How the "ABB"-ers cost Kerry the election

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank11272004.html

 

"Indeed, if African Americans and labor announced they were open to a third party alternative, the death of the Democratic Party would be in sight and a real party of the people could take their place. That is where we must go."

This should be made into billboards and posters.

 

The idea of a "real party of the people" (read: socialism) is just not a popular concept with the American people. What makes you think that the Green Party or something similar to it could step up to the plate if the Democrats suddenly vanished?

 

Neither the dems,or repubs are going anywhere.They are to intrenched to disappear.However,a third or forth VIABLE political party(ies) I believe would shake up the status quo enough to really start listening to the people.IMHO.

 

Maybe nuclear war will change the outcome??? Homebudz, I dig the stache!

 

Perhaps the fact that we didn't try hard enough to get out the vote and ensure their were enough voting machines in the inner cities lost Kerry the election? Who knows? He only really lost by a hundred or so thousand votes and whether or not Media crashed the Republican party had little or nothing to do with it.

Most of the people I know who didn't vote for Kerry didn't because they thought he was full of crap. This sort of thing just confirms it to them.

 

Dems and Reps are two sides to the same coin. Even if Kerry had won, I doubt we'd see much of a change. These elites work for their fellow elites. When it come to the elites, there is no Democrats and Republicans. Just a bunch of greedy assholes out to serve their own cause and those of their brethren.

Still, how can it be ignored that the election was either stolen and/or rigged? The evidence is overwhelming. But of course we're not going to hear about it on FOX or MSNBC.

 

well that's a given, unless an explosive, unprecedented discovery was made, and even then CNN and CBS probably wouldn't return the phonecalls.

It's up to us.

Kandahar. Socialism? blah blah...bl bl, blah blah, bl bl bl BLAH. Blow it out your ass. It has nothing to do with the traditional forms of socialism seen throughout history. What we're aiming for is something completely new. The globalization of popular democracy. If you can't participate or at least observe quietly and peacefully, then walk away and play your videogames.

 

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you needs to just shut up or leave. Nice ideology! Did you pull that out of Joe McCarthy's memoirs? You're no different than the fascists you decry. You simply have a different ideology that you seek to oppress people with.

You want the "globalization of popular democracy"...that sounds like it's right out of Karl Rove's playbook. After all, the globalization of popular democracy is the neoconservative's goal too even though their methods of attaining it are just as unsavory as yours.There's nothing new about that belief.

 

"After all, the globalization of popular democracy is the neoconservative's goal too"

It is??!!??!! Why didn't you tell us sooner...we would've stopped protesting and began celebrating!
Oh jeez.
You have a wonderful knack for being wrong. Over and over and over again, you're assumptions prove inaccurate.
When Karl Rove, et al. talk about globalizing "democracy" (and they sure don't very often), it's doublespeak. It's PR spin. **they don't really mean what they are saying**. Get it? They don't really want a world of democratic cultures. I, along with countless others, have done our share of research on these issues. What they want is a world of fascist-corporate/military control over the entire planet, resources, and PEOPLE. This is almost accepted as common knowledge across the globe.

My ideology seeks to "oppress"? I assure you that's not the case LOL (I think you know that deep down). For someone who talks so much, you have so little to say. You're the type of person who would label anti-capitalist protesters "terrorists", wouldn't you now.

 

I don't see any evidence that the Bush administration is insincere on its desire to bring democracy to the rest of the world... I just think that they're misguided in the ways that they seek to do that, and incompetent in the actual implementation of those ideas. But whether or not they're sincere is irrelevant, because most neoconservatives actually believe that agenda even if the Bush administration does not.

They certainly seem to want American hegemony, that's for sure. Military control is just their misguided method of achieving it, not their desired end result.

You said a minute ago that if I don't agree with you, I should just keep quiet and play video games. That seems pretty oppressive to me.

Not unless they're blowing up buildings and killing people. If they're just protesting, they're merely misguided.

 

"because most neoconservatives actually believe that agenda even if the Bush administration does not."

most? how do you know that? are you friends with some of them? do you have some insider knowledge? There's no evidence to back that up.

"They certainly seem to want American hegemony, that's for sure. Military control is just their misguided method of achieving it, not their desired end result."

ha, you just said it: their desired end result is American hegemony!! which would mostly likely entail a global police state. that seems pretty ominous to me...let's hear what excuse you'll have for that, as you're pretty good at playing 'devil's attorney'.

"You said a minute ago that if I don't agree with you, I should just keep quiet and play video games. That seems pretty oppressive to me."

It does? Obviously you've never been oppressed. It would be oppressive if I came to your house and physically MADE you keep quiet and play video games. What I said was dismissive, and maybe callous, but not fascist or oppressive lol.

"If they're just protesting, they're merely misguided."

!!! are you serious??!! are you saying that any protester who's protesting anything at all is misguided? I hope not, because if you are, then you have absolutely no room to call ANYONE misguided. Man, it's people like you who *should* shut up and play video games (and most do, thankfully).

 

I guess I just side with John Locke on this one, in that I believe most people are basically good. Liberal or conservative, I think most people want what is best for the world as a whole. I don't believe for one second that 30-40% of Americans (who I would describe as neocons) actually want a global police state. Maybe you're right that the Bush Administration does, maybe not. But when I refer to "neoconservatives" I'm usually referring to the movement as a whole, not necessarily the specific people in power.

The attitude of the Bush administration seems to be "American ideals of democracy need to be spread throughout the world, whether you like it or not." I do think that they want democracy abroad, but don't have any problem invading countries in order to achieve that goal.

No. Your question was about anti-capitalist protesters, not protesters in general. There are plenty of things that need to be protested. Capitalism is not one of them.

 

C'mon, give us a break. I voted for Kerry. The average person like you and me didn't really have a choice did we? Besides, with fraud it doesn't really matter who you vote for.