How To Argue For Gun Control.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Maccabee, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Actually it's 2.93% if we assume a crowd of 20,000.
    And that's acceptable to you so you can play with your guns?

    How is that an exaggeration? You claim you can hit more targets faster with a semi automatic than you can with a machine gun, even into a crowd of 20,000 people. Then you claim that, "The simple answer is machine guns tend to have more ammo and is psychologically devastating to hear automatic fire directed towards you."
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Trump is certainly not a declared Nazi, but as to him being racist, I'll let his record speak on it's own.
    Further, he thinks there are good Nazis.

    Point taken with the cross, can they burn it in a field if they have permission? Or maybe in a public area as a form of free speech?
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Do you have any proof that gun laws don't work. And please supply us with double blind experiments that conclusively prove this claim.

    You may be right, Soulcompromise may be right.
    As it may be hard to prove either view we should error on the side of caution, as many guns have no purpose but to kill as rapidly as possible, overthrown our government, or shoot up watermelons for fun.
    So if we error on the side of caution and stiffen our gun laws possibly saving many lives...you can't live with that...you have to have your fun shooting trees and old wine bottles...and so what if a few men, women, and children die?

    You're having fun.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Mac

    A racist is a racist the modern Nazis’ don’t go around in brown shirts (or not most of them) and many KKK supporters don’t go around in bed sheets but so what as I’ve said these people have not changed their views or attitudes and would go back to murder (as the KKK did) if they could get away with it.



    And I’m sure that many of Hitler’s supporters thought of themselves in the same way as did those that accepted what the KKK were doing and did nothing to stop it but hey they didn’t actually join in.

    If someone thinks others are inferior then it’s likely they will have little or no sympathy for them if they are attacked and very little compulsion to stop it.

    As I’ve said it’s that old question of does evil, think it is evil. I mean many people that organised the holocaust thought of themselves as refined and cultured, I’m sure even some of the guards filling the gas chambers at Auschwitz thought of themselves as ‘fine’ people.



    You don’t condone murder yet you have already said you would kill police officers and your political opponents for political reasons.

    And the Nazis’ of 1930 were not gassing Jews all they had then was the ‘opinion’ that Jews and others were inferior but ten years later when they had the power to do so they began to shove those ‘inferiors’ in the gas chambers.

    As I said if unchecked the logical conclusion to racist ideas are never good and it seems to me that the main way racism is checked is not to say it is fine to be a racist and you are saying that to you having racist opinions and the belief that ‘others’ are inferior is ok even fine.



    Well if shows why you think racists are fine people I mean as I’ve said you seem to share their irrational outlook.

    So please explain why you think ‘Americans’ are superior human beings to the ‘British’?

    Which Americans, white, black, Native American, Hispanic all of them? Which British, the Scottish, English, Welsh, Irish or all of them, is it a racial or cultural 'superiority' or what – and how do you so emphatically KNOW ‘Americans’ are superior?
     
  5. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    They work where they've been tried. These measures haven't been tried in the United States. An oft cited example of gun control not working is Chicago; being that Illinois has such tough gun laws. I think if the states close to Illinois were to implement stricter gun control there would be a decline in the availability of black market weaponry, and thus, a decline in gun deaths overall.

    I don't know a lot about Australia's or Britain's policies. There are other countries where gun control works. The only problem with adopting those sorts of premises here being that the Second Amendment affords people the right to bear arms, and that people already have their guns; you can't just stop them from buying them. I think buyback programs work but it doesn't make me feel all the way safe. But I think short of amending the second amendment there should be a buyback in Chicago following all this killing that we hear about every week.
     
  6. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    No death is "acceptable," however when dealing with statistics, banning something that was 3% effective in the crime used is rather extreme. Rifles have killed less people than hands and feet yet that's what gun controllers want to ban.

    I don't think I ever said you can more targets faster with semi auto. I did however said that automatic fire really only put a bunch of rounds into fewer targets. Also me saying that the reason why we have machine guns is because they hold more ammo and is psychologically devastating to hear automatic fire directed towards you does not negate the fact that soldiers also fear being shot. In fact, that's the primary psychological effect of hearing automatic fire. If a bunch rounds is heading your way in rapid succession then there's a higher probability of you getting shot.
     
  7. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    He said there were good people on both sides. There were people protesting the removal of the statue who werent neo nazis or racists of any sort. They were just there to protest the statue removal.

    Sure. They can also walk around town with underwear on their heads if they want to. As long as you're not infringing on someone else's rights or endangering them in any way, you can do pretty much whatever.
     
  8. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

    I'm for any gun control measure that actually works and doesn't infringe upon the second amendment. For example I believe that we should have stiffer punishment on gun related crime. I also believe that felons deemed too dangerous to own a gun shoukd be deemed too dangerous to walk the streets.
     
  9. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Since this is off topic, I'll just answer the question as to how I know that we Americans are better than you. The answer is because we are and because 'Murica.
     
  10. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Bht the surtounding states have less violent crime and gun homicides than Chicago. How can a state transfer something it doesn't have?

    States and cities that already implement buyback proframs are very ineffective. People will only turn in guns they either don't use or is beyond repair like a factory new Keltec (gun owner joke. Basically Keltec is a trash company.) Plus, why would a criminal turn in a gun for $200 when makes double or triple that amount per week selling drugs?
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I'm glad we can agree that no innocent deaths related to guns is acceptable.
    However, saying that because only 3% of the innocent people in that crowd were killed or wounded, and that is acceptable, negates your previous statement, as there were 58 innocent deaths in that 3%, and well or 500 wounded
    You're playing games with statistics.

    I'm glad you agree that the psychological effect of machine guns is not due to the noise they make, but rather to the greater chance of being hit by the amount of firepower generated per second. That's how repressive fire works, fear of being hit, not the noise.
    Hence the number of dead and wounded in Las Vegas.
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The statue was being legally removed by order of the city council, which had deemed it racist and inappropriate. Charlottesville is a leading liberal town and the decision to remove the statue, as voted on, upset the white nationalists who vowed to make it a symbol of their racist agenda. They provoked the conflict. There was no conflict until they showed up.
    Spencer and his allies made clear their intention to provoke others when they illegally marched with burning torches the night before their legal protest, and when they violated the terms of their legal protest the next day.
    Anyone who supported their protest after the act they put on an Friday night knew what they were doing and knew why the protest against the removal was organized. It wasn't due to the aesthetics of the statue.
    Anyone with a brain knew the statue had come to represent racism, at least for the purposes of Spencer's protest.
    There were no good people protesting the removal of that statue Friday night or Saturday, unless you consider those outsiders who disputed the legal removal of a statue by the citizens of the town it was in, and that had come to represent racism.

    You can't erroneously yell fire in a crowed movie theater.
    The problem at Charlottesville was that the police didn't have the balls to cancel the Saturday march after the illegal Nazi show that was put on Friday night.
     
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  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Your study was inconclusive in every category except suicide which showed a decrease.
    In addition it tested for all forms of violence, not just violence by guns.

    No gun control law violates the 2nd amendment except the complete banning of civilian guns and the 2nd didn't prohibit that until 2008 with The District of Columbia vs Heller.
    Prior to 2008 citizens only had the right to own weapons if connected with an organized lawful militia or while in service to the government.
    In other words, a town such as Washington D.C. could prohibit any civilian from owning or carrying a weapon in their jurisdiction and by extension the federal government could do the same if it so desired.
    From 1787 until 2008, 221 years, you had no right to own a firearm outside of those outlined exceptions.
     
  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The surrounding states are not Chicago. Chicago has unique problems that are increased by the importation of guns from other areas.
    For example, I can live on a very peaceful street in my town. But if I go a few blocks away the environment can radically change. Guns might not be a problem on my street, but a few blocks away they can be.

    Buyback campaigns are only ineffective if the motivation for turning in the guns is not sufficient to overcome the motive to keep them.
    Make it worthwhile and people will turn in their guns and then go elsewhere to secure more and turn them in for the ample reward.

    For example, provide me twice as much money as the gun would cost me on the open market and I'll go to gun shows, buy new guns and turn in as many as you'll pay me for.
     
  15. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Again, the same thing could've accompleshed with an unmodified AR. When dealing with the circumstances such as the shooting, it wouldn't make much of a difference if it was full auto or semi.
     
  16. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Actually, it was ANTIFA that provoked the riots.

    There were the oath keepers that provided security and tgere were peaceful protester unattached to the neo nazis.

    ANTIFA was there illegally too.
     
  17. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Do you have evidence?
     
  18. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    And what makes you think criminals will show up to a bunch of copsto give up there guns?
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    No it couldn't.
    You still don't understand rate of fire.
    Maybe if I get around to it I'll do the math for you, but I might not waste my time.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Actually no it wasn't.

    The Oath Keepers, formed by a disbarred lawyer, encourage their members to violate the Constitution.
    The U.S. Army has been forbidden to interact or acknowledge them when they assemble outside of recruitment centers.
    They ignored police orders in Ferguson.
    They have threatened a U.S.District judge, and threatened an armed blockage in the arrest of Kim Davis.
    One of their members was fired for assaulting Don Lemon of CNN on live TV and boasted that "I'm also a killer. I've killed a lot, and if I need to I'll kill a whole bunch more."[51]
    They have also participated in other illegal activities.

    I don't know what the tgere are.


    Members of ANTFA weren't there illegally, they also have a right to assemble.
     

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