Hitting the ceiling

Gold alone is not the answer. We have many more things with inherent value in the modern world.

 

I'd go so far as to say that the value behind the $, is the knowledge, freedom, and innovation of what the people can create here than they can't in most other countries.

It's not necessarily platinum/gold/silver, but it's the ideas that drive up the USA's economy, like the .com economic-boom did.

Problem is we aren't investing in math and science and we've taken a shit on education as a political policy, it's come full circle, and we can see that in the lack of economic understanding in people who are Tea Party Republicans in the house.

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Here's another question for everybody. Why do we assign value to precious metals like platinum/gold/silver? Is it because it's shiny and rare?

Surely I don't need a single bit of any of those if I have the knowledge of how to meet all my basic needs (food, shelter, water).

My point being from a philosophical point of view is that things we think have "inherent" value, really don't. It's just universally agreed upon that hey ___ looks cool, we want it, it's worthy of trade.

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Also when it comes to Keynesian economic spending plans, it has to be followed. You can't spend to get out of a recession/depression, and then when times are good resist not following the math behind how much taxes should be raised to undo what was spent as a economic-saving jolt to the economy.

When times are good who resists raising taxes which causes Keynesian economic plans to add to that current defecit which then becomes a part of the national debt? Ans: Conservatives

Then they have the gall to say Keynesian economic plans are moot.

 

Yes, I agree completely. Natural resources, production capacity and innovation are much more important than precious metals. But in the modern world, gold and especially silver have important uses and as such are precious in the literal sense of the word.

Really, all we need, and I know I'm dreaming here, is to unite as a species and focus on the bigger picture. The monetary system in its current form is incredibly destructive to our planet. We obviously need a functioning economy, but the system we've had for the past 1500 years has failed time and time again.

 

True, gold is a key component to many electronics nowadays.

One solution is to recycle old electronics though, and create and rely on non-disposable technologies. (Disposable electronics are perfect example of wasted molecules/labor/resources)

Grants and funding given to corporations by gov't need to change their focus into cyclical type of technologies that are less ridgid, probably aren't as profitable in terms of exploitability, but are reliable for the long term.

So I am hesitant to say we should pitch the financial system as a whole, but it certainly needs to be tweaked and reprioritized on what is important.

There also should be a gov't seizure on certain patents that hold technologies that could increase the general welfare of the nation/world, but aren't being implemented because the invention of such technologies would supplant the profitability of current technology and investments.

There needs to be a system where the Gov't forces the better technologies to arise in society, and in return protects private investments from taking too huge a loss on the investments on older technologies they haven't recouped the investment from.

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Also if science and math, is every able to figure out how to do recycling at the sub-atomic level, we'd make huge headway into the problem which drives politics and economics.

Scarcity of Resources.

 

The dollar is backed by oil. Oil can only be bought with dollars.

The root of the growth problem is this http://www.oil-price.net/. The IMF has said that for every $10 increase in oil price GDP growth decreases by .5%. With oil at $105 that's $80 more expensive than the average historical price of $25 which is equal to a 4% growth reduction.

 

Except China announced their decision to start trading oil in yuan last year.

 

True, with Russia. Libya, Iraq and Iran have wanted to switch too. It's interesting how we've made those countries our enemies.

 

Interesting , Mr. Monk inquires why we are so attracted to precious metals in one thread. In another he discusses scarcity of resources. Closely related topics. Janet Yellin will have great difficulty printing more gold.

 

Although to be fair, Iran and US relations have been tense decades before the Obama Administration.

It was during the Carter Administration that those foreign relations really fell apart. It's only now that we might have a glimmer of hope to begin diplomacy with them once again.

@RIPTIDE
*facepalm*

1. It's the same thread

2. You obviously missed the main point of the post since it was intended to be a thought provoking post, and a rhetorical post. You can obviously infer I understand the link between scarcity of resources and the value of a certain commodities, I have taken economics classes afterall.

 

Jimmy

I think a return to something like the ‘gold standard’ is unrealistic in the modern financial system and it would also be problematic in other ways.

And your examples are a bit spurious the ‘precious’ metal content of many countries coinage has fluctuated over time, going up and down (why was Henry VIII called ‘Old coppernose’?) and if I recall the period when the Roman coinage was most debased was some two hundred years before its collapsed in the West and in the east it carried on for another thousand years. There were many factors involved in the decline of the Roman Empire and I’m not sure that was the deciding factor and often debasement comes about as a result of other factors (Civil Wars, the paying off of enemies).

Roman or Tudor societies had little in the way of economic thinking often it was down to the whim of the ruler in charge at the time.

Anyway as I’ve said if world leadership was sane it would be start thinking about a better and more stable system, I favour a Keynesian approach
http://www.monbiot.com/2008/11/18/clearing-up-this-mess/

 

Indeed they are!!!!!

THEY ARE SHEEP -- ASLEEP AND IN THIER CONTROL!!!!!!

 

I also want to add that even IF we somehow were able to back to a gold standard and abolish the FED like some people want for some weird reason, doing so does NOT prevent robber barons or financial collapses (recessions and depressions).

Economic history, BEFORE the FED was even created and BEFORE we went on a fiat money system, proves this as FACT.

 

I believe it was JFK who first brought up backing our money once again with gold and silver, against the wishes of the Fed.

 

Correct, Individual , some ,myself included, feel this fact could have something to do with his assassination. 50 yrs ago , this month.

 

No, I agree, the gold standard does not work for a variety of reasons, mainly IMO because gold has little practical value compared to many other finite resources. I was just making the point that the US$ has nothing to back up its value.

Yes it's true the Roman coins saw continued use for a long time after it was debased, and I didn't say it was the deciding factor, I said it was a big contributor.. Unchecked inflation. It saw continued use because of the same phenomenon we have today; faith in the value of the currency is the only thing that is valuable about the currency.

A Keynesian approach works well if we confine ourselves to our current way of thinking. Personally, and I think I've made this pretty obvious, I think we need a new system of trade altogether.. What I would describe as communism without capitalism. I have no idea how something like it would work in practice, as our current system provides a lot of convenience. But the system we have now drives people to chase profit at all costs. Leading to the rapid decline of our oceans' health, our environment, and humane practices. If a corporation can increase its profit margin by a percent, it will do so, regardless of the cost of human life and suffering, or environmental cost. Anything to increase its profit margin. Just like many people will go to great length to get money.

The kind of mentality the monetary system fosters.. It really is the root of all evil, and I believe the survival of the human race greatly relies on our ability to get rid of this destructive system.

 

Blame those evil kochsuckers!!!!

 

There needs to be a distinction of rights made between individuals (flesh and blood people) and the legal entity of (publically traded corporations who see the profit motive).

Right now the USA, and many other developed countries under their respective Constitution, operate under the blurred meanings of the 14th Amendment's definition of "Person" and therefore get certain legal protections, that lead to loopholes in the law they can exploit.

 

Like individual rights versus group rights?
Any Corporation that lacks involvement of (flesh and blood people) should indeed be distinguished differently from individuals (flesh and blood people).

Are we still talking about the debt ceiling?

 

To your first point, kind of, even if a corporation hires or has some involvement with "flesh and blood people", any change in the law needs to close loopholes in cases of "token" involvement between a corporation and interaction with real people at the employee or public consumer level (or small businesses).

Also legally the term "small businesses" should no longer on legalese represent S-Corporations.

^I'm talking about those kind of changes to capitalism which is an abuse of the system, and no American no matter what party they align most with, should stand for it.

There also needs to be incentive changes in American business that put safety in par of importance to share holders and profits for the stock.

To the second, no I don't think we're talking about the debt ceiling much anymore as of the last few posts.

 

Maybe this subject would be more appropriately addressed in a thread of its own, as it's unlikely to gain any attention by those who would be interested in pursuing it based on this threads topic title?