How can I compassionately ... hijack your thread?

At Savatthi the Blessed Buddha said:
Bhikkhus, the uninstructed ordinary person regards form as self, or self as possessing a form, or form as inside self, or self as inside a frame of form... This, bhikkhus, is called an uninstructed ordinary person, who is bound by bondage to form, who is bound by inner and outer bondage, who neither sees the near shore nor the far shore, who grows old in bondage, who dies in bondage, who goes from this world to the next other world in bondage...

Such one regards feeling, perception, mental construction & consciousness as self or self as having feeling, perception, construction & consciousness, or feeling, perception, construction & consciousness as being inside a self, or a self as hidden inside feeling, perception, construction & consciousness!!! Such one, Bhikkhus, is called an uninstructed ordinary person who is bound by bondage, by clinging, by inner chains to feeling, perception, mental construction, and consciousness...

Such one, Bhikkhus, bound by both inner & outer bondage, who neither sees this near shore nor the far shore, who grows old in bondage, who dies in bondage, will pass on in bondage to the next world still in bondage!!!

The Grouped Sayings by the Buddha. Samyutta Nikaya 22:117 III 165

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You said "Furthermore: When there is feeling, perception, mental construction & consciousness, by clinging to, by attaching to feeling, perception, mental construction & consciousness, this identity view: 'I am this & that mental phenomena...' arises & remains! (i.e., I am this One Consciousness.)"


His point is don't go on an ego trip about being the one conciousness... or cling to different mental states, the ego can go on a trip about any concept, it can cling to any mental... the one conciousness isn't proud of itself, saying wow aren't I special... it is. it is beyond such things... It doesn't cling to anything, it is everything, what is there to cling to.. It is all. Thus it doesn't need to call itself anything, it just IS. ISNESS

Mahayana Buddhists call this Suchness! And Buddha would have approved of thier advancement from the historical Buddha teachings, because the Buddha nature is in all things... and the wisdom of Buddha encompasses all spiritual traidtions not just the historial and dualistic early buddhism.

Buddha simply is eliminating ego trips one can have about concepts...

When he says the word "conciousness" in all these teachings

He is simply meaning the lower part of conciousness...

Not the Supreme conciousness that pervades all things and it the ground of all being. But Buddha wisely refuses to call it what it is, awareness, an aware being that knows all and sees all and is all, instead he flirting around it, pointing one inward and away from ego trips... He figures beings are smart enough to realize that it is one conciousness without calling it that, for ulitimately the experience and awareness of it is beyond words... And one does not need the concept of the one conciousness to realize it despite how accurate it is scientifically of what is.

 

Buddha never taught a "Supreme consciousness". He never mentioned a "Supreme consciousness". He never indicated a "Supreme consciousness". What he did teach was that consciousness was a condition based on the arising of volition.

You, and I suspect your teacher, are (a) false teacher(s). Spreading rumors here and there that Buddha taught this or that when in fact he did offer no such teachings or thoughts.

All that he taught was the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. All his teachings revolve around those teachings. The Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path are the core of The Buddha's teachings. All teachings from there are expounding on the core teaching and in none of his teachings have there ever appeared the word(s) "Supreme consciousness".

You should not go about teaching falsities. Such false teachings will lead to rebirth in an undesirable realm.

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There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'Person'...
There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'Self'...
There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'Soul'...
There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'Identity'...
There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'Ego'...
There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'Me'...
There neither ever was, nor is now, nor will ever be any 'I'...

Since if everything changes continuously from moment to moment,
whether physical or mental, whether internal or external, & nothing
therefore can remain 'Identical' & 'Same' even for a single moment,
how can there possibly ever exist any stable 'Identity' & same 'Self' ???
The 'I-Me-Mine-Personality-Identity-Ego-&-Soul' are thus mere Mentally
Constructed Ideas & Assumed Conceptualizations, that never can be
actually observed nor verified, but is arised caused by mental clinging:

Clinging to What?
Clinging to views of personality-belief & the conceit 'I Am','Mine' & 'Self'.
Clinging to Forms, Feelings, Experiences, Constructions & Consciousness.
Clinging to Seeing, Hearing, Smelling, Tasting, Touching & Thinking.

This Cluster of Clinging is the very core of all deeply mistaken Egoism ...
This Cluster of Clinging is the very root of all Conceit, Pride & Arrogance ...
This Cluster of Clinging is first cause of repeated birth, sickness & Death ...

Remove & cure it by observing, accepting & understanding that: Any body & form, any feeling, any experience, any construction, & whatever consciousness is always changing, transient, impermanent, decaying & vanishing even while happening...

What is always decaying & vanishing is dissatisfying, frustrating, & quite painful... What is always changing & vanishing, frustrating & painful, and unsafe & uncertain, cannot correctly be regarded as neither 'I-Me-Mine' nor as any 'Self' nor as belonging to any 'Self'...!!! If it really were self, then one could keep & control it completely, by making any body, feeling, experience, construction, & consciousness stable & always pleasant!!! But one cannot even for a second control this flux...

One cannot, even for a second, stop this Change...
One cannot, even for a second, halt this Ageing...
One cannot, even for a second, avert this Decay...
One cannot, even for a second, prevent this Death...

Only the State of Nibbana is Unchanging, Eternal, Stable, Safe, Same,
Lasting, Certain, Still, Imperturbable, Ultimate & Deathless...
There is no other Alternative ...
There is no other Solution ...
There is no other Absolute ...
Go for it ! It is deep Peace !!!
It is open Freedom !!! It is sole Bliss !!!
Beyond both Being and Non-Being ...

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What are the 20 invalid Theories of an only apparently existing 'self' ?

1: My 'self' is identical with my Body; this physical matter is my 'self'.
2: My 'self' have a Body, this physical matter is owned by my 'self'.
3: My 'self' is hidden inside the Body, included within the form of the Body .
4: This Body form is hidden inside & included within my extensive 'self'.

5: My 'self' is identical with my Feelings; pain, pleasure & neither are my 'self'.
6: My 'self' have Feelings, these sensations are owned by my very 'self'.
7: My 'self' is hidden inside the Feelings, included within any sensation.
8: These Feelings are hidden inside & included within my pervading 'self'.

9: My 'self' is identical with my Perceptions, these experiences are my 'self'.
10: My 'self' have Perceptions, these experiences are owned by my very 'self'.
11: My 'self' is hidden inside these Perceptions, included in all experiences.
12: These Experiences are hidden inside & included inherently within my 'self'.
13: My 'self' is identical with my mental Constructions, activities are my' self'.
14: My 'self' have Constructions, these activities are owned by my 'self'.
15: My 'self' is hidden inside the Constructions, included in any & all activity.
16: These Constructions are hidden inside & included inherently within my 'self'.

17: My 'self' is identical with my Consciousness, this bare awareness is my 'self'.
18: My 'self' has a Consciousness, this naked awareness is owned by my 'self'.
19: My 'self' is hidden inside the Consciousness, included in all aware moments.
20: This Consciousness is hidden inside & included inherently within my 'self'.

Why are these 20 common assumptions invalid, erroneous, wrong and false ?

Because the concept of a Self inherently implies that:
1: It is something constant over time: an identical 'same self'.
2: That it is 'self'-controllable i.e. fully independent & autonomic.
3: That it is pleasant, since if self was not pleasant and the 'Self'
really was in power, it would make whatever is self become pleasant.

​

However, neither body, feeling, perception, mental construction, nor consciousness
is constant and the same even for a moment... Therefore they cannot possibly ever
qualify as a same 'self' nor be identical with any stable & definable identity...!!!
Neither is body, feeling, perception, mental construction, nor consciousness fully
controllable... Neither can they therefore ever meet the requirements of a 'self'...!!!
Neither is body, feeling, perception, mental construction, nor consciousness always
pleasant... Neither can they therefore ever contain or coincide with any 'self'...!!!

Could the assumed ‘'self'’ be a combination of any of 1-20? No so! Why not?
If 'self' is not found within any of 1-20, it cannot ever be a collection of them!

1-5-9-13-&-17 are examples of illusory identification with mere passing states...
2-6-10-14-&-18 are examples of fictitious immanence & invented ownership...
3-7-11-15-&-19 are examples of hidden inclusion in something becoming otherwise...
4-8-12-16-&-20 are examples of phony possessing as an invisible acquisition...

This doctrine of selflessness, anatta, No self, Not Anyone, Anything, Anywhere is
particular to the Buddhas. No other is able to discover, comprehend nor teach this!

The Blessed Buddha radically pointed out:

All phenomena is void of a 'self' or
of what belongs to any 'self'!
Within this frame is thus not anything
belonging to anyone, anywhere,
nor is there anything belonging to
this frame in anyone nor anywhere ...
​

The Moderate Speeches of the Buddha.
Majjhima Nikaya 106

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Well now I understand you Darrel you are a fundementalist Buddhist. Everybody getting a bad rebirth that doesn't use your map. Just like everybody is going to hell if they don't believe in Jesus.. you take everything literal, you thinks its such a serious matter. and you won't honor the validity of any other spiritual paths or teaching other then your own.

Religious fundementalists in any traditions are an insult to what Buddha realized.

You Darrel are a scar on Buddha's face.

A horrible beautiful scar.


And a total disgrace to the robes you wear.

You bring shame to your tradition.

Yet the real you is, is Buddha consciousness, that realizes it. and goes beyond all concepts.

I have nothing further to say.

 

Call it what you will to justify your false views. It doesn't really seem to matter much anyway, right?

That's It !!!

Sure you do. I've also come to realize, you can't stand it not having the "last word".

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Ganjaprince sometimes you go way too far
Actually you could make everything means something else so that it fits what you came too think, and that's what Darrelljust wrote.
I can't believe you wrote what you just did
You are the scary thing
You don't know what you should respect, admire and be thankful to
You don't know what you should avoid, forbid and not do yourself or others
That is BAD
I think it is the first time I write such a post on the forums
Prince, you are so IMPORTANT!
Be proud!
How the fuck can you interpret somebody teachings, and give others your interpretation of it, that is what is insulting. Especially when you claim things to be said that are not.
You are maybe a step further, then you should be compassionate for others
I didnt interpreted your last post as being full of that
It was maybe full of this (did I misordered my letters?)

Take care

PS: I know Darrel doesn't need me to be equilibrated and be defended, but I'm sure you do

 

Darrel wrote, "Sure you do. I've also come to realize, you can't stand it not having the 'last word'."

Well I would hate disappoint ya mister fundie. Here's my attempt at the last word.



“All Religions are One

 

isn't this connected to meagain's thread about foucalt's pendulum in that truth is subjective and so ganjaprince's cosmic joke is funny only within ganjaprince's cosmos?

 

You ever mix chocolate ice cream with sauerkraut?

 

German chocolate ice cream

 

Now, I'm laughing ... Not at gp's cosmic joke, but that I too had that very thought today while feeding the dogs ...

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First of all ganjaprince doesn't even exist, the seperate self is a myth, a dream character, nothing but an illussion. So how can an illussion own the cosmic joke...

 

First, the conceit 'I Am' is constructed and becomes established.

Then follows the distortion of the processes of thought, view and experience, in such a way that the subconscious self-deceptions:
'I am this ...' and 'I am that',
'I am equal to ...',
'I am better than ...'
'I am inferior to ...'
are assumed and gradually and habitually reinforced ...

Lastly, are all phenomena, which are empty of self, perceived to be apparently 'self and mine', which enables possessiveness, defensiveness, aversion, and thus manifold enmity, taking up weapons, violence and pain... This sad phenomena is designated 'Ownership' ... Yet all die from here utterly naked and empty-handed, only followed by the delayed effects of their 'Egoistic' or! 'Altruistic' intentions and actions ...

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Sakka - the king of the 33 divinities - once
spoke these verses to the Blessed Buddha:

Having slain what, does one sleep in peace ?
Having slain what, does one never sorrow?
What is the one thing 0ohh Gotama
Whose killing you approve ?

The Blessed One:
Having slain Anger, one sleeps in calm ease;
Having slain Anger, one does not sorrow
The killing of Anger, 0ohh Vasava
With its poisoned root and honeyed tip:
This is the killing, the Noble Ones approve.
For having slain that, one does not grieve.

Sakka continued:
I am not one easily upset in mind.
Nor easily agitated by Anger's whirl.
I never become angry for long
Nor does Anger hang on in me.
When angry, I do not despise.
Nor do I praise own qualities.
I keep myself well controlled.
Protecting my own future good.

Therefore: Bring Anger under control;
Do not let your friendships decay.
Do not blame one who is blameless;
Do not speak splitting speech.
Like the roaring mountain avalanche
Their own Anger crushes evil people.

Do not let Anger overpower you;
Do not become angry with the angry.
Noble Ones always remain harmless.
Like a devastating mountain avalanche
Their own Hate crushes bad people.

The Grouped sayings of the Buddha. Samyutta Nikaya I 237-40

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All the egoism is born right when assuming impersonal and transient phenomena, such as body, feeling, perception, mental construction, and consciousness to be 'I-Me-Mine, thereby conceiving the idea: 'I am'!

At once hereafter one falls desperately in love with this hypothetical ego, exalts and gratifies and even worships it, as the dearest possession of all !!! Pride is born right here.

By comparing this non-existent entity: 'My Personal Identity' with external equally conceived perceptions, one erroneously concludes: 'I Am! Better than ...'... Arrogance is born there!

Or one concludes equally erroneously: 'I Am! Worse than or Equal to ...' When there is pride, there is bound to be wounded pride! Because of that I-construing, ego-love and self-overestimation, one cannot respect what should be respected. Feeling threatened by any realistic evaluation of this adored 'ego', all potential 'critics' or 'competitors' are violently repressed ... By clinging to this cherished idea of 'Myself', harming, hate, ill-will, and violence thereby come into being.

Even wars are initiated by immature and infantile imagination of 'Own Greatness' or 'National Lead'! Thus more than fatal is verily this cramped conceit that 'I Am this and that'! Serene joy is however connected with open, free and detached impersonality. If there is no 'I', no 'Me', what then to be proud of, and violently defend ?



As the blessed Buddha said:

• Blissful is the overcoming of all sense-desire.
• Blissful is dwelling in complete harmlessness.
• Blissful is solitude for one content & learned.
• But best is the bliss of uprooting the conceit 'I am'!
  
  Udana – Inspiration: II – 1

​

Frequent reflection on the impermanent and transient flux of all internal and external phenomena, leads towards this counter-intuitive yet crucial comprehension of the fact of 'No-Self'... Quite Freeing that indeed is...

Sabbe Dhamma Anatta ...

All States are Selfless !!!

​

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Hahahah ... Kharakov, that was a good analogy.

GanjaPrince:

Then why do you not speak in the third person, like Occam does?

(And whatever happened to old Occam anyway?)

 

"All these notions of no-self and self and Buddha nature are
concepts only and empty in themselves without any meaning
whatsoever other than what we give it. In order to communicate,
words have to be used to indicate the experience of Reality.
What ever term one uses to describe THAT, It Is What It is. Call
it God, God Consciousness, or the Self, or the non-self or
Shunya or Buddha Nature, The Mother, The Great Way, etc" - Somebody


As I said before as you merge into the one conciousness as I call it, you enter into an experience, that is

in·ef·fa·ble
adj.

1. Incapable of being expressed; indescribable or unutterable. See Synonyms at unspeakable.

mys·ti·cal
adj.

1. Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.
2. Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God: a mystical religion.

This experience is common in all religious experience, and advanced beings in realizing this unspeakable thing, that is unable to put in words... they divised brilliant maps... maps that lead nowhere

Stop fighting over whose map is better and go nowhere... And I should take my own advice!


A buddhist map works for you really cool

A yogic map works for another person, cool


I like to read all different kinds of maps and learn from them all, cool

What are we really arguing about?

I see the same
From the tao te ching..
"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly free of desire
One observes its wonders
Constantly filled with desire
One observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders"


Thus unity of religions, unity of traditions, putting together the pieces of the puzzle and finding commonalities, makes total sense.



Now this is a book I never read and have no idea about what it is about or anything, but isn't that the coolest cover you ever seen... WOW

"All we are saying is give peace a chance" - John Lennon
Huston Smith writes in the Introduction to Schuon's book, " the
defect in other versions of this [esoteric/exoteric] distinction is that they claim unity in religions too soon, at levels where, being exoteric, true Unity does not pertain and can be posited only on pain of Procrusteanism or vapidity. " Once we identify any particular thought system, no matter how comprehensive, as the truth, then we have excluded other thought systems and denied the Truth its unity and its infinite possibilities for expression. The unity of Truth must therefore be a Transcendent Unity. " The fact that it is transcendent, " Smith writes, " means that it can be univocally described by none. " Thus, while there is one and only one Truth, there are many expressions of it.

Go to the root, find the center, see all the expressions of it... I call it the one conciosuness, perhaps you can call it nirvana, but nirvana can be found in the teachings of Christ and the teachings of the Sufis...



and see how it call comes together and makes sense.

 

Well GanjaPrince sometimes does talk like that... It is a useful method for not idenitfying with he who suffers. Although you can't do that these days, except on forums and by yourself and whatever...

But i think it would be an awesome world if everybody talked in third person

Occam must have found better things to do