How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Not Speaking in tongues does not mean that a person doesn't possess the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues does not mean that a person possesses the Holy Spirit. I am very skeptical about tongues. I possess the Holy Spirit and I have NEVER spoken in tongues and I doubt that I ever will at least on this earth. Yet I know 100% that I am a child of God and have the Holy Spirit.

This is the fruit of the spirit and tongues is NOT included:

Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Tongues is not proof of anything. It is a gift that is no longer useful today.

 

Epiphany you are the one who is blind. The reason that the theif on the cross didn't go to heaven right away is because, no one could go to heaven until Jesus Christ presented His blood to the Father as a Sacrifice. Are you now trying to say that there are two classes of saved people? Oh boy, I would like to hear this.

Are you trying to tell me that the thief on the cross isn't saved? Please elaberate on what Jesus meant when He said that thou shalt be with me in paradise. I know what I believe on this, what do YOU believe on this?

 

We have NO authority to question God’s ways or to dispute his actions.

Why did God choose blood as the basis for atonement?

Why did God choose water as the element of baptism?

Why did God choose gold as the overlaying metal for the ark of the covenant?

Why did God choose stone as the material upon which the Ten Commandments are recorded?

Why did God choose Jerusalem as the site for the temple?

Why did God chose dust out of which to form mankind?

There is divine purpose behind these choices, although we may not understand all the reasons. We certainly cannot deny or disavow God’s sovereign right to do as He pleases and to choose what he wishes.

One vital reason why God chose other tongues as the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost is that speaking in tongues is an immediate, external evidence. There are many other evidences of the operation of the Spirit in a person’s life, BUT it is a matter of time before they manifest. For example, the fruits of the Spirit that you refer to follows in the wake of the spiritual in filling.

Peter and the six Jewish Christians who went with him to Caesarea knew that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost not because of longsuffering, gentleness, meekness or temperance, but because they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God (Acts 10:46). Peter specifically pointed to speaking in tongues as irrefutable evidence (Acts 10:46-47). Speaking in tongues is an outward, external evidence, instantly observable and heard. By contrast, peace, joy, righteousness, and spiritual fruit are inward, internal results of the in filling that becomes evident with the passing of time.

Another reason why God chose other tongues as the initial sign of receiving the Spirit is that speaking in tongues is a uniform evidence. It applies to everyone, regardless of race, culture or language.

You, (and many others) like to quote 1 Corinthians 12:30 in an attempt to prove that not all speak in tongues when they are filled. However, this verse refers to the, gift of tongues, which is speaking a public message in tongues to be interpreted for the congregation. Though both tongues as the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and tongues as a later spiritual gift are the same in essence, they are different in administration and operation. For example, the regulations regarding the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 did not apply to the conversion account in Acts, where many people spoke in tongues simultaneously, without interpretation, as the sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

In speaking about the birth of the Spirit, Jesus emphasized the uniformity of the experience (which again, is in my Salvation post). "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear it's sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Morever, Jesus placed emphasis upon the accompanying sound, not on sight or feeling which you are trying to do. The sound of the wind blowing is the evidence of it’s presence. Some people conclude that Jess referred only to, "The sound from heaven as of a rushing, mighty wind" on the Day of Pentecost. But this sound of wind is never mentioned again in the later accounts of receiving the Holy Ghost, while speaking in tongues is. Speaking in tongues by itself caused the Jewish Christians to recognize that the experience of the Gentiles at Caesarea was identical to theirs on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 10:44-47, 11:15-17). Hence, the important conclusive evidence of the Spirit’s manifestation at Pentecost was speaking in tongues. The sound of the wind was impersonal, but speaking was personal.

Speaking in tongues symbolizes God’s complete control of the believer. Perhaps this is one of the strongest reasons why God chose tongues as the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This symbolism becomes apparent when studying James 3, which provides more information on the tongue than any other chapter of the New Testament. First, the tongue is capable of defiling the whole body. If so, is it incredible to claim that the tongue is also capable of symbolizing the sanctification of the whole body? I think not. Second, though the tongue is a small member, is has never been tamed by humanity. It is the most unruly member of the body. If so, is it not necessary for the tongue to be tamed before the whole body can be consecrated to God? Notice that James illustrates the importance of tongue by comparing it to a horse’s mouth, which gives the rider complete control over the horse, and to the helm of a large ship, which gives the pilot full command of the vessel. In other words, whomever controls the tongue of a person, controls him. A person cannot tame his tongue by himself, only God can tame it for him. When God tames a person’s tongue, that person comes under God’s full control.

The tongue is humanities greatest expression. The ability and power to coordinate thought and tongue into intelligent speech is one of our highest prerogatives, elevating us above the beasts of the earth. This ability makes us superior to the rest of God’s earthly creation. In the baptism of the Holy Ghost, our Spirit and his become one. He uses our tongue and voice to express this union, and gives us clear examples of doing so in the Bible.

Jesus Christ said in Mark 16:17-18, that there would be signs which would follow every Believer!! Note that one of the signs is, "they shall speak with new tongues".

Now, those who were filled with the Spirit of Christ in the bible began to speak in tongues, and those who are filled today speak in tongues, fulfilling the word. You have not fulfilled the word. Sorry, but according to the Bible, you do not possess the Spirit. By stating that you are skeptical of tongues, clearly states that you are skeptical of the Bible.

Anything that is of the Lord, Satan wants to destroy. By making you believe that something God gave to his believers is evil, he has you right where he wants you. If you possess the Spirit, that would be blatantly obvious.

Christ is the same yesterday, today and everyday. His gifts never become useless.

Paradise was a part of Hell (a place where the Old Testament followers were held until Jesus died),"Paradise", and "Abraham's Bosom," are the same place. (Luke 16 shows that there is a Abraham’s bosom, Hell and a gulf in between the two).

"In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony." (Luke 16:23-25)

Now, according to, "Christianity's" version of Abraham's bosom being in Heaven, then the rich man would not have seen Abraham nor Lazarus in Hades/Hell.


* This paradise is not to be confused with the, "Paradise of God" where the "Tree of Life" is. (Revelation 2:7)

"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison (The Paradise/Abraham’s bosom) whom disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." (1 Peter 3:18-20)

Jesus died and retrieved the keys of hell (Revelation 1:8).

He did not ascend into Heaven until after having directly spoken to his apostles/disciples, which did not take place until two days later. Therefore, the idea that the thief on the cross and Jesus being together in Heaven on that very day is ludicrous.

The Word tells us that NO ONE can have Salvation without accepting the sacrifice that Jesus did for us on the cross. Salvation is only through Jesus Christ. Therefore, There could be No Salvation until Jesus died on the cross for us, and without salvation, you can not enter Heaven. The theif on the cross did not:
A) Repent of his sins
B) Receive remission of his sin
C) Receive life through the Holy Spirit

In fact, all he said was, "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." (Luke 23:42)

Therefore, If Christ made an acception for him, then he would have to make an exception for everyone, which would put his death in vain and make the entire Bible nothing but a farce.

Furthermore...

"And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also (repentance, baptism, filling of the spirit = salvation plan) - not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 3: 21)

Notice the word, "also". Also meaning that your sins are now in remission upon the symbolic death of water baptism.

You are correct when you say, "as the thief." You do have exactly what the thief on the cross had... lack of salvation (according to the Bible).

 

Actually why don't you quote the entire context. It says:

Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Again, it says he that believeth NOT shall be damned. I believe therefore I am not damned. More proof that baptism does NOT save.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

These signs follow them which what? Believe. Not believe and are baptized. How many devils have YOU cast out? Does that mean that you aren't saved? Tongues DID follow them which believed, but they are now done away with. It is for people with low faith (babes in Christ), such as yourself (if you are saved) who need signs to make them "feel" secure in the faith. They are done away with.

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

How many snakes have you taken up? Does that mean you aren't saved? How many deadly things (poisons) have you drank? NONE. Are all of these things required for salvation now? Not just baptism and faith, but snake handling, tongues, casting out devils, the list just keeps growing with you.

1Co 13:8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. {fail: Gr. vanish away}
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. {done away: Gr. vanish away}
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. {thought: or, reasoned}
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. {darkly: Gr. in a riddle}

Tongues are childish things. When the Word of God was completed, tongues was no longer necessary.

The thief was saved. That is the reason that Jesus said to him

Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Do you really believe that paradise is hell? Jesus said TO DAY shalt thou be with me in PARADISE.

You have been deceived into believing that baptism saves. If you tell me that I am not saved, you will answer to God for it.

Here is the greek word for paradise:

3857. paradeisov paradeisos, par-ad'-i-sos
Search for 3857 in KJV
of Oriental origin (compare 6508); a park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness, "paradise"):--paradise.

 

frodo who would u rather shoot in the face; your own mother or jesus

 

If you believe and you are not baptized, then you are not being obedient to the Lord. The Bible states that those who were not obedient to the Lord (Yet they still BELIEVED in him) in the Old Testament, did not enter into Heaven. In fact, Jesus Christ said that before him, no one had entered into Heaven. In the same way they were disobedient, your lack of obedience by disregarding the command of baptism will result in the same predicament.

Water and Spirit

You claim that water birth is technical, physical birth. However, the Bible states that the physical man cannot enter into Heaven, hence, John 3:5 is speaking of WATER baptism.

Jesus was baptized as an example

Jesus's apostles and disciples were baptized

Jesus's followers were baptized

Why was everyone baptized? Because Christ established baptism for cleansing, not of dirt but of sin as the verse states.

With the logic you are using for the baptism debate, you mine as well state something to the effect of, "You can commit adultery as long as you are saved." Because that is basically what you are saying.

Sorry, but just because you believe that you possess salvation does not mean you can get away with blatantly disregard a command.

At the marriage supper of the Lamb, those who have not washed their robes white in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (by partaking in his death through the cleansing of their sin by baptism) will be turned away. They will say that they believed just as those who partake believe, but they were be turned away for failure to obey the word of the Lord.

Tongues are not done away with because Jesus Christ has not yet established his kingdom on earth.

I am secure in my faith because I have followed the plan of salvation that has been established through Jesus Christ. I have the Spirit of the Lord, and his mercy is abundunt in my life. His Spirit leads and guides me in truth. His Spirit calls me to be a witness and told me spread the news of his plan of Salvation, given in his word.

Apostolic missionaries have been casting out demons in other countries for years upon years. My pastor himself has cast demons out of men before. I can leave you the church phone number if you like.

You are taking the scripture out of context again. The verse is stating, "Do not tempt the Lord your God"(as the Bible says), by deliberately taking up snakes, as some do, or deliberately drinking poison, as some have, but if you are accidentally bitten by a snake, as was the Apostle Paul, (Acts 28:3-6), you will have the protection of God.

Myself and others (more dangerous on their part) have been faced with grave situations (just as a snake bite or poison is) and by the Spirit of the Lord they have been filled with, they were spared by Christ’s mercy, just as Paul and the snake bite.

That which is perfect is the return of Christ. Jesus Christ is perfection personified.

No, Christ has not yet returned to earth. Of course these things shall fail to exist when he does. The Bible is not perfect. Several books are missing impart by the Catholic church and mistranslations.

In claiming that the gifts of the Lord are no longer useful, you attempt to discredit the Bible. God says that we still have speaking in other tongues, Satan says that you do not. It is quite clear which one you believe. You try to discredit these gifts because you yourself do not possess them. Much in the same way children bully, to make themselves feel better.


God says that HE Does Not Change. Therefore, the positions He set forth "in the Church" are still "in the Church" today! [See 1 Corinthians 12:28-31] which includes the "Diversities of tongues". And all of us are Forbidden to stop anyone from speaking in Tongues.

There are so many men today, like yourself, that try to stop everyone from speaking in Tongues, saying that it no longer exist, or trying to stop people by claiming that it is Satanic. Jesus gave warning against this. To claim that the Works of the Holy Spirit is the works of Satan, is to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit. (See Matthew 12:24-32)

Consider, 1 Corinthians 12. Did God give all these gifts, then take back some? If God changes His mind about giving man all of these gifts, then He just might change His mind about letting man have Salvation!

Yet, as the Bible points out, Jesus Christ did not enter into Heaven on that very day! I have showed you the scriptures stating that. The Bible does NOT state that Jesus died and immediately ascended into Heaven. It states that he first went to hell to acquire the keys. He also visited those of the old testament who were in Abraham's bosom. He then spoke with his apostle and disciples. ALL of this took place before he entered into Heaven, two days later, therefore, making it impossible for both him and the thief to have been in Heaven. How could the theif be in Heaven when Jesus Christ did not even enter Heaven at that time himself? This merely proves that you do not even know the Scriptures.

No one said paradise is Hell. You continue you to take what I have said out of context and it is very ignorant.

[

Luke 16:19-31 -The rich man and Lazarus - shows separation of the two parts of Hell.

Bible states that Jesus descended into the inner depths of the earth [Hades] to speak to those whom disobeyed the word of the Lord during the time of Noah and beyond. Abraham and Lazarus were there.

Sorry, but Christ has called me to be a witness to his word. I will not have to answer to the Lord for your lack of obedience, you will.

Again, I never said baptism itself saves. I said that baptism was part of the salvation plan. Do not place words in mouth. For you are only spreading lies in doing so!!! Lying is not the a fruit of the Spirit that you claim to possess.

You believe in Christ, that is great. Even the demons believe.... and they tremble!

 

How to get to heaven when you die?


Can't wait that long. How to get to heaven here and now is a more intereresting question.

 

Translation: Oh my, I see that you have a speck in your eye. Don't mind that great plank sticking out of my own eye, I've grown accustomed to it - In fact I like it there.

 

If you believe and you are not baptized, then you are not being obedient to the Lord. The Bible states that those who were not obedient to the Lord (Yet they still BELIEVED in him) in the Old Testament, did not enter into Heaven. In fact, Jesus Christ said that before him, no one had entered into Heaven. In the same way they were disobedient, your lack of obedience by disregarding the command of baptism will result in the same predicament.

First of all, I HAVE been baptized. Secondly, it didn't save me. It doesn't say that we need to be baptized of water to be saved. It DOES say that we need to be born again. We are born in the Spirit when we believe on Jesus Christ to save us.


Water and Spirit
You claim that water birth is technical, physical birth. However, the Bible states that the physical man cannot enter into Heaven, hence, John 3:5 is speaking of WATER baptism.

Jesus clearly said "that which is flesh is flesh" your flesh is your PHYSICAL part of you. You have to be born in the first place to be saved.

He said "that which is born of Spirit is spirit" That is the part of you that non-physical (spritual)

How many births are there? Jesus was clearly saying

1) There is a fleshly birth.

2) There is a Spritual birth.

1Jo 5:1 ¶ Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God

Look what chapter of the bible this came from?

Jesus was baptized as an example

Was Jesus saved? Yes He was. It's right for a believer to get baptized.


Jesus's apostles and disciples were baptized

So was I. Baptism is a good thing. It does NOT save.
The theif on the cross wasn't and he was saved.


Jesus's followers were baptized

You're right! They were baptized AFTER they were saved. You cannot be filled with the Holy Spirit without being saved. These people were already filled with the Holy Ghost, yet they were not baptized yet.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(KJV)

They were baptized AFTER salvation.

The theif on the cross wasn't baptized and he was saved.

Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

He said "TODAY" not later but today. He said "thou shalt be with ME" with Christ. In "Paradise" a holding place for the righteous. That is where the saint's went before they went to heaven. After Jesus Christ rose from the dead, offered His BLOOD for our sacrifice, they were allowed to go to heaven.

Why was everyone baptized? Because Christ established baptism for cleansing, not of dirt but of sin as the verse states.

Wrong. He was saying not the filth of the flesh, He was referring to a SPIRITUAL baptism by receiving the Holy Spirit. That is the result of a good conceince toward God.


With the logic you are using for the baptism debate, you mine as well state something to the effect of, "You can commit adultery as long as you are saved."

Sin doesn't make one unsaved, baptism doesn't make one saved, salvation is by GRACE (Unearned favor) through faith in Christ. The bible says that it is a gift of God, not of works (when you get a preasent from someone, did you earn it? No you accept it)


Because that is basically what you are saying.
Sorry, but just because you believe that you possess salvation does not mean you can get away with blatantly disregard a command.

So, since you sin every day like everyone else, does that mean that YOU aren't saved because you didn't obey God's command? Baptism IS a command. It is NOT a command for salvation. It is a sin for a believer NOT to be baptized, it is not damning.


At the marriage supper of the Lamb, those who have not washed their robes white in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (by partaking in his death through the cleansing of their sin by baptism) will be turned away. They will say that they believed just as those who partake believe, but they were be turned away for failure to obey the word of the Lord.

No, the robes were washed white as snow by the blood of Jesus Christ. Not some water. It doesn't say that in the bible that baptism washes away sin. It is the blood of Jesus Christ that washes away sin, not water. Water is merely a symbol of the grave. Now you are adding to the bible.

First of all in that same chapter that you love to quote to try and say that baptism saves says this:

1Jo 5:1 ¶ Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God

Being born of God is being saved. We must be born again by believing ON Christ. It is clearly not baptism.

It goes on and says this:

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

No baptism again.


Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Re 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23 ¶ It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
(KJV)



I know many missionaries who cast out demons daily. These people lead thousands to Christ every year and many times the demon manifest before they even start preaching, telling them to go home we don't want you here. The people who said this didn't speak a word of english, yet, in perfect english told them "go home, we don't want you here" They cast the demons out of many of them and bound the rest of them in the name of Jesus Christ. I have dealt with demons on many, many occasions. The name of Christ Jesus is the only way to have victory.

 

The Author's of the old Testament wrote the Bible through the Holy Spirit, yet, again, Jesus said that no one before him was saved and upon his death, he spoke to those in Abraham's bosom, down in Hades. They possessed God's Spirit (obviously if they wrote his word, because we know that the Bible was written through the Spirit), yet, there were not in Heaven at the time. Why were they not in Heaven? Because the Bible states that they failed to obey the Lord.

And again, The Bible states that this place was in Hell. The rich man saw Abraham (not far off... obviously if he was, "not far off", that means he was in a parallel place) and asked for Lazarus to place a drop of water on his tongue. If he was in, "Paradise", the way you claim paradise, he would not need his thirst quenched. However, the Bible states that hell is a place of fire... a place where thirst is never quenched.

Abraham himself says: "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." (Luke 16:26)

Thus, there was a gulf between Abraham's bosom and Hades

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Those who died before Jesus Christ who were in Abraham's bosom. (Matthew 27:52-53)

They were saints, yet, they were not yet in Heaven.

We also know that paradise is not Heaven because if the thief actually went to heaven after his death, God would have shown favoritism to him and his Word teaches that he respects no man above another! (Acts 10:34).

After Jesus rose from the dead.... THREE days later... not, "TODAY". Read the Bible, it's very clearly stated that he did not ascend into Heaven on THAT day! Even an atheist could read a Bible and point that out.

Upon his resurrection, Christ told Mary Magdelene: "...Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" (John 20:17) DID NOT RETURN YET!

I NEVER said, "Filth of the flesh." I said that baptism represents death to the old man and that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was the new man. JUST AS THE BIBLE STATES.

"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body."

He was referring to water baptism AND the baptism of the Holy Spirit!

I never said that sin makes a person unsaved. Not once have I ever made any reference to that notion. I grow weary of correcting your false claims stating things that I HAVE not said. "Baptism alone does not make one saved". No offense, but you need to read what I have written before you respond to it because you keep spreading lies.

False

Water is a symbol of the grave? No.... reallly? That is what I have been saying! I have not added to the Bible, I have QUOTED Scripture.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

Notice it says, "washing of regeneration". That is water baptism, symbolic for death. Washing of reneration AND renewing of the Holy Spirit. Simply believing in Jesus does not wash us, that is why HE told us to be baptized and filled with his Spirit.


[We must be born again by believing ON Christ. It is clearly not baptism.[/QUOTE]
To be born again we must first die! One cannot be BORN AGAIN unless they die. Something cannot be born a second time unless death comes upon it first. That is a very elementary concept.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:3-4)

Baptism = Symbolic of Christ's death. The Bible states it in THAT very passage.

Peter: "Be baptized for the REMISSION of sin." (Acts 2:38)

Again, if you took the time to READ my salvation post, I have already stated this.


Through Scripture we are told that baptism accomplishes something.

1. Baptism identifies us with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
2. Baptism washes away our sin and brings salvation.
3. Baptism clothes us in Christ so that the deeds of the law are no longer needed.

"We know that we have come to know him IF we obey his commands." (1 John 2:3)

 

The Author's of the old Testament wrote the Bible through the Holy Spirit, yet, again, Jesus said that no one before him was saved and upon his death, he spoke to those in Abraham's bosom, down in Hades. They possessed God's Spirit (obviously if they wrote his word, because we know that the Bible was written through the Spirit), yet, there were not in Heaven at the time. Why were they not in Heaven? Because the Bible states that they failed to obey the Lord.

That's such a lie. First of all there were two sides to hades. Paradise and hades. Abraham was in paradise in a location called "Abraham's bosom". You need to read your bible more and stop letting your false church tell you what to believe. Paradise is a place of happiness.

3857. paradeisov paradeisos, par-ad'-i-sos
Search for 3857 in KJV

of Oriental origin (compare 6508); a park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness, "paradise"):--paradise.



Lu 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Abraham was in Paradise. Hell is the heart of the earth. It has two sides, the place of torment and the place of happiness for the saints who died BEFORE Christ's perfect sacrifice had come.

We also know that paradise is not Heaven because if the thief actually went to heaven after his death, God would have shown favoritism to him and his Word teaches that he respects no man above another!

I already know that paradise is not heaven. It was a temporary holding place for the saints who died BEFORE Jesus Christ's perfect sacrifice was given for our sins. Those saints in paradise are now in heaven.

He was referring to water baptism AND the baptism of the Holy Spirit!

No, He was referring to being filled with the Holy Spirit and NOT water baptism. That's why he said "Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh"

Peter: "Be baptized for the REMISSION of sin." (Acts 2:38)

You seem to have left out the part that says "Repent"

You want so badly for baptism to save that you don't even care if the person is saved God's way.

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


He was NOT saying that baptism saves. If he were, he would say it all through scripture. He was saying that if you repent and are baptize you will be saved. He wasn't saying that baptism saved, otherwise he would have restated it all of the tons of times in acts that he says that it is by faith alone that we are saved. The reason that they didn't have the holy Ghost until after they were baptized in this case is because the Holy Ghost was NOT given yet. Pentacaust had not happened yet.

2. Baptism identifies us with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
4. Yes you are right here.
6. Baptism washes away our sin and brings salvation.
8. You are dead wrong here. It through faith in the blood of Christ that we are washed from sin.
10. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {set forth: or, foreordained} {remission: or, passing over}
    (KJV)
12. Baptism clothes us in Christ so that the deeds of the law are no longer needed.
14. Wrong. We are not under the law because we are under grace. Not because we are baptized.
16. Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
    (KJV)

*Bold is my emphasis.

 

Some people have severe problems

 

thats the only unforgivable sin if im not mistaken

 

You are correct my dear.

 

ahhhh....nothing like reading the gnostic gospels

 

So, everything else is forgiven. Yes?

 

not is forgiven i think...can be forgiven...

 

Well then, why not forgive them?

 

Such a lie?

Jesus said: "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man." (John 3:13)

Do you possess a reading disorder in which you cannot fully understand what is written, or are you just purposely denying what was said?

This is what I said

and in the next post...

The Bible states that Abraham's bosom is a place not of torment (I NEVER stated it was), where those before Christ were sent to. I said they were in a place that was in Hades. Honestly, your twisting of words is quite annoying.



The only fallaciousness I see is your claim of the Holy Spirit. You did not even know the scriptures that stated that Christ did not ascend into Heaven until the third day. Even unbelievers know that!

That is exactly what I said in my previous posts

Read a post throughly before you respond because you are obviously not comprehending what is written.

According to the Bible, you are quite mistaken.

Nope, if you take a gander at the link on the bottom of my signature, you will see that I have the ENTIRE scripture. I have also stated many times that repentance was the first step. However, you were too busy with your false claims that you did not notice that.

If would would have read what I wrote about that quote (Because I know that you love to pick out bits and pieces to turn a sentence around so that it fits what you wish for it to fit) I was using the end of that verse to point out what Peter said about baptism in relation to remission.

The bible states that Jesus said that water and spiritual baptism were his way. Which is what I have been saying forever and a day. That is God's way and that is what is stated in his word.


I find it outragoues that you continue to claim that I said that baptism alone saved. Please, quote this with with post number (the number at the top of each post) AND quotes (using the quote button conviently located the bottom of the screen) and show me where you believe that I have ever once stated that baptism alone saves. You will not find anything because I have never made any reference to baptism alone bringing salvation.

Baptism in water (death to old ways) and the in filling of the Spirit (by way of tongues as every person who was filled in the Bible demonstrated) is required for slavtion. Why? But because JESUS CHRIST said so!

Yet, conviently, in chapter two it says baptism for remission. When you are baptized into Christ, you put on his name. If you believe, then you follow the command of baptism to be buried into his death to die to your old self.

Are you blind? I said that Peter said "Remission", did I ever say saving? No. Please learn to read. They were baptized because of what Christ said in relation to baptism of water (symbolic) and Romans 6.

Not according to the Bible.

How did people declare righteousness for the remission of sins? They were baptized!!! Like John the Baptist did, Jesus displayed as an example and Peter reiterated in Acts 2.

You are not under grace until to become part of Christ's death. Romans says that we do not become part of Christ until we die, which as the Bible also states, is through baptism.

"He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"

In Baptism we DIED, through the Holy Spirit we are REBORN.

No, we did not have to commit a charitable act (such feeding and clothing the poor, donations, etc.) But we had to die to our old lived of sin through baptism and the Lord commanded we do and we have to be filled with his Spirit


You continually claim that baptism plays no part in salvation. This is false and not according to the word.

Repentance is the declaration that we our sorry
Baptism lets go of our old lives (we now die to old ways)
The Holy Spirit is the new life (our ressurection from old self to new man)

Without these three things, one does not possess salvation. I am sorry that you disagree, but this is stated in the word of the Lord Jesus Christ. You can agrue it until you are blue in the face, but you are only aruging with the Lord.


You have done nothing but twist my statements around and place words into my mouth. That is called lying, making it quite clear that you do not possess the Spirit.

 

I have a question or two. Why are you fighting? And more importantly, who are you fighting with? Really.