Often when I'm thinking about building a dwelling someday, I wonder how primitive I could live. I tend to want to take things "all the way" so to speak. OK, I may be a bit obsessive compulsive, but I don't like living with contradictions. Sometimes, I feel that living with "green" technology that all had to be manufactured and shipped to me would be living as a hypocrite. You see, I feel that manufacturing and industrialization as a whole is not sustainable, and niether is agribusiness (huh, and I was in ag classes). To me, living as a gatherer is the only truly sustainable way. That is what nature intended, and if humans were in their place, the ecosytem would remain balanced. To answer my own question, I couldn't give up the Internet. I just don't have enough like minded people around me, and I need to communicate with others like me. I could hand wash clothes, and wash them less often. Also, I could possibly use only a cellar instead of a fridge (I don't drink milk, or use much dairy products at all). I could do witout lights, or a hot water heating system provided that I didn't have to attend school or a job, and therefore have to be bathed early and often. I'd want forks, spoons, knives, an axe, a scythe, bowls, cups, pots, pans, blankets, towels, candles, and a laptop with a wireless connection, and one solar panel to charge it. That's what I think, then I consider, "well, what about warm water". I reason, "burning wood isn't efficient, and puts out carbon dioxide, and uses trees". Then if I take on water heating, even passive, I want indoor plumbing. I think to myself, "yeah, it would be hard to do dishes and wash clothes in the winter, and how about bathing". So, in reality, I start off only wanting a bit of solar power for one laptop, with all else being "hand tool" type stuff, then before long, I'm wanting indoor plumbing, compact florescent lights, and a passive solar set up. Then, I worry that no woman would want to live with me without the indoor plumbing and lights. Huh, what about TV?