How To Get To Heaven When You Die

ahahaha, i knew it was comming.

let the battle begin

religious folk all have different opinions about this shit, then they want us to follow them? ha.

 

That's what I like doing. It is a lot more relaxing to follow the rules that fit what you want to do.

Ohh yeah, and those who laugh at the great powers of the underworld are false teachers (like me).

What about all the unbiblical stuff God created (including God- God is not biblical, God is Godlical)? Once again it boils down to semantics and logic- God exists independant of the bible, so is God biblical, or is the bible Godlical?

 

Epiphany,

After all of your blabing, baptism STILL is NOT for salvation.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.or...io/baptsave.htm

90% of the verses in the bible that talk about salvation don't even mention baptism. Is the bible wrong and you right? I don't think so. If baptism were required for salvation, it would mention it when it explains how to be saved. It doesn't. Use commmon sense. It is a commandment as I have said numerous times, but it is not for salvation. Do you believe that all that stuff you listed was for salvation? If not, why did you list it? Just believe the scripture.

Is the baptism the gospel? No it isn't. It is the gospel which saves, not baptism.

1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}



Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Look at this verse in reverse:

and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Preaching)

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? (Hearing)

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? (Believing)

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Confessing {Calling on Him.})

(Salvation)

Preaching, hearing, believing, confessing (calling), Salvation. Again as I have said 100 times, where is baptism mentioned here? Is the bible wrong again? Certainly it would mention it here since it says "for whosoever shall" What? "Call upon the name of the Lord" (It doesn't say call upon the name of the Lord and be baptized.) Shall be what? Saved. The problem is that you don't believe the scripture.

 

youre obviously of a sect of Christianity which doesnt place much importance on Baptism. What was the significance of John the Baptists and Jesus' baptising in the river? Baptism washes away original sin--thus it is important for salvation. why do you base all of your beliefs on websites, by the way? you are aware that the internet allows any crazy person to post whatever false, baised information they want, right?

 

and its not even like the Muslim faith where they believe the Quran is the literal word of God. the scriptures are just guidelines and interpretations.

 

If only 1% of the talk about salvation deals with baptism, does that make baptism irrelevant? I never cease to be amazed at the way you so-called Christians pick and choose your relevent verses from the Bible and then claim that only YOUR interperetation is the correct one.

I think it must have agreat deal to do with Paul. Jesus went to be baptized, wanted to be baptized, and he also baptized others, did he not? His followers did so as well - except, perhaps Paul, who as we all know, never met Jesus before His crucifixion, which makes me question his veracity. There was, as church historians can tell you, a big falling out between Paul and Peter (who did know Jesus before he was crucified). What might they have been fighting about? Already, at that early point in the history of the religion, there were schisms. They continue to this day. Who really knew what Jesus meant, the guy who knew Him for years, or the guy who claims to have heard His voice speaking to him as he was suffering from sunstroke on the road to Damascus? Gee, that's a toughie...

Oops, but it's in the Bible, so it must be so. Alright, here's a good one:

Which of these quotes, each taken directly from the scripture is the true word of God (and if it's both, please tell us how that works)?

Matt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me...

-OR-

Luke 9:50 ... he that is not against us is for us.

I suppose that Evangelical Christians are trained to ignore questions like this...

 

Thank you


Frodo, what I find interesting is the fact that you constantly deny that disobedience to the Lord has any relevancy in lack of salvation. Quite simply, that is the kind of mainstream logic that most, "Christians", use to condone their misbehavior.

 

You're welcome. You could return the favor by actually answering my question. It would be a nice change.

 

Epiphany,

It is a sin for a Christian not to be baptized. It is not a damning sin. You think that disobedience to the Lord means that one is not a Christian? Christians disobey God every day of their lives. We are still sinners, saved by Grace. Communion is mentioned in the bible, but it is not for salvation. Baptism is in the bible but it is not for Savation. The fact is that you just don't want to believe what the bible says regarding Savation because you think that you need to do something more than what the scripture plainly says. The scriptures don't mention baptism when talking about salvation most of the time, because baptism is NOT part of our salvation. If it were, then the scriptures would mention it. The verses that you list either explain themselves that baptism does not save, or have to do with a spritual baptism of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Why don't you believe the overwhelming majority of the scripture? Did you ever think that perhaps your view on baptism is wrong?

If you were trying to save someone from falling off a bridge you would tell them what they needed to do to not die right? Why leave out an essential part of how not to die.
How do you explain the overwhelming majority of scripture on salvation not even mentioning baptism? I have explained your verses whereas you cannot expain this simple thing. Think about it. You are just wrong and are too prideful to admit it.

1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}
(KJV)

Paul wasn't sent to baptize but to preach the gospel. It is the gospel that saves, not baptism.

 

I think you have that the other way around, my dear. You are the one who does not know the difference between a command and a charitable act. To answer your question, one must first have faith above ANYTHING in order to even choose to follow Christ. That is what your scriptures are making evident. Conviction causes repentance. Repentance equals forgiveness. What you continually disregard is what Peter stated on the remission of sin. There is a difference between forgiveness of sins and remission of sins... that is where baptism comes on.

Prayer of forgiveness = forgiveness
Baptism = remission of sin (The Bible states it, you deny it....)

I am sorry that the institution you belong to merely follows it's own interpretation of scripture rather than the influence of the Holy Spirit.

With the breakthroughs and healing I, myself, and countless others have experienced upon removing themselves from churches that taught, "salvation prayer", logic, it becomes quite clear who lacks Biblical truth.

 

Luther's Little Instruction Book:
The Small Catechism of Martin Luther

Translation by Robert E. Smith From the German text, printed in:
Triglot Concordia: The Symbolical Books of the Ev. Lutheran Church.
St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, pp. 538-559.

Note: This version of the Small Catechism is under continuous revision. Please check your source for this file
from time to time to obtain updated versions of this text.

Fort Wayne, Indiana: Project Wittenberg, 2004


IV. The Sacrament of Holy Baptism
The Simple Way a Father Should Present it to His Household

What is Baptism?

Baptism is not just plain water, but it is water contained within God's command and united with God's Word.

Where in the Word of God is this?

Where our Lord Christ spoke in the last chapter of Matthew (Matthew 28:19):
"Go into all the world, teaching all heathen nations, and baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

What does Baptism give? What good is it?

It gives us the forgiveness of sins, redeems us from death and the Devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, just as God's words and promises declare.

What are these words and promises of God?

Our Lord Christ spoke one of them in the last chapter of Mark (Mark 16:16):
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; but whoever does not believe will be damned."

How can water do such great things?

Water doesn't make these things happen, of course. It is God's Word, which is with and in the water. Because, without God's Word, the water is plain water and not baptism. But with God's Word it is a Baptism, a grace-filled water of life, a bath of new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul said to Titus in the third chapter (Titus 3:5-8):
"Through this bath of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, that we, justified by the same grace are made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying."

What is the meaning of such a water Baptism?

It means that the old Adam in us should be drowned by daily sorrow and repentance, and die with all sins and evil lusts, and, in turn, a new person daily come forth and rise from death again. He will live forever before God in righteousness and purity.

Where is this written?

St. Paul says to the Romans in Chapter Six (Romans 6:4):
"We are buried with Christ through Baptism into death, so that, in the same way Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, thus also must we walk in a new life."

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This text was translated in 1994, revised in 2002 and revised and expanded in 2004 for Project Wittenberg by
Robert E. Smith. It has been placed in the public domain by him. You may freely distribute, copy or print this
text. Please direct any comments or suggestions to Rev. Robert E. Smith of the Walther Library at:

Concordia Theological Seminary
Email: smithre@mail.ctsfw.edu
Surface Mail: 6600 N. Clinton St., Ft. Wayne, IN 46825
USA Phone: (260) 452-3149 Fax: (260) 452-2126
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Baptism initiates one into the Christian Church does it not? So without Baptism, 1. youre relationship with God is still tarnished with original sin and 2. you have not completely commited yourself to God. Without Baptism, one is not truely committed to God. Without Baptism, one cannot recieve the Body of Christ, either. So there goes Baptism and the Bread of Life, but with your logic, these things arent very important to God.

By the way, I dont quite understand what you mean when you say "the gospel saves". What is it about the Gospel, or rather, what do you have to take from the Gospel that saves? I understand what youre saying--that most people are baptised, go to mass every once in a while, and believe themselves to be good Christians (my family is like this), but youre coming off sounding like you think Baptism holds no importance in Christianity.

Have you socialized with the sick and dying, or shared a meal with the homeless, or given all of your posessions to those who have none? Or have you simply dropped a couple bucks in the collection basket as it comes around on Sunday morning mass? You cannot pick and choose what you believe, then preach that we simply live the Gospel, you hypocrite.
But, after all, it IS much easier to let a book do the thinking for you--to base your beliefs off of a how-to manual and feel like you are doing some good, rather than to go out and experience God for yourself through his Sacraments.

 

Your comments are moronic at best. You can be completely in love with God and commited to God without getting a baptism of water. Rituals might be a fun way of interacting with God (of course, someday, I would love to be baptised) but you are not lacking in God if you have not experienced them yet. God is with us constantly, with or without silly or exciting rituals. People who attach too much significance to rituals are complete idiots. Rituals are provided for you by God at the right time in your life for you to experience them.

Anywhere you are at you are experiencing God, and anyone who denies this is a liar or a fool. God's intent is manifest in God's creation.

 

Yes, but that is not the Christian teachings. Of course God is present in all things, but Christianity teaches that baptism is important.

 

god is a bitch.

 

Epiphany wrote:

I think you have that the other way around, my dear. You are the one who does not know the difference between a command and a charitable act. To answer your question, one must first have faith above ANYTHING in order to even choose to follow Christ. That is what your scriptures are making evident. Conviction causes repentance. Repentance equals forgiveness. What you continually disregard is what Peter stated on the remission of sin. There is a difference between forgiveness of sins and remission of sins... that is where baptism comes on.

Prayer of forgiveness = forgiveness
Baptism = remission of sin (The Bible states it, you deny it....)

You say that they are different? Forgiveness and Remission? No they are not. Let's examine the scripture.

Ac 26:18 To open <anoigo> their <autos> eyes <ophthalmos>, and to turn <epistrepho> them from <apo> darkness <skotos> to <eis> light <phos>, and <kai> from the power <exousia> of Satan <Satanas> unto <epi> God <theos>, that they <autos> may receive <lambano> forgiveness <aphesis> of sins <hamartia>, and <kai> inheritance <kleros> among <en> them which are sanctified <hagiazo> by faith <pistis> that is in <eis> me <eme>.

The word for forgiveness here is <aphesis>

Ac 10:43 To him <touto> give <martureo> all <pas> the prophets <prophetes> witness <martureo>, that through <dia> his <autos> name <onoma> whosoever <pas> believeth <pisteuo> in <eis> him <autos> shall receive <lambano> remission <aphesis> of sins <hamartia>.

The word for remission here is <aphesis>

THEY ARE THE SAME WORD!! You are dead wrong. Forgiveness IS remission. They are both the same thing.

Take is from Strong's:

859. afesiv aphesis, af'-es-is
Search for 859 in KJV

from 863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon:--deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

See Greek 863 (aphiemi)


I am sorry that the institution you belong to merely follows it's own interpretation of scripture rather than the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, I am sorry that the institution that YOU belong to merely follows it's own interpretation scritpture rather than the influence of the Holy Spirit.

With the breakthroughs and healing I, myself, and countless others have experienced upon removing themselves from churches that taught, "salvation prayer", logic, it becomes quite clear who lacks Biblical truth.

Yes, so in essence what you are saying is that you need signs from God to make you feel good so that you don't have to have faith in His Word. I have had signs from God also. God Himself told me to my face to go to the church that you so boldly condemn. Is He wrong? I am saved by faith in what Christ did on the cross for me ALONE. Not because of what I did, but because of what HE did. Baptism is a work of Righteousness.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
(KJV)

We are washed in the blood of Jesus Christ and filled with the Holy Ghost. I have the Holy Ghost. Praise God He saved me just as He saved the theif on the cross who was NOT baptized.

Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

All he did was simply ask for forgiveness and Jesus saved him.

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Why doesn't it say believe and be baptized? Seems like a suitable time to mention it, seeing that they are explaining how to be saved. They don't mention it because it is not required for salvation. They do baptize him however, after he gets saved.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

You cannot possess the Holy Ghost without being saved first. They had the Holy Ghost BEFORE baptizm because they were already saved.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

After what? After they believed they were filled with the Holy Ghost. Not baptized.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We are sealed by the Holy Ghost. We receive the Holy Ghost BEFORE baptism. Baptism does NOT save.

 

have any of you ever considered the possibility that the bible isint correct? what if youre wrong? what about all the people who lived before jesus' time? what about the people who were too far seperated in space and time to have ever heard the "word of god"? they burn forever because they lived 10000 years ago or they were on the opposite side of the world? also, what if people like hitler,stalin,musilini,henry VIII,bismarck,nero,reagan, and countless other evil people and tyrants did the whole christian clean slate bullshit just before they died? then their crimes were washed away according to you but if i lie once i spend eternity in infinite pain unless i accept "the lord". you see, i dont like christianity because it portrays god as basically an asshole. if you read the old testament god is always smoting the shit out of some body. so is god an abusive husband? "i only hit you because i love you". i certainly hope the real god isint the picky arrogant dick as portrayed in the bible and i also hope that the real hell (if it exists) is a place reserved for the truely wicked, not people who have non christian beliefs

 

I am sorry, Frodo, but your mainstream Christianity is sadly mistaken.

"And repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." (Matthew 4:23)

And what was the teaching of apostles?

"Whosoever believeth AND is baptized". Sorry, you cannot take out the part of the sentence that you do not like. Remember, changing the words of the Bible is a sin.

"Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sin."

This is the same answer given to the people of Samaria (Acts 8:5-17) to Paul (Acts 9:6-17), 22:16) to the Gentiles in Caesarea (Acts 10:34-48) and to the converts of John the Baptist (19:1-8).

Paul may have stated that he did not come to baptize, yet Peter did. Peter is the rock of Christ's New Testament church on earth. A church that your mainstream denomination has no ties with.

"But even if we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." (Galations 1:8)

Jesus commanded us to be baptized. He instructed his disciples to "go therefore and make disciples...baptizing them." The disciples were to lead people to know Jesus as Savior and then to baptize.

What you are preaching is NOT what the apostles/disciples preached after Christ's death.

We are saved by grace, and through grace, a biblical plan of salvation has been established. Belief, repentance, baptism for the remission of sin and the in filling of the Holy Spirit.

In water baptism, we identify with him. We are buried with him into his death and we also arise with Him in the likeness of His resurrection to, "walk in the newness of life." (again, see Romans 6:1-8) In water baptism we call upon the name of Jesus Christ and his name is called upon us.

God does not change and neither does his word. You keep stating what I am already aware of, followers received the Spirit before they were baptized. However, you constantly contradict yourself when using those verses for your rebuttal. The same way the followers 2,000 years ago experienced the Holy Spirit is the same way that followers today do. All of the people you are using as references received the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. I am sorry that with the split of New Testament church followers, your, "faith", has changed what the Lord has said.

Your argument of, "that which is perfect", is the completion of the Bible is futile. The Bible holds many inaccuracies due to mistranslation. It is not perfect. The Lord himself knew that the words of the Bible would be altered, hence his warning through the writer John at the end of Revelation. What is perfect shall come when Christ returns to establish his kingdom on earth. "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them." (Isaiah 11, prophecizing Christ's return to earth). Christ reining on earth is perfection, not the completion of the Bible.

Then shall all prophecy and tongues cease. We will no longer need them because Christ will walk amongst us.

The constant charade of taking scripture out of context is only further proof that you do not possess the Holy Spirit. I believe you have confused the, "demonic voices", that were speaking to you and the voice of the Lord that told you to remain in mainstream Christianity. Mainstream Christianity was not and is not of Christ.

For the umpeethundredth time, No one made any statment saying that once a person is baptized they are saved. Please kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth!

Salvation was authorized at Calvary by death, burial and resurrection.

You must first and foremost believe in Christ (death)

you must be baptized for remission "buried with Christ" (burial)

you must be filled with the Spirit of Christ. (resurrection)

these things are ALL stated as commands of Christ. Following a command is NOT a charitable act.

Again, "those who are baptized into his name have been buried into his death" (Romans 6:8)

By baptism, you are covering yourself with the name of Jesus Christ and his blood that was shed at Calvary.

Please stop taking what I say out of context. It is very arrogant and ignorant. Through Jesus Christ and his salvation, The bible teaches us that we are promised healing and redemption. Healing and redemption did not come about with the, "Blab it and grab it salvation", that both my old churches/schools and you preach. Healing did not come about until baptism in the name of Christ and the Holy Spirit. I've said it before and I shall say it again. Baptism is a command. If I did not have faith in his word, I would not be baptized, nor filled with his Spirit!

You just contradicted yourself using the theif on the cross. You said a few posts back, in which, I have stated on numerous ocassions, that one cannot enter the kingdom unless he is born of the Spirit. The theif of the cross was not baptized, NOR did he received the spirit.


The constant charade of taking scripture out of context is only further proof that you do not possess the Holy Spirit. I believe you have confused the, "demonic voices", that were speaking to you and the voice of the Lord that told you to remain in mainstream Christianity. Mainstream Christianity was not and is not of Christ.

 

for a religion sposedly based on love
you sure do seem to enjoy creating conflict

 

God I am so stupid. <slams head into wall> (Black Sheep)