How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Epiphany & XFRODOBAGGINSX, you wonder why people like me don't listen to the crap you come up with?? It's because two christians can't even agree on what they stand for, and what needs to happen to become a christian.. I mean, fucking hell.. if you guys can't even make up your mind, what chance do we have?

 

I know a pair of twins who were raised in and continue to practice an evangelical Christian faith. Despite this, they cannot agree on what the Bible says (or more to the point, what the words in the Bible mean). Language is ambiguous. You can look for salvation in that book for the rest of your life and never find it. Salvation comes from within.

 

EpiphanyActs 8 - "When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."


That scripture states exactly what I have said myself about not receiving the Spirit until after baptism.

What I find amusing is that if you actually took the time to read my Salvation thread, (link located at the bottom of my signature), you will see that I have already listed these verses and the importance of the Holy Spirit.



Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." (notice the, "shall be")

Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

You like to used parts of verses but you don't use the entire verse. It says

"He that believeth NOT shall be damned" It doesn't condemn anyone for not being baptized.


I personally did not receive Christ's spirit until after I was baptized.

Then you weren't saved until you confessed Christ at baptism. Maybe you hadn't confessed Him first. Baptism doesn't save.


That is exactly what the verse above just said!

No it isn't.


Those whom I know personally:

a. Received the Holy Spirit after baptism

b. Received the Holy Spirit during baptism

c. Received the Holy Spirit before baptism

This is confusing seeing that possessing the holy Spirit means that one is saved. We recieve the holy Spirit after we believe on Jesus Christ for salvation.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Again, if you took the time to read my salvation post, I clearly state that the Holy Spirit can come upon a believer at any time.

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

They had the spirit before baptism. If you are a believer then you are saved.

"Or do you know that all of those who were baptized into Jesus Christ, were baptized into his death" (Acts 6:3)

Yes it is a picture of His death, burial and ressurection. It does not save.


Romans 6:4: "We were therefore buried with him through baptism."

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (KJV)

Again it is a picture of what happens inward. If this verse meant that baptism saves, it would be inconsistent with all of the other scriptures.

Romans 6:5: "Because anyone who has died has been free from sin."

We die to sin by repenting and turning to Jesus Christ for salvation.

If we must be baptized, to be baptized into his death, then when we are baptized, we die to sin. Acts 6 clearly stated that.

You can believe that he died for your sins on the cross, but until you are baptized, you are not baptized into his death.

We are baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 says you are wrong.

I had confessed my sins in fifth grade after breaking away from the Catholic church. Even though I mourned and prayed and confessed them several times, I did not receive the Holy Spirit until February of 2004, after I was baptized on September 26th of 2003. No one, in the entirety of the Christian school that I attended, possess the Holy Spirit (remember, when the Apostles were filled, they were all on one accord). They simply walk around believing that because they prayed a prayer, they are saved. None of their chains have been broken.

Like I said, We are supposed to be baptized, but not for salvation. If you are not baptized then you are in disobedience to Christ if you are a believer.

Hmm, How do you know that you obtained the Holy Spirit?

Don't say because you speak in toungues because I know that I have the Holy Spirit and I don't speak in toungues, never have and probably never will.

The only experience that I have with toungues is when a demon what speaking in toungues in my ear when I was sleeping.

If one confesses of their sin, yet is never baptism, nor filled with the Spirit, they do not have salvation. You are claiming in your posts that all they must do is believe. By the scriptures I have stated, this disproves the mainstream theory.

If one confesses their sin is good but that is not salvation. Salvation is accepting what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross to save you and confessing Him as your Lord and Savior. You receive the Holy Spirit when you accept Him before Baptism, which means that you are Saved after you believe not after Salvation.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, or, privilege}

Does it says as many as were baptized? No because Baptism isn't for Salvation.

Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

They believed. Where is baptism meantioned here. It doesn't say believed and were baptized.


Many people that I know have also been to the cross and repented. Until the initial act of baptism and the infilling of the Holy Spirit took place, no chains were broken in my life, nor theirs. When a person is saved, chains should be broken. If chains remained until these acts took place, then they should clearly prove that baptism and the infilling of the holy spirit are essential to salvation.

I believe you that the chains were not broken until baptism. I won't argue that. I am just saying that baptism isn't salvation. If you were a believer then you were in disobedience to God by not being baptized. Indwelling of the Holy Spirit IS Spritual baptism. The water baptism is a picture of the inward.
Missionaries who cast out demons will tell you that when the people confess Jesus Christ as Lord, they are saved. The demons immediately leave because they are filled with the Holy Ghost. Baptism is not for salvation.

1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It is not talking about water baptism here. It is talking about a "good concience toward God.

That argument that you and many others use is taking scripture out of context.. "When that which is perfect comes." That which is perfect shall come again. When it does, then shall tongues cease, then shall prophecy no longer exsist. Jesus Christ is coming back. This is called, "The second coming." When Christ walks the earth again during his second reign, then shall these things cease to exist. Obviously, when Christ reigns on earth, no longer will we need prophecy nor tongues because we shall have direct contact with him.

No you are taking scripture out of context. Look at every verse in the bible which talks about salvation. 95% of them don't even mention baptism. You take the few that mention baptism and try to say the baptism saves.

1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. {words: or, speech}

Baptism is not the gospel. The gospel is what saves. Baptism is an outward showing. Just as communion does not save, yet we keep it.

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Did he say be baptized? No He clearly didn't. If it were for salvation or part of it, clearly he wouldn't have left it out would he have?

It is by Believing ON the Lord Jesus Christ. That means to "Put your faith in"

The word for believe is:

4100. pisteuw pisteuo, pist-yoo'-o
Search for 4100 in KJV

from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Are you goint to throw this verse out of the bible?

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Where is bapitsm mentioned here?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever believeth in HIM.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Hath the Son hath life. Not baptism. We get the Son by believing.

Ac 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

First He confessed with His mouth, Jesus Christ.

Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

The baptism came after salvation.

Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

He believed and confessed BEFORE he was baptised. He was saved before he was baptized.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith in Christ saves us without works.

Ro 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


"With strange lips and foreign tongues".... This is still being spoken today. I am sorry, but when I speak in my tongue, I am not speaking gibberish. I received the Holy Spirit through prayer (just as the apostles) and spoke in other tongues (just as the apostles). This is all Biblical. (Which again, I have pointed out in the link)

I recieved the Holy Spirit through prayer also. By asking Jesus Christ to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins and be my Savior and by confessing that He died on the cross and rose from the dead.


Ac 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. {was...: Gr. voice was made confounded: or, troubled in mind}

That's right but those days have ended. Didn't you read the verse I listed last time. Also, they heard them speak in their own toungue, not the gibberish that goes on in penticostal churches.

1Co 14:6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Ya and? I never denied that they spake in toungues back then. I said that the bible says that:

1Co 13:8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. {fail: Gr. vanish away}
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. {done away: Gr. vanish away}
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. {thought: or, reasoned} {put away: Gr. vanish away}

I have already explained this to you. Toungues is a childish thing that has been put away when the bible was completed.

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? {sounds: or, tunes}

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. {easy...: Gr. significant}

So explain to me why they do that in those toungues showy churches. It seems to be all for a big show, not to glorify God, but to say, look at me, I am more spiritual than you are.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

There are evil voices also.

1Jo 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

We are not to believe every voice.

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. {of spiritual gifts: Gr. of spirits}

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Why if toungues are for those who already believe do you speak it at church where the believer's gather?


There are interpreters (hence, the gift mentioned). Interpretation is for a group setting (i.e prophecy). Personal prayer between a man/woman and God does not need interpretation. When I am praying in my tongue, this is my personal prayer. I am not standing before church trying to deliver a message. I am speaking to the Lord on my own. If one was to interpret my tongue during prayer, they would be infringing on my own personal conversation with the Lord. This is not what is being stated in Corinthians.

"For anyone who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to men, but to God" (1 Corinthians 14:2)

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.


When the apostles spoke in tongues, they were praying. When I speak in tongues, I am praying as well. Scripture does state that we ought to pray in the Spirit daily. The scriptures you have used clearly state that praying in tongues is praying in the spirit.


You have once again taken the scripture out of context. Paul is stating that using tongues to speak to man is foolish. I have never implied that the use of tongues was for men to speak to one another.

If you look at the end of chapter 14, he states: "Do not forbid speaking in tongues."

1Co 14:34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

In this passage women aren't even permitted to speak, yet they have women preachers in their churches.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 ¶ What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

If you wish to speak with toungues, do it the way God says to.

My church follows the Apostolic teachings given directly from Jesus Christ to his apostles. I can clearly see that yours does not. Every statement I have made in my Salvation post is backed by Scripture.

Christ was baptized by his cousin John the Baptist as an example of what we were to do.

That's right we do need to be baptized. Was Jesus already saved? Sure He was.


I am aware of the verse I am speaking of as I use it quite often.

That does not make any sense whatsoever. Basically what you just said is that a man cannot be born again unless he was physically born of a woman. Well obviously a person cannot be saved if a person was not born to begin with. If they were not born to begin with, they would not exist. That really holds no validity in this debate.

Yes it does because that is exactly what Jesus said. Read the explanation that He gave. Born of water and of spirit.
That which is Born of flesh is flesh
That which is born of spirit is spirit.
Read the passage. What does He mean that which is born of flesh is flesh? He is talking about the physical birth.

Baptism in water is for the remission of sins. "You should not be surprised when I say, you MUST be born again." "Born-again"...to be born again, this means we must die. What scripture do we find that in? This takes us back to Acts 6:3 and Romans 6:4. Baptism, the physical act of dying to the world (i.e. Dying to sin).

Born again is something that happens inside when we accept Christ.

When did the theif on the cross get baptized?

Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

He simply asked Jesus to save Him and Jesus saved Him. Jesus didn't say "too bad, you can't be baptized"

Again, I shall reiterate Mark 16:16

I have already explained this verse to you. He that believeth NOT shall be damned. Not he that is not baptized shall be damned.

 

Interesting, this confusion between being "baptized" and being "born again."

Have you thought to look at the eldest version of this concept (at least as far as the Judeo-Christian version goes) embodied in the Hebrew letters: "Yod He Vau He?"

Compare that with what you get when you add the Hebrew letter "Shin" to this equation - "Yod He Shin Vau He."

Each letter has a specific meaning in ancient Hebrew, the combination of which relates very specifically to the idea of being "born again" and to the idea of the divine presence made into a living, earthly presence.

I suggest to you who are so fond of throwing Bible quotes at each other, that you do a bit of actual research and find out what application these letters have to the discussion at hand. I have. I found it very enlightening. But I doubt that most Christians ever equate being "born again" with reaching enlightenment. In fact, it seems clear that a process of actual study is rarely involved with becoming a Christian. It's my guess that neither of our arguing Christians on this thread has ever bothered to do any research into this particular part of the divine mystery.

Be warned, though: to figure this one out, you may actually have to think for yourself.

 

Obedience is greater than sacrifice. Without obedience, one certainly does not have salvation.

"This water symbolizes baptism which now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a good conscience towards God. It saves you by the ressurection of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 3:21)

Not the removal of dirt, but the removal of sin, pleding good conscience towards God. Death to the world, life through Christ.

Notice the apostles wanted these people baptized.

Baptism is clearly a tangible act of death. Christ died and was buried by being inclosed in a tomb. Water baptism is full submersion in water, that covers one completely, in the same way.

• "Having been buried with him in baptism" (Colossians 2:11)

"I confess that you have died on the cross for my sin and I accept you as my savior" - No death is taking place. You are merely confessing that you accept Christ. The death does not take place until you are baptized fully in water, as I have stated using the verses in both Acts and Romans 6.

If you have not yet died to sin, you cannot possess salvation. One cannot hold Christ in one hand and sin in the other.

In the Bible, those who possessed the spirit without baptism, the apostles were quick to baptize. Those who received baptism and had not yet been filled with the spirit, the apostles were quick to lay hands on. The apostles knew that for their salvation, they must have both baptism of water and baptism of Christ’s spirit.

As I have already stated during this debate, I never said that baptism alone saves. I said salvation is a process that must be completed by both baptism and the spirit.

Acts 19 - "Paul said, John’s baptism was for repentance." He told the people to believe in Jesus

The Bible states that Baptism was for Repentance:

• "Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River." (Matthew 3:6)
• "I baptize you with water for repentance." (Matthew 3:11) (and then John states that Christ will baptize with the spirit)

"Paul said, John’s baptism was for repentance." (Acts 19)

According to Acts 19:

1. First they believed

2. They were baptized

3. They were filled with the Holy Spirit

Hence, three steps

"And now what are you waiting for, Get up and be baptized and wash away your sins away, calling on his name." (Acts 22:16)

They had not yet died to sin, which is why they needed to be baptized, to wash their sins away.

"Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (which as we know, all are titles for Jesus, since all three of manifestations of God). And teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."(Matthew 28:19)

Acts 2 - The apostles were filled with the spirit and spoke with tongues during prayer

I too was filled with the spirit and began to speak in tongues during prayer.

"This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words . The man without the Spirit does not accept these things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:16)

You continue to use this as a rebuttal, yet I have stated that when tongues are being spoken (and I can only speak for my own church) it is while people are in prayer. This is the way the apostles and the rest of the 120 did it, and this is how it is done here. That is the proper way that is happened in the Bible, that is the proper way it is happening now (again, I can only speak for my body of Christ).

You have the idea in your mind that we simply stand around for the entire church service and speak in tongues. This is not true! We begin each service with praise and worship (music). After announcements and etc., our Pastor speaks (yes, in English (we also have a Spanish translation). When he is completely finished with the message, there is an altar call. Those who have no yet been baptized or filled with the holy spirit are welcomed up to the altar. Anyone who wants to pray is also welcome. During this time, tongues are usually heard as people are kneeling in prayer, praying in their tongue to God. They are not speaking to the church!

However, and this is what Paul was speaking of in Corinthians, there are times when a message will come through in tongues. There is an interpreter (usually Pastor’s wife as she possess of interpretation of tongues (as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12:9 )

As I have stated in My salvation post:

The Bible gives very CLEAR examples that those who are filled with the holy spirit spoke in tongues. The apostles did, those who the apostles preached to did, so on and so forth. You can deny this, but the fact remains that their tongue was clearly the tangible evidence of God’s own words that stated, "With strange lips and foreign tongues" (Isaiah 28:11).

The Bible gives examples of what we are to follow. Every example given of someone being filled with the holy spirit had the evidence of them speaking in another tongue. You may deny it, yet, it is scriptural. As a follower of Christ, Baptized in his name and filled with his spirit, by the examples given, I am going to have to go with the Holy Spirit’s guidance over yours.

You claim that you possess the Holy Spirit, yet, you cannot give any evidence of this, according to scripture. Possessing the Spirit is not a feeling. My Catholic parents have accepted Christ as their Lord and savior. The Catholic church believes that one receives the holy spirit during confirmation. If my parents possessed the holy spirit upon their confession and belief, then my mother would not accept the mark of the beast (the impending implant chip) as a wonderful idea.

I also find it quite amusing that the former mainstream Christian church/school that I had attended, that spoke the same philosophy that you spoke, has since changed hands is now a tongue speaking church. In fact, it is the same type of church that Arlia says that she attends (non-denominational).

At the end of Mark 16:17, it also states that those who possess the Holy Spirit shall drive out demons (There are many, many Apostolic (*not to be confused with snake wangling southern pentecostals) Pentecostal missionaries that are witnessing all around the world. In many of these countries, they are having to cast out demonic spirits. I do not know the exact number my own pastor has cast out, you would have to ask him that question.





Verse 19 states that they will place their hands on the sick and they shall be healed. Many people have been healed of their sickness. I just made a post in the Christianity forum of the latest healing that I had received. Since I have been baptized and filled with the spirit, healing has come at an overwhelming rate. I would share each and every testimony, yet, some of them are personal and do not need to be mentioned on the board.

I could have followed the same philosophy that you are providing, and would have remained stuck with the same issues that I was back when I was being taught their ideas. However, I have experienced the healing that I have experienced after following the plan of salvation (repentance, baptism, in filling of the spirit). Being healed from my illnesses and no longer needing medication took place only after I was baptized by the spirit and began to pray in tongues.

You keep insisting that I did not fully believe/did not fully repent. Yet, I did. I have heard the testimonies of others who were taught the same ideas, and they have also stated that their life’s situations had not gotten any better, nor did they receive healing until they too experienced water and spirit baptism ( tongues).

I suggest that you check out Irvin Baxter’s (A Pastor and the edtior and chief of End Time magazine) site http://www.endtime.com/ and order this package:

SKU: 977
Name: Salvation Package VHS
Description: Three newly filmed lessons by Irvin Baxter, including
Understanding the Godhead (2 hrs)
True Christianity vs. False Christianity (1 hr)
Tongues: Devilish or Divine? (1 hr)

For further understanding of Scripture.

 

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/baptsave.htm

Try clicking on this link for more info on why water baptism does NOT save.

 

hahahahahaha
finding truth on the internet is even more rediculous than trying to find it in a book

 

I've read it.

I have learned it.

I have practiced it.

I have come to know from experience that it is merely partial truth.

"Blab it and grab it salvation" is society's way of cutting corners.

Many people who follow this type of salvation find themselves feeling that God has abandoned them. They begin to feel rejected and some even turn away from faith completely. The problem is not that the Lord is not listening. The problem is the false sense of salvation that you and the rest of these churches are spreading. Hikaru Zero stated that he begged and pleading with the Lord numerous times and no change ever occurred. It is a bit arrogant to assume that because these prayers were not answered, we were not, "trying hard enough." You do not know what was in our hearts at the moment. However, with can both testify to believing what we were taught, practicing it, and watching it fail.

A man called into a, "Christian" radio station not too long ago. He told the radio preacher that he had been to the altar five times, confessing his sins and accepting Christ into his heart. He had not received an ounce of deliverance. The misguided preacher told him to, "Try again son." When a person accepts Christ as their savior and asks for forgiveness, they should only have to do this once. Time and time again many of us have made attempts with no success. As we know, Jesus's method is NEVER faulty, therefore, the method being taught in these churches is faulty.

I have seen criminals, gang bangers, drug addicts and the like come to the altar, get baptized while asking for forgiveness, and receive the Holy Spirit. Instantaneously, they are freed from illegal activity, gang banging, sexual immorality, drugs and ect.. Some have been convicted to remove their earrings/body piercings upon baptism (I was convicted through the Spirit to remove my lip piercing). On the other hand, I know alcoholics who have accepted Christ, prayed, cried and still cannot put down the bottle.

Furthermore, Peter himself said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. The passage clearly states that you must be baptized for the removal of sin. Why? because it is the spiritual death spoken of in both Acts and Romans chapter 6. "Be buried with Christ in baptism."

Of course you must first believe in Christ to be saved. No one is refuting that. However, you must also be baptized for the remission of sins and you must be filled with Christ's spirit. Jesus Christ stated all of these things MUST take place. Failure to complete these steps is disobedience and disobedience does not lead to salvation.... plain and simple.

On another note, because one possess the plan of salvation, does not give then permanent stamp that states they are Heaven-bound. One may possess the tools of salvation, but it depends upon what one does with it. (Hence, the parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:14)

P.S. I do not refer to myself as a, "pentecostal". I attend a church that believes in and continues the same practices as the first testament church of the Bible. Division came about during 325 A.D. when the Catholic church broke away from the original teachings of the apostles. Jesus intended for his followers to be one body, not the separate institutions we see today.

 

More quoting scriptures and this nonsense. It's not impressive. It actually shows the lack of devotion towards your own life. It's hard to get out there and enjoy life while you're sitting at home memorizing scriptures to "wow" your "friend" with. If I was God, I'd rather have my people enjoying what I've created rather than obsessing over man's writings. But then again, he's always been the touchy sort, drowning people and such.

And the reason why the bible is used more than these other books is simply following. The same reason why there's a two party government, even though we have all these partys.
Following the religious logic about the bible, only what the Republicans and Democrats say is correct, the other partys don't know what they're doing.

But you know what is weird: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7234407/?GT1=6305
Satan's image on a turtle. Kinda funky. I knew there was a reason I never trusted turtles.


Goodnight.

 

Salavtion is by grace through faith. Look up all of the verses that have to do with salvation and the overwheming majority don't even mention baptism. You are taking every instance that the bible mentions baptism and applying it only to water baptism. You have errered. Jesus Christ alone saves us by what He did for us, not what we do for Him.

 

Remission of sin is not a charitable act. It is essential to faith and without it one is showing disobedience to the command of the Lord. I am sorry that you disregard that fact.

I thank the Lord daily that because of his grace, someone bore a burden of his Holy Spirit and witnessed to me. If not for that, I would still be stuck in a mainstream church of lies with no direction, no Spirit, and a melancholy feeling, wondering why my prayers seemed unfavorable in the sight of God. It was not that I lacked remorse for sin (which I did not lack by any means), yet it was the false prophecy of man being implanted in my mind.

I now share that same burden through the Holy Spirit and will continue to spread Christ's message of salvation. It is quite beautiful to watch someone so grieved and troubled (especially those who are bound by drugs and alcohol) come up out of the water or receive the gift His Spirit (whichever comes first... the majority being baptized). Christ's spirit within me truly rejoices when they later testify that they now have experienced the true healing power of Christ in their lives. The change within them is quite apparent.

 

fr. martin luther:

THANK GOD I AM BAPTIZED!

to which one can but say "amen!"

so mote it be, brethren, so mote it be...

 

If I were to write a bible right now and say God told me to do it, would you believe me? No, of course not.

So just because it's older than you means it's right? COME ON PEOPLE, find an OUNCE of logic in your thinking. There is less than none.

 

Remission of sin IS a charitable act of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace means unearned favour. God does us a favor that we don't deserve, nor did we earn. You are trying to work for your salvation. Deliverance doesn't come through water it comes through faith in Christ.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Again, does it say anything about baptism here?

 

A charitable act is something one does that is NOT required of them, nor does it benefit them. Baptism is a command, of Jesus, reiterated by the apostle Peter. It is not an option nor it is beneficial towards anyone except the person who is being baptized. "If you love me, you will follow my commands." Any statement that possess the word, "must", in the Bible is a command. This does not leave room for options or personal philosophy. We have laws in this country that state we must drive at a certain speed limit. Adherence to those laws is not a charitable act, it is required. Adherence to the commands of Christ are the same.


"He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him"...

If one was diligently seeking the Lord, they would be in obedience to him. Repentance with blatant disregard for baptism (which again, Peter, Christ's own beloved apostle, himself stated was for the remission of sin) is showing rebellion. Rebellion is not an act of obedience. Christ did not have his cousin, John the Baptist, immerse him in water just for fun. It was an example of what one is to do. Faith goes hand in hand with obedience. Without obedience, salvation cannot be acquired.

 

That's not what the bible says.

 

Uh oh... Someone is misinterpreting the Bible, I guess. Who is it? Which Evangelical Christian is going to hell, despite their best intentions? Stay tuned...

 

Christianity is what came about after Christ died and believers fell away from the Apostolic teachings of the first church of the New Testament. “Christianity”, has become an institution rather than one body of followers which was Christ’s original intent.

The bible was not meant to be interpreted (as what man perceives to be truth). Many people do not possess the Holy Spirit, thus, they grossly misunderstand or take scripture out of context.

 

You mean churches such as YOUR church fell away from biblical teachings. The bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith and NOT of works. I know that I possess the Holy Spirit and don't need your approval. Since your religion takes scripture out of context, does that mean that your church doesn't possess the Holy Spirit? It's about what the bible says, not what YOU say.

 

I am sorry to disappoint you, but my church upholds the teachings that Christ gave his followers before his departure from this earth.

You seem to know very little to nothing about Apostolic beliefs, so I shall break them down.

1. God created the world (Genesis 1)

2. God created mankind (Genesis 1:26-27)

3. Man fell in sin (Genesis 2:25-25, 3:1:9)

4. Sin separates man from God (Genesis 3:22-24)

5. Man is lost in his sins without God (Romans 3:23, 5:12,14, 6:23)

6. God came in the flesh to the world to save us from sin (Matthew 1:18-25, Luke 2:11, 19:10, John 1:29, 2 Corinthians 5:19, 1 Timothy 1:15), His name was Jesus.

7. Jesus was crucified for our sins. (Romans 5:6, 1 John 2:2) He rose again on the third day.

8. Jesus gives his disciples commissions and commandments on what to do and preach before He ascends up into Heaven (Matthew 28:16-36, Mark 16:14-20, Luke 24:44-53, John 3:1-18, Acts 1:1-15) ~ this includes being born again.

9. The New Testament church of Jesus Christ is born (Acts 2:1-36) And yes, Peter preached that you MUST be baptized for the remission of sin... I do not feel that I need to type that verse out again because it is very clear.

10. The plan of salvation (Acts 2:38) The plan of salvation is demonstrated by death of Christ.
In the New Testament we find that:
1. Jesus Christ died on Calvary

2. Jesus Christ was buried in a tomb

3. Jesus Christ was resurrected on the third day

A) Repentance (our death to sin - Christ at Calvary)

B) Baptism in Jesus’ name (our watery grave of cleansing and burial of the old man of sin - Christ in the Tomb)
C) Baptism of the Holy Ghost (our spiritual resurrection by the Spirit of God - Christ's Resurrection)

"Men and brethren what shall we do?" - Acts 2:37

1. Repentance is a New Testament Commandment (Acts 17:30)

2. Baptism in Jesus’ name is a New Testament commandment (Acts 10:48)

3. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a New Testament commandment (Acts 1:4-5)

11. Who is this Apostolic salvation and experience at Pentecost in Acts 2 for? (Acts 2:39)

12. Once one is born again they should continue in the apostolic teachings of the Bible. (Acts 2:42)

13. It is God’s plan for his children to live dedicated and godly lives (Romans 6:1-2, 12:1-2)

14. It is God’s plan and commandment for his children to spread his word. (Luke 10:2, John 4:35, Acts 1:8)

15. It is God’s plan for his children to be active in their local church (Hebrews 10:25) and follow their pastor (Hebrews 13:7, 17)


You are correct... you do not need my approval of the Holy Spirit. You need to follow the guidelines that were laid out in the Bible and the examples of Baptism of water and the Holy Spirit that were given throughout the entire New Testament. God worked through the authors of his word to write down what it is we are to follow. Each and every example is given for a reason. Not just for a fun story to read and pick which rules you desire to follow.

I have given countless scriptural references. You are choosing to follow the ones that suit your convenience. (I.E. "Blab it and grab it" salvation)

as I have stated, I have attended the type of school/church that you attend. I was taught the same, "philosophy" of a simple prayer equals salvation. When that applied philosophy did not work, I prayed for truth. God brought me to where I am now. He broke my chains and set me free. He filled me with his Spirit. He has blessed me beyond degree, continually displaying his healing power in my life, and guiding me in his ways. I thank him every day that he saved me from fallacy.

Religion is what Christ spoke out against when he criticized the pharisees. It is a man made institution that does not possess the Spirit.

You seem to think that you are above receiving the Holy Spirit the way that the apostles did when the were filled.

Act: "something done voluntarily" (example) Opening the door for someone when one does not have to

Command: "an order given" (example) Obeying the rules of the road

"You must be born again" - Jesus
(The answer to, "What must we do?") "Repent and be baptized" - Peter

Obeying a command of Christ is not an act. Anything that is unbiblical, is not of God. The way you claim to have received the Holy Spirit is contradictory to the word and it’s example. I am sorry, but Christ said that those who stray are false prophets.