homosexuality

Christianity is about love and acceptance (like Christ had shown). We have no right to judge anyone, homosexuals included....only God can judge.

 

Not to mention that Christmas time has nothing to do with jesus and everything to do with "pagan" celebrations for the winter solstice.

 

acctually Christmas time does have lots to do with Christ...

its just that the mainstream media tok it upon themselves to water it down and shit like that...seriously, when i have kids, im considering not teaching them about Santa, really? whats the point?

 

Gay sex

If you object to men having sex with each other because of the Old Testament then you must never sit on a public chair, in case a woman on her period ever sat on it. And lots of other crazy rules which are illogical, irrelevant, and impossible to follow.

Fortunately for Christians, Christ told us that the rules in the Old Testament no longer applied to us, so there's nothing wrong with men having sex with each other.

It's hard for straight people to understand this, since we are instinctively repulsed by men having sex with each other (since it's detremental to procreation). But there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and anyone who thinks there is is just being silly.

The proof

To prove it, consider this: does anyone care about lesbians? No. They are not seen as sinful. Why? Because straight people are not instinctively repulsed by women having sex with each other. This is because women having sex with each other is not detremental to procreation. A woman can only conceive every year or so, so no one cares who she sleeps with in the mean time. But a man's seed is precious since he can conceive every time he has sex. The fact that no one considers lesbian activity sinfun proves that these values are based purely on evolutionary instinct, not on God's will.

Homosexuality

FACT
God designed all species. He made all men and male animals.

FACT
A significant proportion of all male species are gay.

THEREFORE
God makes gays.

CONCLUSION
Being gay is not an imperfection.

 

Your lack of understanding of OT Law is dizzying (pun intended). To sum it up, there are Moral, Cultural, and Ceremonial Laws in the OT. Moral laws are universal. Cultural Laws were for the Hebrew culture but have a decidedly universal prinicple behind them. Ceremonial Laws were fulfilled by Christ and are now extraneous. Contextually, the OT laws regarding homosexuality were buried smack in the middle of moral (absolute) laws regarding sexuality (including incest and beastiality).

Aside from the fact that it was condemned in the New Testament as well, are you sure that you want to go down that path? What about murder, rape, incest, bestiality, larceny, idolatry, etc. Prohibitions against some of the most heinous acts are in the OT. Are you going to say that these laws no longer apply to us?

Apparently God thinks there is something wrong with it.

What nonsense! I certainly see it as sinful. The vehemence of my reaction (i.e. the extent to which it repulses me) does little to deter my acknowledgement of its sinful status. Your assertions are unfounded and can certainly be discredited. There are many people who think that lesbianism is sick and disgusting.

FACT
God designed all species. He made all men and male animals.

FACT
A significant proportion of all male species take their mates by a significant show of or actual force.

THEREFORE
God makes men rapists.

CONCLUSION
Being a rapist is not an imperfection.

Your logic is severly flawed. Furthermore:

Is there a species where a population of males (or females) is *exclusively* homosexual? No crossing over. They may or may not be monogomous, but they must never (or extremely rarely during early development; definitely not after full maturity) mate with a member of the opposite sex.

If you lean on the animal kingdom in support of behaviors like homosexuality, does that mean that other behaviors which are present in the animal kingdom should be supported as well? Rape, incest, cannibalism, infanticide, selfishness, poligamy, theft, infant abandonment, and more happen in the animal kingdom on a daily basis. Not only that, each one of those occurs in much greater frequency than homosexuality. Are you prepared to support these behaviors to as great or greater extent than you are to support homosexuality?

 

Do you actually think that the laws of the OT are what's keeping people from legalizing murder, rape, etc...? That finially settling into the mindset that homosexuality is ok and not wrong will lead to us thinking violence against our fellow human beings is okay?

The OT wasn't the first time laws against murder and such came about.

 

Could be that I haven't read the OT carefully enough (it's pretty long), but I haven't really seen anything against homosexuality there. In this day and age, Judaism, the religion that is based completly on the OT, accepts homosexuals while Christianity, in most forms, does not. How can this be?

 

No, I don't think that at all. However, saying that we can ignore them because we are no longer bound by ANY OT law is insufficient (an untrue). I was trying to point out the logical absurdity of using the idea that we are not under the law as a means to disregard it.

I cannot say what settling into the mindset that homosexuality is okay would mean for society. However, I do know that the posistion is decidedly counter to what is recorded in Scripture.

It's in Leviticus 18. Here is the whole passage (one of them). The specific text is bold:

[size=+1]Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy. If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads. If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you. If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible. If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people. Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible. If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless. If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless. Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out.

It is also later in Leviticus as well.

[/size] 18:22-4 Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
[size=+1]
It is also important to remember that Jews of the time never are recorded as having interpreted it in any other way than homosexuality (see Philo and Josephus for more details).

Please keep in mind that Christians love homosexuals, but we recognize that homosexual behavior is sinful. Very much the "love the sinner, hate the sin" distinction.
[/size]

 

Hm, I see the point. Couldn't find the first passage that you cited, but the second one is definatly there and is pretty clear. However, despite what is said in the OT, the modern conservative Jewish view of homosexuality is as follows:

"[...] It sees homosexuality as the non-fulfillment of one mitzvah - but there are 612 other mitzvot that are open to be fulfilled. As such, one should not treat homosexual Jews any different than one would treat a Jew who is not fully observant in any other way, such as one who drives on Shabbat to places other than a synagogoue, or one who does not keep kosher, etc."

Also note that in reform Judaism, homosexuality is not considered to be a sin at all.

 

Amberfilter:

This quote was written in response to your statement "Stop trying to infect innocent minds with the idea that unprotected gay sex is any more dangerous than unprotected hetero-sex."

Take what you want from it. Either you infer something from the statistics or you don't.

Arrogance will get you very far, it certainly makes you look intelligent.

I see nothing wrong with people dying from disease that God inflicts upon them. Who knows, maybe I will get killed as well. I never made the claim that gay sex was bad, however, it is pretty hilarious (all sex is pretty funny if you think about it).

Umm, why do you care what a bigot says? Do what you think is right. Eventually you will learn whether or not you have judged correctly.

I like bars. What do you have against bars?

Great, so my chances of finding a coupla bisexual girls will go down. Sounds like a great plan to me. I say, keep the hornballs (at least the hot ones) in the bars so I can pick them up.

Whatever.

 

If you really loved homos you would turn the other cheek, if you catch my drift.

God is the one who puts the desire for men in men, and the desire for women in women. God might be a little bit gay, so your judgement could go against you. After all, God created women with the desire for men in them, so God knows what it is to desire a man (likewise the other way, God knows what it is to desire a women as well).

 

I care about what bigots say/believe because they seem to have a large influence on who runs this country that I reside in.

I would hardly call it arrogant to say that Dubbya followers are simple minded, it is as plain as day.

As far as your comments on bars and bi-sexual women, I think that speaks for itself regarding the "quality of mind" that you and your fellow bigots come from... why bother using your brain (if you have one even) to figure out what is moral when your pastor can deliver morals to you in a nice convenient TV dinner fashion.

 

They do? Hmm.

I'll let your statement speak for itself.

I love hot chicks, drugs, God, cigarettes, booze, loud music, and witty conversation (in no particular order). Must be something wrong with me if I readily admit what I love and am willing to joke about it. You know what I'd do if I had a million bucks? 2 chicks at once. Normally a guy like me has no chance at hookin' up with 2 girls at once, but you know, if I had a million dollars, I bet I could find some girls who would...

Thanks. I don't like being under pressure.

I don't think there are many people who agree with my morality. Than again, people might be more intelligent than I give them credit for.

 

i completely reject the concept that homosexuality is sinful. the way i figure it, if animals do it, it's natural. though it may have been misunderstood by the legalists of an ancient society working desperately to maintain their social structures within a community of people who had VERY DIFFERENT ideas on sexuality, i don't feel it's something that any loving heart can condemn. it causes no harm.

 

So, some OT laws don't apply to us, and some do because they're moral lwas. How do you know which ones are the moral laws?

Here are some Old Testament laws. Which of these should we follow?

1. Men must not sleep with female employees
2. Men must not cut their hair or their beards
3. Do not touch a woman who is menstruating, or even touch a chair she has sat on
4. Do not eat shrimp or pork
5. Do not wear cotton-polyester blends
6. Women must not wear a man's clothes
7. Do not sell your dog and give the money to the church
8. A bride must not lack proof of virginity
9. It is wrong to be a descendant of someone born out of wedlock
10. Do not get a tattoo
11. Do not sow different seeds in one field
12. Women must be quiet and submissive and cover their heads at all times
13. Slaves must obey their masters and never want for freedom

I don't see how any of these laws can be practical in modern society. Or is it only the one about men having sex with each other that matters?

Where? I've never read that anywhere in the NT!

Come on, you know all these things are prohibited in the NT. Jesus told us to obey the ten commandments. And there are always going to be things that weren't prohibited in The Bible that are obviously wrong. Like Internet fraud for example. The Bible is a guide and we can't say that anything is acceptable as long as The Bible doesn't cover it.

But there's no logical reason for men sleeping with other men be be wrong. It doesn't hurt anyone or cheat anyone.

God told people not to eat pork, that doesn't mean he thinks eating pork is evil. You have to put this stuff into context.

Well it should. You're letting your animal instincts interfere with your sense of morality. Some things repulse us, like bacteria, or the thought of having sex with another man, or the thought of having sex with our mother. These instincts are there to help us to be healthy and to procreate, but that doesn't mean everything that repulses us is evil.

The thought of my parents kissing disgusts me, but my parents' love is not evil. I can't say that parents kissing is a sin just because it disgusts me!

There are many who see lesbianism as a sin, but on the whole it's men having sex that is seen as the worst thing, and that is because men having sex is the most detremental to procreation (ie people are going on instinct and not on logic).

Your rape analogy isn't valid. Rape is a personal choice. Homosexuality is not. God does not make rapists. He gave us free will. But our physical appearance, and our sexuality is not of choice. No one can help what they find attractive. Yes, whether they act on their attraction is a choice, but with regards to the issue of homosexuality, that is not a choice and you cannot choose what you find attractive. This is something God gives us.

Sorry, I don't get this.

Other animals are irrelevant. I only said "all species" because homosexuality is not unique to humans. All the bad things you mentioned above (rape, incest etc) are behaviours. People choose to do them. People can choose whether or not to have gay sex. A straight man can have gay sex. In fact, a straight man can have gay sex by accident if he sleeps with a transsexual!

Gay sex and homosexuality are two different issues, which is why I gave them headings on my last post.

When it comes to homosexuality, it's quite simple. I'll say it again: God makes people homosexual, so why would he deliberately make people "wrong"?

God makes people who go on to rape and murder, but these things are choices. You can't choose who you are, and gay people didn't choose to be gay. Gay people who become Christians don't "turn straight". They are still gay and there's nothing they can do about that. But why would they want to change when there is nothing wrong with being gay? I have never heard a good reason why being gay is morally "bad" or "wrong". People who think it is are arguing against logic.

 

Go chase a few lemmings then.

Love, Kharakov

 

The ones that you do.

How about "Don't feed cyanide to your children." I didn't see that in the Bible. Life itself is designed to teach you how to be good.

God does make rapists.

Even if they find the idea of rape attractive.

 

silly person. mass suicide of lemmings is a myth.

 

not if you chase them over a cliff.