How To Stop The Alt-Right

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Fueled by Coffee, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Milo was an interesting phenomenon for the reasons you state. A weird kind of all in one ringer. I don't know what else he could have done to be more invulnerable to common leftist tactics. Well, they only have that one tactic really, assigning a derisive label to everyone who doesn't buy their shit. What I can't get over is how they resurrect so many old fashioned concepts. Neo-Nazi is probably the most humorous. That whole "movement" petered out what, 20 years ago?

    And look at the new life breathed into the infamous KKK. Even though they basically did nothing that was expected of them during the Obama administration. Why IS that? Well, if you read their shit on SF (I won't say the full name of the site here) they are convinced that Obama was what the American people needed. They seemed to know that race would be Obama's cornerstone. They saw it as a form of punishment that America needed in spades to return to "normal" (I'm paraphrasing). One thing is for certain though, the people on that site are convinced the US government is their enemy. So they're not going to do anyone in the US any "favors".

    Really though, if we did actually have a "white supremacist" problem, don't you think they would have taken advantage of all the riots we've had recently? I mean, talk about a target-rich environment. And with all the confusion it would just seem like gangs settling old scores. As it is the really weird deaths of black guys found with a bullet in their head while sitting in a burning car seemed to be people who were critical of Black Lives Matter. That's pretty weird.

    One thing I am sure of though is that when we're not in the middle of a ration of economic distress, we all seem to get along better.
     
  2. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Attacks by Trump supporters: a case study

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fg1OfH018
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Eyes

    OK let’s get this straight – many on the alt-right publish openly racist sexist bigoted stuff and you think that is OK because you consider some articles published by ‘left wing sources’ as racist or sexist?

    But then you then give examples that when read don’t seem to back up what you say. They don’t come across as ‘hate’ pieces I mean a couple are definitely tongue in cheek, and it should be noted that the person that was stupid enough to post #killallwhitemen was charged by the British police force with sending a threatening communication (although the case was later dropped). The thing is that there doesn’t seem to be equivalence between something that claims black people are less intelligent than whites and the articles you link to and if you want that discussion I’m happy to oblige.

    *


    So EVERY Back Lives Matters event resulted in this? No, of course not, so why are you implying it?


    So ALL the people that support BLM are out there trying to kill cops? Againof course not so why are you trying to imply it?

    You bemoan at length about how ‘lefties’ stereotype the right wing then preside to blatant claim anyone that opposes your views as rioters and cop killers, way to go man.

    *



    Is the person you choose Dave Chappelle an alt-right comedian he doesn’t seem to be, sorry but can you give an example of an alt-right comedian that you think of as funny?


    LOL I didn’t say there is a current fundamentalist christian regime, I asked you if you think atheist’s would fare any better under one? By their very nature fundamentalist regimes (secular or religious) are intolerant – one of the main themes in the history of political thought is in trying to make sure such groups don’t get hold of power. The US constitution was written with one eye on the past religious wars in Europe and the sectarian violence and atrocities it resulted in.


    Yep freedom to worship what religion I want, but I don’t have a religion.

    Now some have argued that -‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof’ - would cover atheists BUT others point out that it could be twisted to prohibit them, I mean just look at how the second amendment is interpreted by differing groups.
     
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    To quote your very words - The Brexit remain group demonized the leave campaign as racists.

    Not some remains not a few remainers but the whole REMAIN GROUP

    I repeat the fact was there were open white supremacy type racists on the leave side – one leftie leave supporting MP was murdered by one such racist (and Nazis fan) but there were many more, to try and claim there wasn’t is frankly to live in cloud coo coo land.

    But that is not to say ALL those wanting to leave were racists I know many people who voted to leave I even have family ties with some.


    And to repeat - there were open white supremacy type racist supporting Trump to claim otherwise is to reject reality – but that doesn’t mean all Trumpets were racists.


    But that doesn’t mean there are not racists in the world or in UK or US society are you saying those type of people shouldn’t be challenged?


    That’s fine with me but that doesn’t seem to be what you are arguing for you seem to be saying ‘lefties’ should not call out alt-right on things they disagree with - that lefties call anyone they disagree with ‘racists’ so when they do say something is racist they shouldn’t be believed.

    But what if it is racist?
     
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  5. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    As I’ve said before Milo Yiannopolous comes across as dick – as one of those rich kids that are in it for the fame.

    But remember right wing libertarianism on the whole doesn’t care about homosexuality, religion, race, or sex. That doesn’t mean it’s supportive it just doesn’t care, is not for it or against it. Basically if say an employer wants to discriminate against someone because of their sexuality, sex, race or religion that is up to the employer, as a philosophy it doesn’t care.

    Nationalists Libertarianism of which the alt-right is a part, are similar, but have taken it a step further in saying that since they ‘don’t care’ others shouldn’t care, they should have the liberty to say what they want about sexuality, sex, race or religion and should not be challenged on that and get upset if they are reverting to calling others racist or over sensitive or not being ‘realists’.

    Classic misdirection.
     
  6. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    After reading through the majority of the first 3 pages of this thread I conclude that a few of you think the Alt-Right is somehow "ok". I don't think it's ok at all, so to me this is discouraging. Let's dumb it down a little bit so that we can really understand what we are talking about. First off the Alt-Right is bad. Nationalism is an excuse to be racist. The idea of "white-nationalism" is scary because it leads you to some really ugly conclusions about what's to be done next. Has Donald Trump aligned himself with the Alt-Right? Is Donald Trump making a statement about the sovereignty of the United States? What are the sovereignty issues of the United States? I think what no one's saying is there is animosity towards immigrants in the United States. We share a border with Mexico, and no one is talking about it, but President-Elect Trump plans on building a wall there. Who says there is no connection? :) Don't be silly.

    I think that the Alt-Right is the problem. The answer to the problem is progressive action, and it doesn't seem like that's going to be one of the themes during this administration's time in office.
     
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  7. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    These are complicated points. There's nearly a dozen different kinds of nationalism. And few of them have anything to do with racism. I suspect the issue has become polarized for political expediency as opposed to actual causation. Even the opposition to Trump is morphing into its own kind of nationalism (Risorgimento) and aside from all the hatred of white people associated with it, I don't think it's specifically racial in nature. I know that seems like a conflicted perspective, but it's the result of confusing messages. What we don't have in the US is ethno-nationalism of the sort practiced by Japan to this day, by Greece up to the 50s and in parts of south America.

    If anything liberal nationalism would probably be closer to the American ideal.

    White Nationalism is a pipe dream concocted by Don Black, David Duke and a couple of others who are no longer living. Their biggest website boasts 200,000 members worldwide (though most are in the US). But when you drill it down, it appears to be a garage operation with a huge list of members going back to 1995 though most of the accounts have been dormant for many years. I would call it a hoax if not for the longevity of their movement. But the fact they have not been dragged into court and bankrupted like the KKK also makes me wonder if they are just a kind of paid opposition.

    They run the site from West Palm Beach, Limbaugh territory. Most of the losers who claim to be "white nationalists" are blue collar or no collar workers with a thin educational profile. They have no financial backing and can barely keep their web site up with donations. It's amazing to me that they can pull in $8,000 a month, but consider what that money is NOT buying. I say let them rant, let them display their stupid flags and let hold their marches in peace. Let them expose themselves and their expired message.

    So we can more readily see who they are. And avoid them.
     
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  8. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    To begin with we need to get rid of the politically correct term Alt Right.

    They are white supremacists and worse.

     
  9. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    What racist and bigoted sources are you talking about? I provided specific examples of anti-white racism the left tolerates and propagates, so please match me with your sources since you're so happy to oblige.

    I'm not justifying racist sources that blatantly say whites are superior to _______ race. I already explained the separation of that ugly racist <5% who self identify with the alt right from the majority of the alt-right in my OP. Are you trying to justify all the anti-white racism oozing from the social justice left? Because you seem to be conflicted with my question I asked you as to whether you'd prefer identity politics for everybody, or nobody. Answer that question and we can have a reasonable discussion about it.

    All the ones that make the headlines and air-time seem to.

    I don't think ALL supporters of Black Lives Matter are cop killers; some probably wouldn't hurt a fly. I believe a lot of the group's supporters are peaceful and well intentioned, but misinformed if not downright stupid. Seeing how the ideological figure behind Black Lives Matter is Asata Shakur, a convicted cop killer on the FBI's most wanted list, that says a lot. The peaceful supporters of Black Lives Matter are oblivious to the fact that they support segregated "safe spaces" from white people, shut down LGBT rallies, and publicly shame and humiliate their own allies such as Bernie Sanders.

    You didn't ask me to provide an alt-right comedian. You can't change your question after you've already asked it expecting a different answer. It doesn't work like that. I gave you an answer that explained the difference between jokes and insults. Then again, Chappelle is on record sort-of defending Trump, so make what you want of it: http://observer.com/2016/11/dave-chappelle-defends-trump-rips-clinton-shes-not-right-and-we-all-know-it/

    I don't know of any alt-right comedians as I don't follow the comedy scene all that closely. While he isn't exactly a professional comedian, I'll name Milo. He makes me laugh.

    Since there doesn't seem to be any fundamentalist christian regimes today, I guess there's no way to prove it one way or the other. But we do know what happens to atheists in Musilm regimes.

    It may not a religion, but it's a belief all the same. There's a good saying that goes: Atheism is to religion, like bald is to hairstyles. In other words: if hair represents faith in a deity, then atheism represents no hair. However, bald is still a physical appearance, despite having no hair (or no faith in a deity), catch what I'm saying?

    Therefore atheism is still a belief that there isn't any god. Beliefs and religion are very similar entities with a lot of overlap. And an atheist's freedom to believe there is no god is protected by the 1st amendment.

    Then I'll rephrase: many flippant accusations of leavers being racist were ruthelessly thrown around.

    The fact still remains that playing the racist card against those who supported leave, still wasn't very effective. There was a point in time in history when unjustly labeling someone racist could ruin a person or a campaign. But those days are long gone as of 2016.

    The number of true white supremacist gangs have been on the decline for quite some time. The pendulum has swung the other way now that anti-white racism is on the rise.

    What I'm saying is the fringe lunacy erupting from the modern-day left has given rise to the alt-right by much of the things I've listed in post 1. Get rid of identity politics, white shaming, 3rd wave fringe feminism, safe spaces, etc. and make the left great again.
     
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  10. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    This "progressive action" you speak of, drove people away from the left and put the alt right into power.
     
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  11. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    You cited Salon. A website that justifies the existence of the pedophile instincts of Todd Nickerson. 'Nuff said.
     
  12. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Alt-Right is a term of convenience. It reaches the people who aren't readily fooled by talk of "The KKK". It meshes in ways blatant white supremacist (a term created by democrats before they dumped the KKK) kind of talk doesn't. All of it is an artificial construct.

    Think about how flaccid the "Tea Party" actually was when measured in real political terms. Now take roughly 1% of that meaningless gesture and you have the supposedly "Alt-Right". Sure makes me wonder who came up with "Gays for Guns".

    For some reason there's a lot of this political renaming going on. But we're still dealing with the same dried out shiit from the 1920s politically.
     
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Are we still pushing this atheism is a belief thing?

    Atheism is not a belief, it's a rational conclusion based on evidence, or lack thereof, for the existence of an Abrahamic creator God.
    Same as aunicornism is a rational conclusion based on evidence, or lack thereof, for the existence of unicorns.

    If conclusive evidence were to be found for the existence of unicorns, say fossilized bones, or a living example, dis-belief or the lack of belief in unicorns would turn into belief, or acceptance of the fact that unicorns do, or at least at one time have existed.

    Belief in God, or theism, however, is not based on evidence, or lack of evidence. It is a dogmatic (not changeable) acceptance of a concept without proof, or lack of proof, in short, without considering any rational thought at all. There is nothing I can present that will alter your belief in a God. No fact, no example, no logical proof, no scientific finding. Theism is a belief system, atheism is not.
     
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  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Fair enough as far as checking out sources.

    Here's some more that say the same basic thing about the politically correct word, "Alt Right".

    The alt-right isn’t only about white supremacy. It’s about white male supremacy.

    The 'alt-right' and white outrage around the world: An explainer Alt Right: A Primer about the New White Supremacy

    How the alt-right uses internet trolling to confuse you into dismissing its ideology
    And so on...I could go on listing sites that support the fact that the Alt Right is just a politically correct term for Neo Nazism, but why bother.....
     
  15. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    Unsure of how to respond I will first draw your attention to the margin by which Donald Trump did not win the popular vote. Mostly the number we keep hearing is 2 million votes. So progressive action didn't drive people away. In fact many media sources claim that the reason people even voted for President-Elect Trump is because they want change, therefore progressive action. What they don't realize is that what President-Elect Trump is proposing is not really change. It seems to me he would like to revert back to a cruder more primitive form of governance by sort of turning back the clock on our ideals. What appeals to you about Trump? :)
     
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  16. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    The problem with progressives is that they always throw this word "change" and "progress" around, but they never ask according to who? As if a bunch of elitist bureaucrats who masquerade behind the progressive/liberal facade want what's best for them.
     
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  17. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Call atheism whatever you want, as it doesn't really matter much to me. The freedom to be an atheist is still protected by the first amendment regardless .

    So basically what your sources are saying is everything alt-right is synonymous with neo-nazi white nationalism. Do you really believe everyone who identifies as alt-right is a white nationalist? Or voted for Trump this year is a neo nazi? If so, why do you think that?
     
  18. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    I think you're right. When I said progressive action and change I should have said some other thing. I just threw it out there like it doesn't mean anything at all! :) My bad. I think what I'm trying to show though is a view of President-Elect Trump's cabinet and plans as somewhat sinister. It's not very hard to imagine some worst case scenarios coming true! I don't know if there will be a wall, or what it will accomplish, but I can picture a gestapo style police force (the very thing the media has said will not happen [I'd like to believe them...]) going after illegal immigrants and most of America looking the other way. That's dehumanizing and it must be addressed in my honest opinion. But it hasn't happened yet.

    Anyway I'm sorry if my use of those terms was politically incorrect or thoughtless. Looking back on my usage of them I would tend to agree with you.
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Exactly.

    Did you read the articles?

    The Alt Right has different aspects, the main one being white supremacism.
    It also has elements of sexism, extreme nationalism, Christian fundamentalism, anti Enlightenment, and some are anti Semantic (many support Jews, but only in their own country, Israel).

    Yes, anyone who supports the Alt Right and takes the time to understand their values, reads their material, or supports their web sites is a white supremacist.

    Everyone who voted for Trump is not a neo Nazi, many were duped by a con man.
     
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  20. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    "White nationalist" might be a better term. Steve Bannon recently explained in Breitbart : “Our definition of the alt-right is younger people who are anti-globalists, very nationalist, terribly anti-establishment.”http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/19/bannon-alt-right-young-anti-globalist-anti-establishment-nationalist/ According to Alt Right propagandists Allum Bokhari and Milo Yiannopolous, they include "Isolationists, pro-Russians and ex-Ron Paul supporters", as welll as the anit-femminist "manosphere", "the neoreactionaries, also known as #NRx.", and tribalist white "natural conservatives", etc, etc. . http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/ We mustn't forget Richard Spencer leading his fellow white supremacist Anti-Semites in a "Hail Trump" stiff-armed salute. "One wonders if these people (Jews) are people at all" said Spencer," or instead soulless golem animated by some dark power to repeat whatever talking point John Oliver stated the night before." I'm sure he and the Jewish staffers might find it awkward to get together socially, but they both played their historical roles in getting our future Grifter in Chief elected. Bannon may disown them, but they haven't disowned Trump yet. The traditional mainstream conservatives at National Review characterize them (in Bokhari and Yiannopolous' words), as "bitter members of the white working-class who worship “father-Führer” Donald Trump. How unkind, but true of many. Hillary's unfortunate term "basket of deplorables" was politically incorrect, but not too far off the mark. And now they see their opportunity to come out and play. Hope they don't meet the same fate as Ernst Röhm and his the Brown Shirts, the band of assorted misfits and losers who were Hitler's shock troops until he turned on them in the "Night of the Long Knives".
     

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