How do you believe?

Discussion in 'Sanctuary' started by Mountain Valley Wolf, May 10, 2013.

  1. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    I am curious as to the dynamic behind your beliefs. Therefore I would like to start a poll for Christians to answer. Some of you might feel that both answers are equally part of why you believe---in this case try to pick the one that seems to be stronger.

    Please respond to the poll as to why your religion is true to you:

    Is it because of experiencing things that are non-rational and perhaps even supernatural such as things we would call miracles or synchronicities?


    Is is because you understand it in a rational way, have studied the Bible, and its teachings and you therefore know it to be true (or at least take the existential leap that it is true)?
  2. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    You might add a "neither of the above category". I've never experienced a miracle, to my knowledge, although I had a "moment of clarity" as a result of an experience while reading a passage in Genesis. Although I acknowledge sychronicities, I can't say that my faith has much to do with them. But I'm also not a Bible thumper. Critical study of the Bible is important, but I also rely on reason from the integrated complexity of nature and the obvious merits of Jesus' teachings and example. My faith is, to use Luther's expression, a "joyful bet" on Christianity.
  3. Ukr-Cdn

    Ukr-Cdn Striving towards holiness

    Little of both.

    As a Catholic I cannot deny miracles (e.g. the Mass etc), but I generally fit into the second category.
  4. Lynnbrown

    Lynnbrown Firecracker

    I wish I could be as learned and eloquent as Okie, Ukr and yourself, MV Wolf...

    I had the bible basically drilled into me from early childhood. Then there also were always, my entire life, things unexplained by science...which I experienced and witnessed. There have been some very hard times for me in which my faith was shaken, and badly. Yet I always was "led" back to things spiritual.

    My faith, or belief system in God (and the trinity) is derived from and based on study and personal experience. I also think that the bible is greatly "up for interpretation", and there are metaphysical areas that are grey...that the "typical Christian" poo-poos on.
  5. roamy

    roamy Senior Member

    with faith
  6. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    I guess I wrote that a bit poorly---by rationally understanding one's Christianity, I did not mean for it to simply mean Bible study---that was supposed to be an example (I don't know how to edit that). A joyful bet would fall under the category of existential leap----I would say that you rationally understand your religion as much as you can, and then make an existential leap for the rest----which would place you in the second category------thank you for sharing Okiefreak!!!
  7. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    Don't fool yourself Lynnbrown, you are eloquent! It seems you have had both experiences to build your belief, though I wonder if you would fit more into the second category. But if your reason for belief is more based on things that you saw, which were unexplained by science, than the things you have been taught and studied, then you would fit in the first category.

    Thank you for sharing.
  8. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    Thank you fpr sharing UKr-Cdn.

    Roamy, based on just your answer, I would place you in the second category too. I have been taught, and have been shown and actually experienced, that it is true, faith can move mountains----but you do have to truly believe, we can't just pretend to believe (unless it is something we really need or is meant to be). Since today we are largely focused on the physical world, i.e. rely mostly on our conscious mind which is attached to the physical world, then our belief has to make logical sense to our conscious mind. (This is the power behind motivational techniques, is that they do allow ways of using the subconscious to trick the conscious mind to believe). Therefore I would place you in the second category. But you would be in the first if the foundations of your belief are largely based on non-rational, or nonscientific experiences.

    Thank you for responding!
  9. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

    experienced/experience the above as well as other manifestations, witnessed things such as below;

    "Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
    2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
    3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
    4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
    5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
    6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
    7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
    8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
    9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God"

    my rational mind struggles with it but I can't deny it.
  10. FlowerMama

    FlowerMama Member

    Though when you travel through peaks and valley's as we all do; sometimes you can't rely on just miracles or feelings; and you rely on your study of the Bible. :)

    ~ FlowerMama
  11. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    Pretty powerful stuf Noxious Gas. Thank you for sharing.

    You too FlowerMama---but if you experience enough of the first category, I think the second (the rational side) category comes easier. Thank you for sharing.

    Now I am not placing a value on the first category over the second----that is very important to understand. I am just saying that for those who feel that the first category is the strongest, they will accept things in the second category more easily, and should put the first category as their choice.

    God has a plan for each of us, and we experience life from a different path, so there should be no value judgement whatsoever over one path or the other.
  12. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    We believe to see and see to believe. Doesn't speak to my faith but to a law of perception. A spirit reaching toward spirit in all things.

    Then why ask for an evaluation, which one greater, more useful to you, or more pertinent than the other?
  13. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

    For me it's experiencing. The Bible makes little sense to me even after years of studying. It's more a question of whether it works or not.
  14. ClintonsSon

    ClintonsSon's Me!!

    Actually I believe through what the Bible tells me. I have never, and probably will never, experienced a "miracle",etc. I was a Protestant but am leaning towards becoming a Roman Catholic. Seriously.
  15. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

    I too have to say a little of both, I have always known God but it is through my study of the Bible that I have deepened my knowledge and understanding of God.
  16. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

    The Bible is starting to make sense to me now that I'm looking at it from a perspective of living with less and less. "Selling your possessions and giving to the poor" is begining to look like true freedom.
  17. Anaximenes

    Anaximenes Senior Member

    I just wish that being responsible was reduced to doing good and escaping one's guilt. Yeah; be guilty as everyone for the environment of Oil withdrawal, production, and spillage en route; climate change, and achieve innocence for the re-possessing of objects to the common ownership to the state. :eek:
  18. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

    ya , first be free then think (make sense) . this is a correct beginning
    and the impulse to do that is trustworthy . you will be blessed .

    selling your possessions to the rich might not make sense though , or it might . i think selling stuff cheap is the usual way of getting rid of it . then pretty soon you're poor . then after that , spiritually , the gifts you have to give will derive from free , good thinking . your actions will have more power . yet you will still be poor , entitled only to survival . like ... when you really need ten dollars somebody just comes up and hands it to you , and never mind why they say they do that .

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