Homosexuality/Christianity conflict (MERGED)

One of the other things that you must consider when reading the Bible is understanding what people's shortcomings were in their understanding. What the bible also tries to illustrate are these shortcomings in understanding. And while I'm at it, when studying scripture, we must also try to understand what the language meant at the time and the situation at hand and try not to draw conclusions so soon!

Had to get this in.

 

Most people base their disapproval of homosexuality alleging that the Bible &, therefore, God, states that homosexuality is an abominable sin prohibited by God under penalty of damnation.

The above allegation is a lie.

The Bible has been incorrectly translated and, consequentely, incorrectly interpreted.

The original Bible wasn’t written in English or any modern language. It was written in ancient Hebrew, a form of ancient Greek known as “koine” & some parts in Aramaic.

Many homophobes, including self-anointed fundamentalist preachers who got their title of “reverend” out of a box of Crackerjacks & who don’t know how to speak, write or read any of the original languages of the Bible, quote passages from the Bible containing the English words “homosexual” or “sodomite.”

However, according to http://www.humanbeing.demon.nl/humanbeingsweb/Library/randall.htm:

“...The term homosexual was introduced in 1869 by a Hungarian physician called Karoly Maria Benkert, who wrote under the pseudonym of K. M. Kertbeny...”

Homophobes like to squawk repetively like autistic parrots the following passage as proof of Bilbical condemnation of homosexuality:

“...I Corinthians 6:9: The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the realm of God."

Author's Note: The Greek words translated "effeminate" and "homosexual" do not mean effeminate or homosexual!

...The English word "homosexual" is a composite word made from a Greek term (homo, "the same") and a Latin term (sexualis , "sex"). The term "homosexual" is of modern origin and was not used until about 100 years ago. There is no word in biblical Greek or Hebrew that is parallel to the word "homosexual." No Bible before the Revised Standard Version in 1946 used "homosexual" in any Bible translation.

The word translated as "homosexual" or "sexual pervert" or some other similar term is Greek arsenokoites, which was formed from two words meaning "male" and "bed". This word is not found anywhere else in the Bible and has not been found anywhere in the contemporary Greek of Paul's time. We do not know what it means. The word is obscure and uncertain. It probably refers to male prostitutes with female customers, which was a common practice in the Roman world, as revealed in the excavations at Pompeii and other sites...

The complete version of the above quotes are available at
http://truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html.


The King James Version of Deuteronomy 23:17-18 reads:

“...There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel...”

HOWEVER, the original Hebrew reads:

“...i, lo'-thihyeh qedhêshâh mibbenoth yisrâ'êl velo'-yihyeh qâdhêshm ibbenêy yisrâ'êl...”

Take notice of the words “qedhêshâh” & “qâdhêshm” in the above Hebrew passage. “Qedhêshâh” is the femenine noun in Hebrew for temple prostitute & “qâdhêshm” is the masculine noun in Hebrew for temple prostitute.

Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary (http://www.jcsm.org/StudyCenter/kjvstrongs/STRHEB69.htm)
defines “qadesh” as “...qadesh kaw-dashe' - from 'qadash' (6942); a (quasi) sacred person, i.e. (technically) a (male) devotee (by prostitution) to licentious idolatry:-- sodomite, unclean...

Therefore, why did the translators of the original Hebrew mistranslate the male noun “qâdhêshm” as Sodomite instead of male whore when they translated the female noun “qedhêshâh” as whore?

Homophobic discrimination is the answer.

Take note that the Hebrew word for Sodom is S’dom according to
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2004-February/017145.html: “...Sodom (Hebrew: > S'dom)...”

There are no combinations of letters spelling S’dom or variaition thereof such as Sodomite in the original Hebrew version of Deuteronomy 23: 17-18, therefore, Sodomite is a purposeful mistranslation. Got it? Get it.

Therefore, the correct translation should read:

“There shall be no female temple prostitute of the daughters of Israel nor a male temple prostitute of the sons of Israel...”

The Bible did not fall out of heaven written in English or in any other modern language but, rather, in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The Latin version of the Bible was used several hundred years ago to translate the original Hebrew version of the Bible into English, Spanish, French, German, Italian, etc., and many present day experts in ancient languages do not agree with the translations of past translators.


Mistranslations spawn misinterpretations.


The point of all this being, as one who all his life has been speaking, reading & writing in ancient Hebrew, original language of the Bible, 2 Samuel 1: Rabbi Gershon Caudill states

http://hometown.aol.com/ecorebbe/myhomepage/rant.html :

“...Over the past decade, I have been involved in a study of the so-called anti-homosexual texts of Leviticus in the original Hebrew versions extant, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and with the help of a Catholic Priest and a Protestant Biblical Languages student at Emory University, I have studied translations of the Greek and Latin texts.

This study has involved reviewing Talmudic texts and other materials of a collateral nature to the subject matter being studied; history, anthropology, archaeology, philology, and etymology, to name but a few.

As a result of my research, I am convinced of two things.

1. THE ORIGINAL HEBREW TEXTS HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY!"


Furthermore, in king David, in his own words recorded for eternity in the inerrant Bible, publicly confesses his homosexual relationship with Jonathan by stating that his love for Jonathan surpassed the love of women.

(1) 1 Samual, Chapter 17,(love at first sight), “1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

(2) 1 Samuel 20: 30, (father calls son faggot & blames the mother) “...Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?’

(3) 2 Samuel 1: 26 "...I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

I repeat, “PASSING the love of WOMEN.”

In any case, considering David's murder of Bathsheba's husband so he could have her as another wife in his harem, it's safe to say David was a bisexual like many kings in ancient history, although, the Bible doesn't state he created a public spectacle for the death of any of his wives and concubines like he did for the death of his homosexual lover, Jonathan.

Although, there is NOT YET conclusive evidence, there are indications from scientific investigations that homosexuality is genetic, therefore, as what regards natural vs unnatural, freewill & alleged “chosen” lifestyles, when the “gay gene” is, at last, identified, the Church will have a lot to answer for all the physical pain through torture, incarceration & execution of members of the gay community throughout the centuries as well as the spiritual terrorism it has inflicted on the homosexual community by preaching hell fire & eternal damnation for those who have been biologically programmed to a homosexual orientation.

The Last Judgement will, indeed, be quite a surprise for many a modern Bible thumping homophobic Pharisee.

 

lol - someone's about to be banned.

 

lol, this is great... keep it coming, the more abuse you give, the quicker you get banned...

 

Well, lookie, over yonder, Clem, looks like some Baaaaaaahble thumping homophobe just had a Tourette's Syndrom attack. I just love it when that happens. Makes me feel like taking a crowbar over to their cage & just run back & forth banging it across the bars. Oh, cackle.


Now proceeding to the topic of homosexuality in nature or as religious homophobes like to repeat like budhist parrots reciting their mantras that homosexuality is "contra natura" or against nature, let me point out the followng.

This homophobe pet phrase, "contra natura" translates "against nature" as if homosexuality is against the laws of nature. Abundant empirical evidence betrays this premise that homosexuality is "contra natura" as being FALSE.

In Bruce Bagemihl’s 572-page book, "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality & Natural Diversity," nominated in 1999 for a Pulitzer Prize, contains 200 years of scientific observations of animal behavior in hundreds of species both in the wild & in captivity of homosexuality in animals from insects to reptiles, to birds to mammals, including the most intelligent species such as primates & dolphins.

There are many documented scientific observations in Bagemihl's book of animals engaging in homosexual acts in the wild even in the presence of abundant sexual partners of the opposite sex, therefore, homosexuality is a natural sexual orientation in the animal kingdom which is not the result of cultural conditions such as sexual identification due to parental role models or lack thereof.

The Bighorn Sheep in the U.S. live in sexually segregated herds for all of the year except for the rutting season when males seek the females. However, the rest of the year, male-to-male sexual copulation is the norm among male Bighorn Sheep. Not always is a dominant or older male the mounter but will allow themselves to be mounted by younger males.

From the online magazine, Science Daily, Date: 2004-03-09 at
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040309073256.htm

"...Biology Behind Homosexuality In Sheep, Study Confirms...

...A study published in the February issue of the journal Endocrinology demonstrates that not only are certain groups of cells different between genders in a part of the sheep brain controlling sexual behavior, but brain anatomy and hormone production may determine whether adult rams
prefer other rams over ewes...

"Same-sex attraction is widespread across many different species." said Roselli, whose laboratory collaborated with the Department of Animal Sciences at Oregon State University and the USDA Agricultural Research Service's U.S. Sheep Experiment Station in Dubois, Idaho.

Kay Larkin, Ph.D., an OHSU electron microscopist who performed laboratory analysis for the study, said scientists now have a marker that points to whether a ram may prefer other rams over ewes.

"There's a difference in the brain that is correlated with partner preference rather than gender of the animal you're looking at," she said. About 8 percent of domestic rams display preferences for other males as sexual partners.

Scientists don't believe it's related to dominance or flock hierarchy; rather, their typical motor pattern for intercourse is merely directed at rams instead of ewes..."

Furthermore, God in his infinite wisdom also created + ta - da! + lesbian lizards.

See http://www.nerve.com/Regulars/ScienceOfSex/09-19-00/09-19-00.asp

"...On a parched, wind-swept lakebed in southeastern Arizona, within earshot of the trucks hurtling by on Interstate 10, a strange experiment of nature is playing itself out ———— an experiment that might shock moral conservatives but should delight lesbian separatists everywhere. Two species of whiptail lizards have interbred, producing a new, all-female species. These animals have sex with each other and produce baby lizards without any help from males. And the babies grow up to be lesbian too.

Zoologist David Crews of the University of Texas at Austin discovered the
unusual sexual behavior of Cnemidophorus uniparens, as the all-female species is called, in the late 1970s, and has been working on them ever since. Crews doesn't use the word "lesbian" ———— he prefers the neutrality of scientific jargon like "parthenogenetic unisexual pseudocopulators" ———— but it's hard to ignore the parallels..."

Well, Crews may not use the word "lesbian" but I betcha plenty of homophobes would call these natural creatures of God sodomites.

 

Greetings Everyone.

I'm considering bringing in some new gay Christians to populate this thread. They are, as I am, presently members of a gay Christian online web site which is a bit conservative and tends to have too much moderator input censoring the free flow of opinion and individual and original writing styles.

Are there any regular gay Christians members of this thread still around?

There seems to not have been much conversation in this Christian Gays thread in quite a while.

Anyway, these Hip Forums have a great format with so many extra goodies in the way of choices of font, size, colors, smilies, etc.

I hope we can revive this thread with new gay Christian members.

See ya soon!

 

I think my faith rejoices anyone sex.

 

I'm still around. Though I am not an active poster anymore. I've been going through an anti-message board phase for a while. Probably from too much stress at home.

It's a shame though. I'm not as active on the Gay Christian site I am a member of as I would like to be.

www.gaychristian.net

 

I believe that god also accepts you for who you are. But so many religous leaders say that we go to hell bc guys likes guys and girls like girls? thats bullshit. But anyway do i think that ill go to hell bc i like guys? no i dont at all.

 

remember, the bible wasnt written by God, it was written by men. excluding a few books in the bible (the Gospels, Acts, Judges-2 Kings) all of this is a single mans opinion or what he wants every1 to do. A ton of the bible was changed when Rome made it their offical religon.

 

Cant wait to go to hell since all my friends are there .

 

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Hi Sherlock!

Has your stress at home situation kept you away from the gay network you linked in your message above, as well?

With what other online gay Christian forums/websites are you familiar and which one would you recommend?

I've been checking out gay Christian websites in Europe but haven't joined any to date.

I really like the extra features these Hip Forums offer with regards to choice of fonts, colors, smilies, etc.

That wacky 700 Club televangelist, Pat Robertson, has forgotten the commandment that says, "Thou shalt not kill."

American Christian ayatollah, Pat Robertston, has issued a fatwa (religious order of
execution) against legally elected president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez.

From
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10 :

"...We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come to exercise that ability,' Robertson said yesterday on the program, an audiotape of which was posted on the Web site of the Christian Broadcasting Network, founded by the cleric and based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. "This is a dangerous enemy to our south controlling a huge pool of oil.''

Robertson said that Chavez is going to make Venezuela a "launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent.'' Killing Chavez, who is currently visiting Cuba, would be cheaper than starting a war, he said...”

During a past hurricane threat to Florida, Ayatollah Pat Robertson prayed along with many of his extreme fundamentalist sect that the hurricane hit Orlando, Florida, because of acceptance of the gay tourist $$$market$$$. Instead, the hurricane hit the area of Florida in which was located one of Ayatollah Pat Robertson's regional offices.

Pity, Ayatollah Pat Robertson's spin on that wasn't made public in a press release.

Such madness.

 

There is no hell.

 

im pretty sure that anyone who doesnt act like they've got a stick in their ass is goin to hell according the the big christ lovers society or soething like that.....oh wait this is the gay forum.....well i didnt mean any offence about the stick thing, but you know what i mean right?

 

There is no hell and no paradise .

 

Pagans--as a pretty good general rule--don't believe in hell.



Hell is a Christian construct.



There is a great deal of disagreement among Christians and among Pagans on these issues.

I would imagine that most Christians would agree that there are plenty of heterosexuals in hell as well as homosexuals.

 

*belch*

Jesus sucks. I've even heard he must've been quite good in his day.

Anyway, you won't go to hell even if you'd put all straight people in camps and gass them.

 

Well, the situation at home certainly isn't helping me want to go to the site more often.

I'm afraid that www.gaychristian.net is the only gay Christian site that I ever visit.