how many illegals do we need to deport

Ain't that the truth? (Only they're not stuck on a bus)

It's amazing to me how far democrats stray from main street to focus on massive wedge issues that will take decades or even centuries to solve. But I also realize why they have slipped into this, lazy politics. And this was epitomized by Hillary's complete lack of performance during the 2016 election cycle.

After almost a decade of being able to take the gloves off (and put the masks on) the democrats have reached deeper and deeper into their fantasy collection bag to see who can outdo who in shifting leftward. As if being the most left will net any more rewards than being the most right has worked for idolized republicans.

I expected the first debates to be a confusing mess, and they were. I especially LOVED the performance of Marianne Williamson. Aside from all the shit they promised to give away for "free", and the mangling of Spanish, I didn't hear a lot of ideas about getting our country out of the shit. What about the precarious house of cards our economy has become? Why is infrastructure on the back burner, again? (Likely because so many infrastructure projects are longer than 4 years) And if we're energy independent, why is gasoline still fluctuating wildly?

And is it me, or do avocados seem to be downright cheap and plentiful these days?

 

quite envious of all who experience this

 

They're like $2 per avocado here. Is that cheap? I'm honestly not sure

 

That's a tiny bit cheaper than I pay but not much. I would love to live in a country where I could grow them.

 

So should the United States stop importing goods from China and other countries? More protectionism? For other views, see:
Should we have open borders?
https://thefederalist.com/2016/01/2...d-trump-says-about-trade-with-china-is-wrong/
https://therealnews.com/stories/tru...ds-china-a-distraction-to-benefit-of-the-rich
Why Trump's 'get tough on China' policy is counterproductive | Michael F Fuchs
Trump's exports-good, imports-bad trade policy, debunked by an economist
Why Donald Trump’s Trade War Will Fail[/QUOTE]

 

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Absolutely. If you read my answer carefully and consider the whole picture you will understand why.

The problem with the so called economic professionals is that they are blinded my the huge profits of the import companies and seem to put them ahead of the long term well-being of the country.
Once we have gone down the slippery slope and fallen into the hole, getting out of it will be a long hard process and few people consider the pain as worth it for the well being of future generations.
You only have to look at cities like Detroit to see where it all went wrong a couple of decades ago. The criminals and drug dealers who people tend to blame today are simply the rats that moved in AFTER the collapse of the economy.

Consider a man who has a good job and rents rather than purchase his property. He can live in a better house than he could afford to buy and has no responsibility for the property or it's maintenance.
Then he retires.... unable to afford the rent, no money, no home and no inheritance for his family. In effect, he has worked his whole life to make the landlord rich.

The economics of a country work the same way, but in this case the landlord is China.
Perhaps the most shocking thing of all is that going back to the man and his house.
In London today (look a my original answer again) their is a 70% chance that his landlord would be Chinese, Russian, or a drug cartel laundering money.

The west is selling up to the east and we are just too blinkered to see it.
If it is not too late to reverse the situation, it will take 3 decades of pure hell to achieve it.
From 1970 to 1990 people could do little or no PRODUCTIVE work (sitting in an office and transacting other peoples money is not productive). Meanwhile they could live like a lord. Now we are paying the price.

Their is also another situation with job losses due to automation and computerization. Another subject for discussion.!!!!!
Some examples from the UK,

Tube network. No booking halls. Computerized signalling. 60% drop in platform staff. Driver-less trains within 5 years.

Major electrical manufacturing company. Staff in 1980, 1,200... Current staff 14, despite output being more than doubled.

UK national savings bank. Staff in 1980, 6,000,...Today, less than 100.

New Sainsburys trial supermarket (designed by Amazon), airport conveyor style shelving. Items scanned on smartphone (which removes security alarm code) straight into your bag and out the door,,, Previous staff or 100 cut to 5.

Cardiac surgery performed by robots and procedures such as TAVI (trans-catheter aortic valve implant) cutting open heart procedures by 80%.


I could go on with these examples all night, but will any of us have a job 30 years from now.
I could give you some examples that would shock you to the core, but Jane (who works for the UK government) our daughter (a UK police officer) and myself would all end up in prison.
Even 3 of the examples above are borderline officially secret and none of the information is public.

 

Wilsjane

But that is what people voted for.

I’ve been warning about the free market ideology (that became called neoliberalism) and what it was and could do since Maggie’s day (and I was not the only one). I stopped voting Labour when they became seduced by it.

But people kept voting for it.

Even now the neoliberals that are pushing for a hard Brexit are doing so because they think the EU is too ‘socialist’ and think they can set up a neoliberal utopia in Brexit Britain.

And people still go along with it.

Well that’s what neoliberals wanted and pushed for and the people of the UK voted for it.

They sold off or allowed to be sold off large chunks of our manufacturing base or welcomed in foreign competition, or let British firms wither by refusing to nurture and encourage them – that was good that was the free market way. And they didn’t care where the money came from or where the dividends went.

And the people of the UK voted for that.

It all happened in plain sight and the warnings were given - when the public was sold off to become private and hidden behind wall of confidentiality, many shrugged, - when the unions got destroyed, who cared - when our public services got run down and starved of investment, did we raise hell?

And now who is kicking up a fuss over zero-hour contracts and warehouse workers been watched every second?

This was not inevitable this was chosen, a majority of the UK voting population chose the world we are now live in

They ignored the warning just as people are ignoring the warning over Brexit, dismissing them as ‘project fear’

 

Wilsjane

I’ve been bang that particular drum for years and gone into it at length and in detail and I’d love it if you began another thread on the subject

Here are a few short and simple comments

To me the worse possible system to deal with it is the Social Darwinist based free market/neoliberal model. It is about the maximisation of profits and to hell with the consequences and is totally opposed to any meaningful redistribution of wealth. You’d probably end up first with a Dickensian hell for many people and then when a tipping point came (people with no money to buy the products) a complete collapse.

A Keynesian model is better it has the provision of taxing companies and corporations to cover social needs, but it is based on 20th Century ideas of mass employment in industry with wages going to feed consumerism.

So we need something new – I’d first say that it would probably need to be global or at the very least international, we need to counter economic globalisation with a social globalisation, to counteract the power of transnational corporations and borderless capital.

Then there needs to be an understanding that it’s not about personal wealth or income but social quality of life, free healthcare, public transport, housing, education and such. With some type of universal basic income covering other things.