How To Stop The Alt-Right

Second ammendment is the answer...kill them all

 

Pen

Oh you are so witty and clever. Your words are once again so insightful and intelligent, oh you really do spoil use with your presence.

 

But the left does have control of academia, hollywood, the media, pop culture, and silicone valley. They've run it for years. How are they not the epitome of the establishment?


Luckily conservative libertarianism is the new counterculture. And the left has lost the monopoly on cool it had for several decades. Leftism is the new puritanism. They are strict on microaggressions, use thier obsession of political correctness as a weapon to find any way they can to depict the opposition as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. They have proven to be anti-free speech and use violence as a means to silence it.

I'm not the one dividing the hispanic whites from all the different shades of whiteness from each other, that was you.

You've been the one defending race baiting and dividing socioeconomic status since by skin color this thread began. We can examine the plight of the poorest in our country without injecting race into it and turning this into another round of the Oppression Olympics.

This whole thread has been about the way the neo-puritan left is losing the culture war and what they can do to come back from the dead. Having MTV make videos about how white people are the cause of every problem in western civilization, will not help your cause. Do you wanna beat me in an argument, or do you want the left to start winning again?

 

The Koch brothers, the Mercers, Trump, his Cabinet, and the other gazillionaires are the real establishment. Their propaganda has been successful in diverting attention from the economic and political establishment and focusing attention on the cultural elites. Bannon and Milo are their propagandists. They focus on the excesses of a few negative examples, demonize them, and present them as the cause of our problems. We all know professors, movie stars, TV personalities, etc., who are flakes or assholes, but so are Milo and Bannon. The "new counterculture" of disaffected misfits and losers have had their fifteen minutes, and will be thrown under the bus when they cease to be useful to the real establishment. Lumpen proletarians of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your brains!

 

The special perk to express themselves how they want, listen to what music they want, dress into whatever garb they want, play whatever video game they want, have as many black friends (or lack of) as they want, say whatever crude joke they want, take on whatever hobby they want, and not be vilified as sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, or a white supremacist. Today, every other group is sheltered by the shield of political correctness. That is of course until anyone who isn't a straight white male has the "wrong opinion" because they are then subject to the worst kinds of racism, sexism, and transphobia. It's very telling how Caitlin Jenner herself says it was harder to come out as a conservative than it was to come out as a transgender. Or how there's a left wing conspiracy going around that Milo Yiannopolous isn't really gay, or that Blaire White isn't really a trans woman. Also, CNN's Mark Lamont called all non liberal blacks who voted for Trump "mediocre negros" and this is perfectly acceptable.

 

That was directed at Balbus. I never knew what your ethnicity was, therefore I never accused you of white guilt.

If you believe fighting social justice is a good thing, why have any opposition for identity politics for everybody? As it currently stands, it's a stacked deck against straight white men. And preserving this is not a battle worth fighting. Netflix just released a trailer for it's new series "Dear White People" and it was met with nearly a million down-votes in a few short days. Even the writer of the show has a documented tweet that says "Fuck White People!" Have you seen the trailer? I won't provide a link to it, but it sums up everything that's wrong with present-day identity politics and race baiting of the neo-puritan left.

I like to compare the modern-day left to the establishment-right back in the '70s when the right wing rallied and protested against the Sex Pistols because they thought their music was offensive. Or the right wing of the '50s who made bonfires out of vinyl records of the new Rock'n'Roll music that was born in that time, because they thought that was offensive. But these temper-tantrums thrown by the right wingers of yesteryear made Rock'n'Roll and the Sex Pistols more taboo, more avant garde, and therefore more counterculture. And today we are seeing the same thing happen in reverse: After the Berkley riots, Milo's book sales soared up to 12000% overnight. It was already on the top of the Amazon best seller list, because the left had a temper tantrum to try to boycott the publishing company and wrote countless smear articles about it. His twitter ban made him more counter-culture. Your puritanical persecution of Milo has turned him into a rock star.

 

Poor persecuted Milo, so misunderstood. He's an ideological "bombthrower" whose own hateful rhetoric and vicious personal attacks on others draws attack, as he intendeds it to do. It gets him attention. It's money in the bank for him. I don't see a principled "libertarian" here; I see a shock jock. "Rock star" is a good analogy. He uses sensationalism and shock to attract crowds of the same type who swooned over Twisted Sister, Alice Cooper, and Boy George back in the eighties. The Sex Pistols? Is that what you admire ? They were degenerate but at least weren't political demagogues, which Milo has become. And punk is passe. We've moved on. That's what happens to sensational fads.

 

Also

Milo writes for what is going to amount to the mouthpiece of the current administration during the next 4 years

He isnt some rebellious anti establishment libertarian hero. He is a lackey for the new establishment

 

If we could crack that one, a lot of problems across the board would be much easier to resolve. I think the problem is one with roots deep in human psychology. In short it really comes down to people not wanting to admit they are wrong, or that they might be fallible and even credulous. Even worse is when it's their 'tribe' that's concerned.

One of my underlying worries is that it's only some kind of big shock to the collective that could shake people up enough that they seriously question their ideas or beliefs. And that could be very messy indeed. Climate disaster, economic collapse or even war are the kind of shocks I mean. And I hope that some other way can be found.

Trying to argue it out with those whose minds are already made up and closed gets nowhere. In a post-truth world, it's useless to try to point to real facts. So really I agree, this is a hard question.

 

So straight white males are being discriminated against because they feel inhibited about telling racists jokes, denigrating women, attacking gays or Muslims, wearing a swastika, or flying the Confederate flag? Aw, poor snowflakes.There's a big difference between being vilified for race, religion, ethnicity or gender and being criticized for hateful speech or conduct. Back in the day, they could get away with using the "N word" to put down African-Americans, or calling gays "fags" or women "cunts". SWMs still have the right to engage in it, of course, but they don't have the right to keep others from criticizing them for it. And why should they? Those words were, and are, used to keep women and minorities in their place. And the courts draw a distinction between "protected speech" and "obscenity" and "fighting words".

Let me make clear that I think racism of any color or description is never okay. Same goes for misogyny, misandry, or hatred of anybody for their religion.

 

This is true, in my honest opinion.

 

The real shame about this is that ALL straight white men are being tarred with this broad brush. Why alienate all of them when the problem is only a subset of the population of straight white men? Even calling them out as "males" in this way is demeaning in a Discovery channel kind of way. And dehumanizing a group is an old propaganda technique. People like Goebbels used it to horrifying effect, so why use it now?

"Back in the day" was a very long time ago, even an old white man like me never adopted that sort of bigotry and I see far less of it among millennial white men. So why label them all with this? Doesn't it make more sense to call out the specific people and groups who do this sort of shit in the real world as opposed to assuming that all straight white men. From my own perspective, living in Atlanta, I just don't see this much, and yet, it's automatically assumed I should be mired in it.

Calling out all of the straight white men for this is as trite as assuming all straight Hispanic men are prone to the same stereotype. At some point we have to dial back the hate, it won't go away on its own, people have to want it to go away.

 

Are these rhetorical questions? Is there someone you're trying to convince? There is a minority who may blame ALL straight white men for shit, and they're wrong. You seem to be arguing that it would make sense not to stereotype white men and blame them all for the sins of some. I agree. I take responsibility only for my own shit--not what my ancestors or somebody who may look like me did. I happen to be part part Chickasaw--but the Chickasaws fought on the side of the Confederacy in the Civil War and owned slaves. I could feel guilty about that if I put my mind to it, but I don't, cuz it was before my time and I had nothing to do with it. "Back in the day" isn't all that long ago around here. Living in Oklahoma, it's not uncommon to encounter casual racist, sexist and anti-Muslim sentiments, see Confederate flags displayed, and hear remarks about "fags"--but mainly in all white male group settings where the guys assume everybody agrees with them. I have a sense that the political correctness, misandry, anti-white male stuff you're concerned about, which I don't encounter, is largely a phenomenon of college campuses or some ultra-liberal media. In other words, I think it's exaggerated--maybe on purpose--to arouse anger and resentment. No need to accept it. The question is , what are we gonna do about it? I don't see anything Trump can or has said he would do anything about it. But I think you should stand up for your rights.

 

I find it nothing less than bizarre that there are people that deny that racism and bigotry exist, particularly here in the south. I see it here on the forums all the way to PA.

There are those that deny the KKK exists as well as White Supremacists. If I didn't find these groups and the people that support them so repugnant, I'd find it funny to be so intentionally obtuse or naive to choose not to believe these truths.

All of those that deny white supremacy exists, ask Dylan Roof .... the young sociopath that shot up the church in Charleston in hopes of beginning a race war, something he had no problem discussing with the media.

Even in the metropolitan city of Atlanta, with its Gay Pride parades and etc etc, there is much racism and bigotry of all types. I can assure anybody that the "non existant" KKK as well as bigotry in all its forms is alive and well in SC. In fact, the "good ole boy system" seems to be active all across the US...but then I watch news, read and am a "people watcher AND listener".

oh - and the "good ole boy system" IS a white good ole' boy system, and if there are any boundaries to this "system", I'm not aware of where they are. Perhaps the boundaries are the same boundaries of the US.

As far as how to "stop the alt-right"....I don't think they can be stopped. They have their own (strange) news sites, their own sources (which of course aren't available to anybody that isn't one of them) and it has been proven anybody with some money can publish whatever. They aren't interested in facts - such as past history or science. They are, or seem to be, ONLY interested in what they want to push at the moment.

From all observable indications, Trump couldn't care less about all of this, and why should he? lol...part of his base constituency consists of the "good ole' boys", bigots and racists.

 

I wouldn't say there are no people who call themselves KKK, only that they're irrelevant. They consist of disconnected groups of kooks who can't assemble a dozen people for a rally.

I've encountered all forms of crony politics, the "good ole boy" phenomenon is not unknown to me, but it's not race-restricted at all, particularly in Atlanta where the black leadership has been playing games like that for decades now. The Atlanta public schools fiasco was a product of that. And the city is presently mired in a bribery investigation that the mayor is trying to delay by submitting requested records on paper, over a million documents.

I think we all know that power can corrupt people, usually the ones who seek it the most. To suggest it only corrupts a particular race is not realistic.

 

We've been over this already. There's is a huge difference between political correctness and ethics.

Ethics is how we as a diverse society politely navigate one another as we are all from different beliefs, values, norms, ethnicities, sexual preferences, socioeconomic statuses, and culture in order to negotiate our way through business and life.

Political correctness is an organized system of lying to spare the feelings of delicate snowflakes at the expense of reason and truth. Political correctness at it's worse can be deadly; it prevented the neighbors of the San Bernardino shooters from reporting their suspicious activity to the police. Because they did not wanna be islamaphobic. Political correctness is what stopped the police from stopping the rape of 1400 women in Rotherham over the course of 10 years. Because of the fear of being xenophobic. Political correctness is an organized system of lying to exaggerate protecting the delegate feelings of some, at the expense of logic, reason, truth, and even safety of the rest of us.

Do you think it should be ok to ban the criticism of Islam? Ban the swastika or the confederate flag to protect the feelings of delicate wallflowers? Beyoncé and establishment feminists spent millions of dollars on a campaign to ban the word Bossy. Should we throw mean words into the new list of offensive cuss words too?

 

Leftism is passé, and like all fads we've moved on. Generation Z has been surveyed to be the most conservative generation since the Silent Generation. This is because they're rebelling to the establishment lecturing them about gender studies, political correctness, microaggressions and safe spaces. Vilifying western society, colonialism, and being a white male (god forbid). The upcoming generation is abandoning leftism in droves because it has devolved into a joyless authoritarian form of Puritanism.

 

Not at all. I even said so. "SWMs still have the right to engage in it, of course, but they don't have the right to keep others from criticizing them for it." Should we ban people or words that criticize these poor sensitive straight white dudes of the Alt Right? Should Beyoncé be prohibited from spending her money on absurd campaigns when the Koch Brothers aren't restricted in spending theirs? Should we throw mean words used against Straight white men into a list of offensive cuss words? If not, what action would you take to deal with the problem you're so riled up about? As I see it, the institutional support for political correctness is businesses that are risk averse to anything that might offend customers or employees, and colleges and universities that are in a similar position toward donors and students who raise a fuss. Your legitimate beef is with them, and you have to reach them in away that gets to their risk aversion. Do you think Trump will do anything about it? If so, what? The price of free speech that you purport to value is that other people talk back.

 

Do you have polls or facts to back that up? Looks like the trend among young people is progressive.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-have-another-major-demographic-issue-on-their-hands/2014/03/09/398deb46-a79d-11e3-8599-ce7295b6851c_story.html?utm_term=.a4663dcac066
It was young people who rallied to Bernie.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-walshs-washington/2016/02/19/young-people-favor-bernie-sanders-socialism
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/02/bernie-sanders-democratic-presidential-primary-young-people-millenials/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-bernie-sanders-anxious-millennials-find-a-candidate-who-speaks-to-them/2015/10/27/923d0b74-66cc-11e5-9223-70cb36460919_story.html?utm_term=.ac312e059604
The Trump base demographic is lower educated old white guys. Is it concern about political correctness that gets them stirred up? I don't think so. It's jobs. immigrants, and Muslims.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-bernie-sanders-anxious-millennials-find-a-candidate-who-speaks-to-them/2015/10/27/923d0b74-66cc-11e5-9223-70cb36460919_story.html?utm_term=.ac312e059604
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

 

[SIZE=11pt]Bill [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The traditional play for regimes that become unpopular is to start a war (and win one).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]An example well known to the British is the Falklands/Malvinas conflict. The unpopular Galtieri government hoped to rally the people and divert public attention away from Argentina’s chronic social and economic problems by seizing the Falklands. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Now before the war opinion polls showed that Margret Thatcher was the most unpopular Prime Minister ever. After British forces won the Falklands war, her popularity soared, allowing her to call a general election in 1983 which she won by a landslide. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I think if Trump carries on as he is his popularity will fall, rather than coming across more as a prat than decisive, and although the hardcore might stick by him others seem to be getting nervous. And the full import of Republican policies hasn’t hit home yet the unforeseen consequences (or at least from supporters) will become clear. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]So my fear is that if support does drift away at some point…. [/SIZE]

Yes the hardest, I see the things happening in the Trump admin and just wonder what Trump supporters would have said if they had happened under a democratic admin (a Hillary admin). A Presidential employees advertising the President’s daughters cloths line? Security briefing at a public restaurant? Lying national security advisers etc etc.

I mean this must be seeping into the bubble…