Holocaust Revisionism

I have to make clear right now that I am not out to minimize or negate the experience of the jewish people and others who were in concentration camps during the war. It is torture to be taken from your home; it is torture to be mistreated; it is torture to be made sick; it is torture to be separated from your loved ones; it is torture to not know the fate of your loved ones; it is torture to be starved; it is torture to be driven to suicide; and it is torture to be tortured. I understand that these things happened. It was an event of great sorrow, beyond sorrow, and beyond words.

I'm not a revisionist. I just looked into it and have decided that some of it couldn't have happened like we've been schooled to believe. But that's just my opinion, based on information such as I have just shared. And there's more, but I don't care think about it anymore, as no one is responding with anything but opinion based on . . . their opinion. That's not honest.

It's not easy living in this world of psychopathic rule? There is very, very little of it that I find pleasing. One doesn't have to look too far or too deep before dropping to their knees in defeat against the onslaught of images that paint a clear picture of indecency streaming down from above, and the blissfully blind patrons who wave banners celebrating the exit of one perveyor of indecency and the entrance of another perveyor and upholder of indecency, an enemy that remains unseen and unknown though it hides right in plain sight every four years. How long can this go on? Concerning the holocaust, the sad truth is that "never again" has turned into "never agian . . . until next time." And there's nothing that anyone of us can do about that or the cage that's been constructed around us. The cage is made up of agreed upon imaginary bars.

Perhaps a beginning would be to stop allowing our pain and horrible memories to define us to the extent that these images become hopelessly embedded into what we call our identity. The purpose of a thorn is to teach us how to remove it. But the world and life is what it is. I don't know what to do about it except to allow the process, and to maybe try to help us do something about the problem of wearing out the knees of our jeans faster than the soles of our shoes.

It's been . . . good . . .

 

I agree entirely. Thanks for posting. I didn't want to bring up yet another issue in the thread. They already can't handle the one they have..
It's just such a horrific event, no matter what the real number and/or method. The mass graves prove that. So the little details stop mattering to me. It's one thing to make sure every one knows what the first thanksgiving was like, it's another to keep arguing over how six million (or not six million) were murdered (and died of natural and/or war-related causes).

 

LOL....dude, just gotta say...gonna get right back to work of reading this very entertaining thread... was gonna continue reading and not post til I read it all but...wow, man...this post just takes the cake. Takes the cake of having a God...or should I say, a Kanye complex. And I do believe in some conspiracies. I tend to not agree with modern day Zionism for SURE and see that as a HUGE prob in today's world BUT I do not deny the holocaust. It is absolutely fine for people to discuss the holocaust and what did or didn't happen in the concentration camps...but geez man... to act like this.. you don't agree w me... well, then. you have no interest in the topic and i'm just gonna invite the 2 people on hipforums who DO agree with me and we'll take our ball to our own invite only court. LMFAO! The definition of arrogance. Good job! (now back to my before bed reading...thanks...)

 

This pretty much proves something. You don't neccasarily believe the conspiracies you post about... you hear about something, get an idea, want to question something and then.. your mistake is.. instead of doing enough research and THEN posting once you actually know details, you take a stance on believing each branch of any conspiracy that sounds the same on a public forum and invite people to prove you wrong. It's quite clear you've done little to no research and are only in it for the controversy and because it seems entertaining to you..

LOL....yea, really...

Again, yes, really. Glad someone spoke up.

 

Hm, that's interesting. Do you think that's at least a possible explanation for why the cyanide residues in the walls are so low?

It seems like a bit of a cop-out, to me, but it could be true. I mean hey it FITS at least as a way of making the story believable in the light of evidence that significantly questions it.

What do you make of it? You share it as if it's a revisionist post but... isn't that an exterminist argument?

Cheers again dude


-- Also, sorry if you're tiring of this thread and sorry if I haven't posted much (substance) either, I've just had a lot on my plate recently. I care about these issues deeply, but of course it's hard to always find time to really get stuck in, as it's such a deep and complex issue that requires a lot of time to get anywhere meaningful in.

That's not what I said though, is it?

So it's wrong to want to discuss something openly? But only when it applies to the Holocaust? Is that pretty much it?

 

Maybe because people on here are not your dogs. You can not keep COMMANDING people to describe gassing chambers. In detail. NOW! Then sit... roll over. Good dog! Oh...wait ... I mean, bad dog! You were ASKED to sit. Didn't I tell you you had to do what I told you to do?

Seriously? That is not how you debate with people. Nobody here disagreeing started this thread... people just said they believe jewish people WERE exterminated in concentration camps by Nazis. They don't have to be experts to know that and any specifics are available for your own research. Just a hint... nudge, nudge. Typically if you are trying to refute something, it is in the responsibility to the REFUTER to find the facts and data and present them.... do you even understand that? Okay. I'm gonna prove the sky is really green. So, okay....you dogs need to roll over NOW and then prove to me how you could dare say it is blue..

 

I didn't accept your research assignment.

To me, this is primarily a political story, a war story, and an ethnic hatred story. All the structures of civilization failed these people in a catastrophic way.

I have no interest in the details of gas chamber design and operation. German officers were given orders to exterminate Jews as quickly and efficiently as they could, and they followed those orders within the limitations of whatever materials and methods they had available to them, at a number of sites in multiple countries. They found ways to get it done.

Saying that you can't understand what went on in the Holocaust without knowing the details of how their gas chambers worked is a lot like saying you can't know what time it is unless you know how to design and build a clock.

Because some of us are strongly opposed to what you're trying to do. Is that not obvious to you?

If you are successful at convincing a significant number of people that Nazi fascism did not result in terrible things, then it might be considered again at some point as a viable political option. People like me need to fight that as hard as possible.

 

Okay, finally finished the thread and just wanna say that my last comment (thus far), is that this is a good way to sum up the way I feel about it. Yes, there probably were things documented wrong for... various reasons.. I mean, really, who knows? But there is enough proof that a bad enough thing happened, even if it was exaggerated that I do not see the point in really spending my time (or why anyone else would want to) trying to figure this out. Like what you said..what is the point? What would it accomplish? If someone wants to rally against Zionism or the mistreatment of the Palestineans....that's all good and fine but you can do that separately. I just do not see the point in this really. If you did prove something...what would you do with it? Wouldn't you be better often focusing on a more modern issue- an issue going on now? In all historical events I bet there are mistruths and some of it sometimes has to do with very powerful people purposely distorting things...but I just do not see the point in trying to debunk the holocaust.

 

I think one of the problems here is that people take discussions like this too seriously, to the point that it actually hinders constructive conversation and/or debate.

I'm not saying concentration camps or extermination camps are not a big deal.

What I'm saying is that there's no point in now, almost 70 years later, getting all distressed at the mere mention of discussing the details and objectively analyzing the facts.

Why is this such a threat?

I have nothing against people who do think the gas chambers existed and nothing against people who don't, but why be so judgmental and knee-jerk about it? Why not just let the facts present themselves and let the truth come out? Is that really so difficult?

Just caaaaallllm down! Getting all annoyed at a couple of people fact-checking 70 years after it all happened is not going to reverse whatever did happen, as much as perhaps you may wish it would. Hell, I wish it would too

You're the ones saying it happened though not us lol

(although as I say I'm open-minded to either side)

 

It's not so much that it has to do with the holocaust..
it's more that you seem to have came into it trying to debunk it right off the bat without coming into questioning it with neutral eyes. AND... on top of that you wanted people who believe it happened, more or less as we've been taught, to explain to you exactly how things work...that's just not how it works.. if you want to disprove something it is your responsibility to provide the proof, not the other way around.

May I ask you in all seriousness and with respect what made you interested in this particular topic and what exactly led you to believe things reported on the holocaust were severely distorted??

 

Okay, well, not how I see it but...laptop gonna die and it's way past my bedtime so I'll check this tomorrow.

 

ok man, tc dude and night

And honestly, don't worry I'm not trying to do anything bad I'm just doing what I do with anything political and important - analyzing it from all angles and digging deep into it. It just so happens this is a sensitive one, that's all.

Thing is about conspiracy theorizing, sometimes you have to get really far in before you can start feeling where you are and whether it makes sense. I have looked into reptiles, "ancient aliens" (Anunnaki), the Illuminati, Satanists, a million wacky things. Did I agree with everything I was reading? No. Was I open-minded? Yes.

I find I get a lot further with an open-mind and no knee-jerk reactions. I just LISTEN to people. And I love listening, and hearing all the opinions that the world has to offer.

I have learned that knee-jerking gets me nowhere. It just leaves me with LESS potential knowledge and awareness, not more.

Ultimately, if an opinion holds no water, then it will be shown as such. Facts (along with the necessary research and citations to declare them as such) are the best weapon, on either side of any debate

 

Pssst. I'm a female.
And btw, just because I'm against automatically believing ALL conspiracies doesn't mean I don't believe some of them. I'm not gonna derail this thread by saying what I do believe in other then it isn't reptiles at all.. but I do believe powerful people do control puppet governments for their own agendas. The bottom line is though... in the conspiracy community there are so many different roads, lanes and avenues to go down ... some merge together- some split apart. Some are just too wacky to fathom and some have validity, but I try to start at having on opinion or even trying not to believe any particular point (for ex-look up, if you haven't already, how the u.s. is considered a corporation via a clause in the constitution...)... don't have any more time to type now but then think about how owns the "corporation" and then you kinda know where I stand in the conspiracy community. I also, though, do not waste my time researching these things too much further... they are nice to talk about now and then online because they are interesting BUT.. it can be damn depressing and there is so much disinformation. I like to focus on the here and now and my kid and spreading positivity in the world and I believe that any of the negative conspiracies that may be true can be beaten by people staying strong, positive and together. So, I don't spend a lot of time on conspiracies... But even when I did... I didn't believe every little thing I heard..


Good night for real!

 

well, amen to that!

And sorry about getting your gender wrong, lol

Can't always tell online! I thought r0llinstoned was a girl... xD

 

Thank you for this post and I mean that with all sincerity. It has helped me to understand your point of view.

When I made this post

It was not a trick question(s) instead it was to promote understanding of views and motivations. Without that understanding there is no middle ground.

I stated in another post that even if not one Jewish person was gassed ( I personally do not believe that to be so) it makes little difference as they were still chosen as prisoners based upon being Jewish or Polish or other groups. That is still a genocide. History is always being revised and with that comes the responsibility of not forgetting the larger picture and that is that people died not as random POW's but as selected POW"S. Dead is dead. Genocide.

You are correct that it still occurs and that is to all of our shame. That is the real lesson in it all is how do we stop it from being acceptable to do this to any group of people. The only way that I know of is that I lobby with human right groups and I lobby my government to use a collective voice to stop human right tragedies. While it is frustrating and heartbreaking at times it is one thing I can do.

Again, thank you for explaining your position and motivation. I can relate to those.

 

Not just a matter of 'again' or 1937
This is going on this week....but you'll be pressed to find anything about it in main stream media.

But hey, we're distracted with niggling over what happened 60 years ago.
Keep watching the birdie.

 

Please don't be so condescending. The Holocaust hasn't been chosen arbitrarily, surely you realise that?

Additionally... if you want to discuss other tragedies or genocides or whatever you wish to discuss you can just start a new thread.

 

I'm sorry, Karen, but before you can reject my research, you have to actually bring something to the table besides your opinion that would make a case against it. You forgot to do that. And your analogy of the clock is rather silly and counterproductive. When we reverse-engineer your clock, we find that it's missing some gears. Reverse-engineering something is how you come to learn the details. You simply got things backwards.

Also, by declaring that Hippipolla or myself are attempting to convince anyone that Nazi fascism didn't result in terrible things, you have shown yourself to be extremely successful at falling for your own propaganda, as we've said nothing of the sort. That you would say such a thing even after I made clear in my last post that I understand what kinds of tortures took place simply proves that you either have a very short memory or an agenda which causes you to view things in a selective manner.

You said, "I have no interest in the details of gas chamber design and operation." Might I suggest that that is the reason you know nothing about it, and have nothing to offer in response.

 

Well, AT, you seem to not understand that this is a debate forum. The subject is holocaust revisionism. The question I ask is: Does the gas chamber story holds up under scrutiny. I'm not forcing anyone to research anything. And I'm certainly not forcing anyone to be a good dog. If they don't want to discuss the details of something, they're free to not do that. But that begs the question of what they're doing in this thread in the first place.

You said: "Typically if you are trying to refute something, it is in the responsibility to the REFUTER to find the facts and data and present them." I did. If you have an answer to what I offered, then let's hear it. But don't pretend you didn't see what I posted.

 

Two points.

1) Genocide is not inevitable. If the United Nations hadn't been so weakened over the years by right-wingers, it would have the power and will to prevent it. President Clinton could have prevented much of the Ruanda genocide, but he didn't. I don't really know why. But the point is that later on, he admitted that this was his worst mistake. Now, I know that doesn't count for much, but it shows me that it could have gone the other way, perhaps if people like us had raised more of a protest. We should support reforming and strengthening the UN.

2) Just because conspiracy nuts like to pursue the "truth" their own way, giving weight to unreliable sources and speculating wildly, doesn't give them a pass on their responsibility to consider the consequences of their actions. There is no good reason why they can't pursue the truth the way a scholar would, by examining all the evidence and giving more weight to reliable sources. I think in most cases they don't because they don't have a good education. There are serious consequences to pushing wrong conspiracy theories.