How Do You Feel About The No Dakota Access Pipeline Protest

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mountain Valley Wolf, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    You haven't answered the hard questions. He closes Guantanamo. Where do they go? Back home? Depending on where "home" is, they could be re-imprisoned and tortured--guilty or not! Home for most of them is Yemen. Or they could take up arms against us, as many previously released already has. Congress requires Obama to make sure that doesn't happen. And not many countries want them. What then?

    Yes, I guess Obama could use U.S. veto power against Israel without the support of Congress. That would certainly be an important decision in the context of domestic and international politics. The congressional Republicans and FOX would have a cow and make clear that Obama was a renegade. How would he enforce his resolution?

    As I thought I explained, voting is not "pointless" although it is constrained by big money. I mentioned Citizens United and the point of a judicial appointment that would overturn that decision. I also think it's less likely that some candidates will reverse years of civil rights gains than others. With Sessions, an unreconstructed segregationist, as our Attorney General, I'd expect the trend toward rolling back civil rights to continue. And with an all-Republican government, we could see major cutbacks in social programs that would make a difference in the lives of a lot of Americans. You still haven't identified the kind of system you'd like to get to and how you'd go about it. Until you do that, I have trouble taking you seriously. What major power does a better job?
     
  2. storch

    storch banned

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    Let me get this straight. After releasing and transferring all of the prisoners at Guantanamo . . . except for the remaining sixty, the U.S. is suddenly worried about what will happen to them. I see. Why do you believe that they will be re-imprisoned when they are not guilty of anything? And even if they were imprisoned, what is the difference to the innocent prisoners; they're being held indefinitely anyway.

    You don't understand. The U.S. doesn't use its veto power against Israel. It uses it in defense of Israel's blatant violation of International Law concerning its continual building of illegal settlements.

    And I guess the point of your last paragraph is that if I can't come up with a better system than the "money rules" system that we have now, then mindlessly voting for one money-servant over another is not pointless. And you have trouble taking me seriously? Explain your reasoning.
     
  3. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2016/dec/04/army-corps-of-engineers-denies-easement/

    Sorry to interrupt but fanfuckingtastic news guys - the army corps of engineers and the Obama administration has denied the final permit for the pipeline's current route

    Of course, as this article points out, it can be appealed under the Trump administration

    But still a win for now. So glad Obama decided to take a stand on this.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Yes, the project will be re-routed.The Corps apparently agreed with the protestors that water resources of the United States would be jeopardized by the project. So glad the demonstrators persisted and didn't just throw in the towel on the theory that "you can't fight city hall'!
     
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  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Why bother. Apart form the fact that the whole line of discussion is off topic, my points were:(1) Obama is constrained by law on where he sends the prisoners. The options are limited. Why do I believe they would be reimprisoned if they weren't guilty? It all depends on what countries they're sent to There are authoritiarian regimes in the Middle East that don't like terrorists or even suspected terrorists. Think of Egypt. Then there are those that do like terrorists. Thirty percent of the terrorists who have been released are thought to have resumed their terrorist activities, and Obama is supposed to assure that that doesn't happen.

    (2) Yes, I know that the U.S uses its veto power to block resolutions against Israel. My point is that if Obama adopted a unilateral policy at variance with that of the U.S. Congress and U.S. public opinion, any resolution that got through would be weakened from the standpoint of its perceived authority. What would it accomplish if Obama went on record against Israel when it appeared to be a frolic of his own?

    (3) Yes, you got the point of my last paragraph. Unless you can show that there's a better system and a reasonable prospect of getting there, your complaints are just so much cynical grousing. And now I'd like to bring this off-topic exchange to a close and let the other participants celebrate their well-earned victory.
     
  6. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    I read that too. It's literally the first headline on MSN.com (I have msn as a homepage among others: several tabs = my home pages). That's exciting. The protesters along with the native American tribe involved must be thrilled. I haven't been following it fearing that it was a doomed process or a lost cause. Looks like they made it happen, for now at least.
     
  7. Aerianne

    Aerianne Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  8. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    Its a day late and dollar short for symbolic gestures. Obama didn't have the billionaire mayor of NYC thrown in jail for arresting 26 reporters and he didn't insist the bankers who committed fraud and collapsed the world economy be thrown in jail either. He can beg the public not to riot and stop executing cops in public, but his words are falling on deaf ears and when Trump is in office at least there will be less pretense of actually having rule of law in this country.
     
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  9. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    I was talking about this specifically, i dont think this thread is appropriate to get into all of Obama's shortcomings. He did the right thing in this specific instance.

    Trump is actually invested in the company who owns this pipeline so..
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    He did the wrong thing by merely pandering to the democratic party. Begging and pleading with people to obey the rule of law when you yourself refuse to enforce it and merely throw symbolic gestures at them is asking for even more trouble.
     
  11. Luna Lovesong

    Luna Lovesong Members

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    I heard veterans were going out there to protect the protectors
     
  12. Wu Li Heron

    Wu Li Heron Members

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    Occupy Wall Street had veterans as well, but that did no good. One veteran they shot in the head with a tear gas canister and gave him brain damage. Like Obama, they talk the talk and refuse to walk the walk whenever money is involved. The country is becoming divided between those supporting money on two sides and those caught in the middle. Similar to the civil war where the south saw the writing on the wall and decided to go down with a fight and make the industrial north pay the price. When everyone is screaming no one is listening and its pointless and self-destructive to come between them unless you have the overwhelming numbers.
     
  13. Luna Lovesong

    Luna Lovesong Members

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    that's just awful
     
  14. storch

    storch banned

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  15. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    i feel fairly simply, if i haven't already said it, that oil and coal do NOT promote progress or innovation.
    they only line pockets indefferent to causing harm.

    water we can all drink without making us ill, is something everyone everywhere needs,
    it is something most sane people consider a right, and certainly, no one of at least average intelligence, denies it being a necessity.

    that's that basic bottom line here.
    greed versis the well being of everybody.

    then on top of that, you have the proponents of greed committing aggregious and totally gratuitous dessicration.
    and you have supposedly democratic government, being manipulate into taking the side of greed,
    against the best interests, really, of not just traditional indiginous victims of such abuse, but again, really, everybody.
     
  16. deleted

    deleted Visitor

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNNl3C0qvKg
     
  17. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    ^ People think this will be used to shoot down drones used by the protestors----shooting down their drones is actually illegal, but the sheriff department has actively done this.
     
  18. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    how i feel about the pipeline, dapl or kxl either one, or any of several others, less well known, is that they shouldn't be built. even if they were not monuments to premeditated callousness.

    the problem isn't dependence on 'foreign' oil. the problem is dependence on oil. period.

    there is of course, a further problem with dapl in particular (also kxl and several others), even beyond desecrating the sacred, we are talking about direct threats to domestic water supplies.

    so yes, the people risking their health, safety and even lives, to delay and blockade these monuments to short sighted avarice, and outright belligerence, are the true heroes of our age.

    i guess everything i have to add at this point has already been said, but its still worth not forgetting, ever.

    the one comfort is that the whole world knows what's going on here, and how immoral the priorities motivating the construction of these pipelines really are.
     
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  19. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    another treaty has been broken. the chumpster's u.s. should now be kicked out of any and all international agreements until it learns to respect them.
    every leader of every nation on the planet should now sanction and embargo anything to do with the u.s. until it walks back this blatant violation of international law.
    (i am of course refering to the standing rock removal of februray 23, 2017)
     
  20. Noserider

    Noserider Goofy-Footed Member

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    Reprehensible for sure, but also, par for the course. American history is littered with instances like this. Our government has never had much of an intention to honor agreements and treaties with the Native populations. We act like the Indian Wars ended with Wounded Knee--that's what history tells us. But I think it's ongoing.

    This is just the latest battle.
     
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