How To Get To Heaven When You Die

I said the NT Not the OT:

NT meaning New Testament
and OT meaning Old Testament

Leviticus and Exodus are part of the Old Testament.-You're calling Jews insane.

 

Amazingly enough, you claim that you worship the same god as the one whose words are recorded in the OT. That obviously evil deity, who has done more harm than good, who has caused his own favored people to suffer greatly because they didn't slavishly obey his every dictate is the one you refer to as "the Father," no? You give that thing your adulation? Why? You still follow some of those laws, do you not (I seem to recall an earlier post where you quoted one of the ten commandments). How is it that you can pick and choose among the OT dictates, which to follow and which to ignore? Didn't you say you were to OBEY the WORD? Are those laws not a part of the WORD?

I SAY REPENT! Do not follow that god, for it is an evil presence that will decieve you and cause you to make war on others who don't believe as you are told to. That is the same deity who shows up at the end of the book and orders the death of everyone who doesn't follow the rituals outlined in your book. It is a monster, and it is insanity to give such a creature your worship.

 

you heard it here flks strait from ryu's keyboard...Levi doesnt apply to christains cause its in the OT- so paul had nothign to base his letters on in Romans

i do believe thats what i was getting at earlier, but yeah, i agree, thats why i dont see much of the OT applying, specially Levi's Law...id say the commandments still apply, cause during the sermon on the mount, thats one of the main teachings, the revision of the commandments

nothing against yeah though ryu

 

Christians don't need to obey the old Testament, eventhough many still do, this doesn't, however, include stoning people to death, since Jesus changed that. The things he changed ar not practiced anymore.

 

Don't tell me, tell your fellow Christians. Tell them to stop forcing their religion down the throats of others. Tell them that it's wrong to cause angush to the grieveing by waving signs claiming their loved one is in hell. Tell them it's wrong to continue the imperialist conquest of other nations which are not predominantely Christian. Tell them it's wrong to force Christian morality on a secular nation full of people of varying faiths (especially when that morality is hurtful and discriminatory). Tell them to stop ruining this beautiful world simply because they believe it will end soon. Tell them that they have no right to harm others by action or by inaction simply because those others don't follow the same rituals and dogma that you do.

Do that and you will be like the savior you claim to love and follow. Do not, by standing idly by while others corrupt his words and use his message to do evil, and you will most assuredly be dishonoring the message he gave you.

 

Leviticus is NT... aint it?

 

no.
Leviticus is as old testament as it gets...in fact, it's one of the books Moses wrote!

 

It doesn't say anything against those things. Only killing is forbidden. In Fact, the Bible says:

10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
Mark 13:10
NKJV

And we're not doing this to harm or annoy you, in fact we're doing this out of love, because we care about your salvation.
It's often ignored the good we do. Christian ministries are, in general, the ones who do most of the fighting against hunger, building schools, building orphanages, etc.etc.

It's all about love, not ignorance or evilness. We just don't want you to go to hell:


And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
John 3:14-21
NKJV

 

I'm not pushing false views, these are my actual views. If it offends you that I have actual views, I'm sorry for you. This is a free speech forum, you are going to be offended a lot, I'm afraid. I have every right to express my feelings, that's what freedom of expression is all about.

I'm curious about which of my feelings hurt your feelings. Was it my feelings concerning how annoying people who close their minds to facts simply because they don't agree with what their religion has taught them about the world are? Was it my feeling that intelligence isn't measured by financial success? Was it my feeling that the most vocal and politically active group of people calling themselves Christians are dangerous and will do great harm to the rest of the world if they are not stopped?

I'll bet that it was my feeling of glee when I pointed out that you don't understand how to construct a strong argument that will hold up to criticism. It's the debater in me. It goes with the territory, I'm afraid. I won't stop, though. You will simply have to get better at constructing your arguments so that I cant tear them apart so easily.

 

To preach is one thing. It's a bit annoying, but you have every right to preach. To do good works is commendable. But to force others to bow to your beliefs is another - to legislate them into law so all people must follow your gods morality is just wrong. To make war on other nations in the name of your god is a terrible crime. To wantonly rape the planet and rain down nuclear waste (like those depleated uranium cased shells which are littering Iraq and causing all sorts of birth defects in children there as well as giving radiation poisoning to the U.S. soldiers who use them) because you don't think it will last very long anyway is immoral. And if your bible says that you should do this, then it is evil.

 

Like I said, those aren't Christians, it's quite obvious. But since Satan likes deceiving people, that's what many people falsefully think Christians are. He goes: look at what they're doing, do you want to be part of such a ludacrous belief? Christians are only evil!

Then Satan blinds people off seing what Christians (not posers) actually do, he blinds people off seeing the hunger we fight, the orphanages we build, the schools we build, etc. etc...

The New Testament, I repeat, does not support killing, in fact, people who do so, and don't repent, shall find themselves in the lake of fire...

Or have you found a scripture in the NT that supports killing?

 

That same Jesus who was sentenced to stoning under OT law!!

 

XFRODOBAGGINSX Good Job on this post. Well If these people are gunna be jackass's and make fun of God...well just think when we are in heaven singing glory to God they will be burning in hell and wondering why didnt i believe.. haha

 

Yeah, satan is supposed to be the rgeat deciever and all that, so what's to make you believe you aren't being decieved? I mean, seriously, just imagine the whole bible thing with god and satan reversed. Of course I'm sure you'll automatically dismiss such, but that would work pretty good for atan no? Pretty great deception I'd say.

 

So this quote basically says that I am condemned because I don't believe in the name of that evil creatures son? I know and understand more about that name than you do. To begin with, the name listed in the bible is not that persons actual name. How am I supposed to believe in a name I have never seen, heard, nor read? How are you? By this quote, you are condemned as well. I recognize the name the book given to the one called "the son." It's Greek (though that persons actual name would have been in Aramaic, or possibly Hebrew since those were the languages of his parents. If I recognize the Hebrew translation of the Greek name, which would be Yeshuha as having the Cabalistic meaning "god made flesh" does that mean I won't be condemned?

Secondly, I find the thought that light has come into the world a rather soft method of condemnation. Personally, I like light. I like darkness too, but not because it hides any evil I do, only because it's a different way to experience this beautiful world. So are the blind, who basically live in perpetual darkness all evil?

Since I do not hate the light, then according to your book, I am not evil. Yet I refuse to pay homage to that foul creature you call "the father."

Another falsity in that quote is that my coming to the light so that my deeds can be seen means that they have been done in your god (that would be "the father" again - and I want nothing to do with him). Yet I stand in the light and do not fear it.

I suppose you'd like to claim that only your idea of what "the light" means counts. You have an interpretation for these words - where does this interperetation come from? All Christians do not interperet these words as you do, you know. Somewhere in the book the messiah says something like "I am the light." Does he mean all forms of light or just one secret one that only his believers can see? He also said "I am the door." Was he a door? He said "I am the vine." Was he a vine?

If I do not believe in your god, that doesn't make me evil, yet your quote claims that I am. What evil have I done? Blasphemed your god? Your god has done great evil, I speak only the truth. How can my speaking the truth be evil? Your quote says "he who does the truth comes to light." So that puts me in the light, minus your god. I am morally superior to your genocidal god (though perhaps not quite so when compared to his son), why would I worship him?


Here's a bit of trivia... Moses was a worshipper of an Egyptian god called Aten. When he led the Hebrews out of Egypt, he converted them all (at the time they were polytheists, worshipping many gods - Elohim is actually a plural and included such deities as Baal and Ashtoreth) to monotheism, under his god, and simply connected it with the name of a Hebrew deity called YHVH. Not even the same deity whom Abraham made the covenant with, who was called El.

 

well i personally dont agree with some of the Christain efforts, mainly cause it goes along the lines of

"We will build all this stuff, as well as a church, then we'll tell you your going to hell so you go to church"

i think the real test of good deeds is doing it no strings attached, Jesus never said to anyone he healed to tell otehrs to follow Him. In fact, He told the lepor to tell no one, but he disobeyed Jesus.

 

Christianity is like inmates in an assylum saying "unless you become like us, you can't enter our specially reserved haven! ~ you're mad if you don't!"
Er, Thank you no.

 

How non-judgemental of you.

It says in your bible that only your god can judge, hypocrite. I'll be seeing you in hell.

 

the only thing i really see thats horrible about that post is the little "...haha" at the end, that just makes you sound like an ass

 

For the record, I have never meant that such evil was being done my all Christians. I applaud the efforts of Christians and other groups around the world who are working to help others. I have been a part of such charitable organizations, and I've given money to them when I was unable to personally participate (a pagan organization I am affilliated with actually goes door to door to collect cans and such for a local Christian-sponsored food drive - we imagine them pouring holy water on our gifts to remove the taint of our non-christian gods ). I find is somewhat bothersome, though that such charity always seems to come with a slice of brainwashing on the side, "Here is some food and clothing for you poor heathens, but first have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord ans savior? Let me just preach His gospel to you for a while..."; "Oh before we eat we have to pray and give thanks to God..." of course they will pray with you, but only because of the charity. Is that necessary? Other groups manage to provide help to the needy without making them participate in religious rituals which are alien to them.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (NKJV)

But that's Paul, whom I'm pretty certain did his very best to destroy the original intent of your saviour's message... either that or he was just plain insane.

But then there's this:

John 15:5-6 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.(NKJV)

Perhaps I'm simply reading these verses wrong, but it seems to me that he advocates burning non-believers in this passage. I might have mistaken it for a warning about the fires of hell, but the words "and men gather them" leads me to believe that he expects his followers to do this.

Now here's where the Christians get their god to do their killing for them - through the use of men:

Revelation 6:3-4 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come *and see." Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

And finally:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Basically, here your god sentances EVERYONE (note how he throws the unbelieving in with murderers and pimps) who refuses to worship him to burn. Such threats are the proof that this god is a killer of innocents and not worthy of worship. His jealousy of those who will not bow to him is proof of his imperfection. Sure, the evil are punished, but the good are punished along side them simply because they won't worship such a heinous god. I'm particularly impressed by the hypocracy of this little god, who's first covenant was made with Abraham, who was fearful and who traded the sexual servicies of his own wife for security (i.e. he was a pimp) - yet now he sentances those others who behaved in a similar manner to eternal suffering.

So as your bible claims, we don't need to do anything evil to be sentenced to the lake of fire. He intends to punish us for not being his worshippers. This makes him a tyrant. And those who give him their worship, yet have committed horrible acts previously, will be allowed to live in a paradise. This god has a lot in common with Stalin, I think. And I'd rather burn eternally than submit my will to such a petty, evil being. I live my life rightly, as I've said before, and the right way to live is not to submit to tyrants.