How can there not be a God ?

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by Purple_Haze, Jan 16, 2005.

  1. Purple_Haze

    Purple_Haze Member

    I try to think in terms of time more than space. How could the world, the universe, everything exist, if there wasn't a God ? Your answer will probably be the Big Bang, and all the scientifically proven, rational knowledge mankind has come to discover. Those are not to be disputed here, but let me ask another question : who created the bigbang ? and if it is Nature, then who created Nature ? If it is time, than who created time ? etc. The way i see, you go up from reason to reason, and you end up with God. Or at least, something. Some force, that created all this, all we see or feel, just Everything. I may sound like I'm stoned out of my mind, but i really cannot think otherwise than this atm. There has to be a start to evolution, somewhere.
     
  2. Mr MiGu

    Mr MiGu King of the Zombies

    Then what created god, that force, or that something?
     
  3. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    I am told that even God doesn't know that.

    Atheists rightly point out that no one has been able to prove there is a God.
    Theists say that if we knew for sure, we would lose free will.
    If there is a God, I doubt it is like religion says. I would guess that things like swear words, sex, and atheism would not be an issue of any consequence to it.
     
  4. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    "If there is no God, then what created the universe?"

    "If God exists, what created God?"

    "If whatever created God exists, what created that/him/her?"

    Ever get the feeling that this question is redundant?

    Perhaps the chain goes on for infinity. If not, it has to stop somewhere ...
     
  5. atropine

    atropine Member

    gotta agree with every reply here..

    especially..
    very nicely worded bg
     
  6. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    Thanks atropine, glad to hear you agree. And Hikaru, I agree that the question is redundant. Sort of like 'what happened before the big bang?'

    The chain of what led to what led to what is indeed something that is incomprehensible to me.
    It is the same as the concept of what makes up a sub atomic particle, then what makes up that? How small can it go? Is there a universe inside the nucleus of an atom? Is our universe inside an atom?
    It is all likely impossible to ever know.....so I will leave it be.
     
  7. atropine

    atropine Member

    yup definately agree..

    like portrayed in the movie meninblack.. theres a "galaxy" within a jewel to us, but our universe is also inside a marble to a different species.. while not exactly what hikaru and bg are saying, a similar concept...

    but yup, the main thing is, how small or how far back can it go, and, by todays standards anyway, we cannot know. people argueing the point is quite pointless really
     
  8. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    The way I see it, what is "outside" of our reality is just that: It's NOT part of "reality." That is, it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on our lives, and any drivel or babble that we compose about it is merely speculation for the purpose of expanding our minds in search of enlightenment.

    As a computer programmer, once of the most important concepts that I have learned is called "scope."

    The best way I can describe it is like this:

    You decide you want to make some pumpkin pie. So you go to the grocery store and you buy a pie crust, and some pumpkin pie stuff, and you check out, and leave.

    At any given time, while you were in the store or not, there were MANY things there. Vegetables, fruits, meats, bread, beverages ... ALL kinds of things. But, you were there to buy ONLY the materials necessary for a pumpkin pie. Everything else, whether it was there or not, was completely irrelevant.

    The same applies to life for human beings, as I see it. Sure, the numinous CAN exist, but even if it does ... what's the point in knowing that it exists, or trying to prove its existance/non-existance, if it doesn't have any relevance to what we are doing with our lives right now? The human brain isn't designed to store "everything about the universe and beyond," so learning all of the things that don't matter, doesn't really matter, in a sense.
     
  9. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    I guess you could call whatever spawned the creation of the universe "god" but that doesn't necessarily mean it is some sort of sentient being focused solely on how human beings are behaving when they are living on earth.
     
  10. Purple_Haze

    Purple_Haze Member

    Thx for all your responses. I guess we shall never know the answer or a glimpse of answer to the question of wether a God exists, and in what form. As Mr Migu said, if a God exists, then what created God ? I think this reasoning must stop somewhere and i think it stops with our uncapacity to acknowledge the notion of infinity and of abscence of start and end. If a God exists, nothing created him , for he is there since forever and will be there forever. But this is uncomprehensible to our rational mind.
     
  11. Purple_Haze

    Purple_Haze Member

    I might add that I can't find any reason why a God would choose to create a Universe. Bored ? :p
     
  12. thumontico

    thumontico Member

    Its just a hobby. He's got 7 or 8 others.
     
  13. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    If you can believe that god is infinite and forever... why cant you believe the same thing about the universe?
     
  14. Mr MiGu

    Mr MiGu King of the Zombies

    or that the universe IS god...
     
  15. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    aka pantheism
     
  16. Purple_Haze

    Purple_Haze Member

    Hmmm never really thought of it that way :eek: ...if the Universe and God are one same entity, than God is finite, since he appears at the moment of the Big Bang, when the Universe appears. Sort of a contradiction here :S
     
  17. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    Not necessarily true.

    It is quite possible that the universe is infinite in size,
    And that there are no borders to it,
    And it is also quite possible that the universe is a never-ending cycle
    Of Big Bangs, constantly exploding away from the centre,
    And then being drawn back to the middle.

    Scientific evidence is starting to draw away from this theory now,
    (Or so I hear),
    But it is still an interesting theory.

    The only problem with that theory is, of course,
    Physics.

    There are limits to physics.
    One of these limits, for example, is the fact that
    Matter cannot be created from nothing,
    At least not in this universe,
    Without outside influence.

    And yet again, even that theory cannot be proven;
    It only sounds logical.
     
  18. mart_182

    mart_182 Member

    it may sound logical, but what evidence is there that the universe didnt just appear? it sounds unlikely but could the universe not have just sprung up from nowhere?
     
  19. Mr MiGu

    Mr MiGu King of the Zombies

    it could have, but most likely well never know of the origins of everything. Both science and religion try to answer this age old question, with the only difference being that science relies on observation and reason, whereas religion relies on myth.
     
  20. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    "whereas religion relies on myth"

    By myth, I am assuming you mean "irrational human insight," correct?
     

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