How Many More Ages Before We See What We Were?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by NoxiousGas, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter

    The thing is, how can we ensure enough people realize this before it is too late.
     
  2. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    i don't think we can ensure anything.

    all i know of to do, is try to illustrate what people could have, if their poorly thought out priorities weren't destroying it.

    there's different ways to do this, depending on what talents different people have,
    (visual art, music, politics, writing, probably many others)

    of course that leaves people free to misinterpret,
    but anything they're not, too many knee jerk reject even considering out of hand.

    there are tipping points we have already past that it is too late for,
    but we don't know how many yet remain that we may not yet have.

    anything we expect can always turn out different then we expect it to,
    but those who choose to bury their heads
    in assuming nothing will come of what we've been careless about,
    are completely whistling in the dark.
     
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  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member

    Why do we never get an answer
    When we're knocking at the door
    With a thousand million questions
    About hate and death and war?
    http://youtu.be/l2lIbp1XYpM​
    To learn as we grow old​
    The secrets of our souls.
     
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  4. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    Because the truth is hard to swallow, that's the war of love is for...

    and when you stop and think about it you won't believe it's true that all the love you've been giving has all been meant for you...

    and if you could see what it's done to me to lose the love I knew could safely lead me to the land that I once knew...
     
  5. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter

    When I said 'ensure' I was only really using a turn of phrase. But actually thinking about it, I agree that in a total and absolute kind of way we can't ensure anything.
    Still, the state manages to ensure that most people pay their taxes.
    The media manages to ensure that people's minds are filled with junk and distortions of all kinds.
    Supermarkets ensure that every shopping trip means a pile of plastic packaging.

    But I should have said perhaps something like 'what can be done to help people to see the dilemma we are in'.

    Have to say you addressed that anyway. I'd just add that we can do small things in our lifestyle and buying choices, recycle stuff - many small things.

    Probably we have passed certain tipping points. Sure I don't need to recite the litany of the various kinds of damage we've done and are still busy doing to nature. We can't foresee all the consequences. Scientists have their models, they may be accurate in a broad sense.

    To assume nothing will come of our negative actions, or refuse to look at the evidence even, as some do, is indeed to bury your head in the sand.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member

    According to Ken Wilber .1% of the population of the world is at an Instinctual level. (infants, senility, etc.: they have 0% power)
    10% are Animistic (gangs, tribes: 1% power)
    20% Egocentric (gang leaders, feudal lords: 5% power)
    40% Mythic (fundamentalism, totalitarianism: 30% power)
    30% Scientific (Wall Street, industry, materialism: 50% power)
    10% Sensitive (Ecology, single payer health care, idealism: 15% power)

    1% Integrative (Systems, natural flows, natural ranking: 5% power)
    .1 % Holistic (Integration of the subjective and objective, encompasses entire reality: 1% power)

    Less than 2% of the world population is at 2nd tier thinking, although some areas are ahead of others such as Europe and to a lesser degree the U.S.

     
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  7. Ged

    Ged Rhetorical Juvenile.

    How do I know I'm the same as you anyway and your conclusions.I'm my own entity here. Find very few correspondences. I imagine I've landed on an alien planet and make use of the things I find,
     
  8. bumpy52

    bumpy52 Active Member

    Hello..? This is me, is that you?
     
  9. Ged

    Ged Rhetorical Juvenile.

    It's like there is this tendency to assume we're all on the same planet. On the bus today I was thinking how we are all different Worlds in our heads orbiting each other, but we often assume other's have the same reality as us. So I tried doing exchange of self, like a cubist montage of perception. This helps with dissolving of the ego and not to think such selfish thoughts.
     
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter

    Again, the problem seems to be what can be done about this? If you tell people they're only half 'grown up' mostly you are certain to get a negative reaction. With only 1.4 million people at the top 2 levels likely to see any merit in this kind of analysis (maybe some of the 10% of 'sensitives' too) it's hard to see what practical steps can be taken.
    Probably the herd will continue to be the dominant force, maybe until its too late.
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member

    It would seem to require a multiple approach.

    First by example, then a liberal education for all, and by liberal I mean:
    We also need to educate the public about how systems work and interrelate including biological, environmental, political, economic, industrial, and scientific.
    All religions need to embrace each other and accept change within themselves, rejecting dogma.

    We need to better equalize wealth and the distribution of goods between the haves and have nots through fair laws and governments.

    ..and that's all I got for right now.
     
  12. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

    Yes, but that would not answer the question in the op. Partial truths only cover a certain aspect of the whole, a detail of the bigger picture, and knowing partial truths will not enable us to see reality as it is.

    This is why I had stated that ' A finite instrument ( intellect-mind) cannot perceive the infinite or the whole. '

    The mind can be better developed and wider, but it is still finite, and hence incapable of perceiving the infinite or whole as it is. You can increase a balloon's size constantly by blowing hard, but it still will not cover the whole of existence.


    Consciousness , I would say, is a much better instrument to perceive the infinite rather than the intellect, as per the testimony of the ancient sages and enlightened masters in present as well.

    But the focus of modern education these days lies in building up the intellect for materialistic purposes rather than the Consciousness, and hence the reason why we feel this all to be so strange, mysterious and new.


    It's almost like the four blind men (blinded by modern education ) studying an elephant and giving it their own personal interpretations varying from each other and the truth as well.
     
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  13. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter

    Agreed. My feeling is though that under the present power hierarchies that dominate human life, such changes are not likely.
     
  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member

    Well, this was the whole premise of the 60's "revolution" that only had limited effect so far.

    We were going to change the world, it seems we were just off by a year or two in our projection of when it would happen.
     
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  15. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter

    At the present time we seem to have gone into a bit of a regress. But let's not abandon hope!
     
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  17. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    [​IMG]
     
  18. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter

    One solution might be to bring some form of meditation into the classroom. The only problem I can see there is that it too might well get subordinated to material or even personal goals, as happens frequently in the 'new age' movement or the increasingly popular 'secular Buddhism'.

    On the subject of mind though. I don't know if you're aware of the writings of Sri Aurobindo? He says there are higher levels of mind beyond the thinking intellect where mind itself becomes an instrument of the higher consciousness.
     
  19. Ged

    Ged Rhetorical Juvenile.

    "The World is all that is the case" - Ludwig Wittgenstein.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member

    I would call it "Mindfulness" or living in the present moment.

    It could take the form of 5 minutes of silence at the beginning and perhaps end of the school (and work) day.
    Religious types could view it as moment of personal prayer or soul searching and secular types could view it as personal reflection.
     
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