Hitlers plans for the UK invasion

No matter what scenario you use the thing was a dud!

Even if the RAF did not exist, it still would have been a disaster. The RN Home Fleet was simply far too strong.

In tonnage alone it was 10 times the size of the German Navy available in September 1940. In gunnery it was probably 20 times. In fact they COULD have sunk the lot with bow waves and not fired a shot!

 

I'm sure that, after uncontested invasion and five years of German military occupation following the withdrawal of British military forces, and London's ordered demilitarization of militia and disarming of civilians, Channel Islanders, who'd had an English monarch since 1066, would take comfort in learning from you that the British could have defended the islands and repelled Nazi forces in 1940 without firing a shot. Not so. Not firing a shot is what handed British Isles to Nazi Germany's invasion force, and no shot was fired because the British War Cabinet knew they would have lost that fight.

 

"I'm sure that, after uncontested invasion and five years of German military occupation following the withdrawal of British military forces, and London's ordered demilitarization of militia and disarming of civilians, Channel Islanders, who'd had an English monarch since 1066, would take comfort in learning from you that the British could have defended the islands and repelled Nazi forces in 1940 without firing a shot. Not so. Not firing a shot is what handed British Isles to Nazi Germany's invasion force, and no shot was fired because the British War Cabinet knew they would have lost that fight."



I did put the word "COULD" in caps to assist those that could not see what i was trying to convey.

That is, that the task of getting 2000 fully loaded river barges across the Channel without getting swamped by a wave of less than a metre. Defended by 10 DDs and about 3 CAs (heavy cruisers of maximum 11" main guns) against :-

1 CV
5 BBs and CVs
12 CAs and CLs
60 DDs

......in the Home Fleet alone! And you can bet that the convoys would have been left by the escorts to their fate, and Gibraltar and the Med stripped of every possible ship to defend the homeland.

The Luftwaffe had NIL torpedo planes and the 'Stuka' was good on stationary targets, but useless against a ship doing 30 knots.

Of those 2000 barges only about 600 were powered, and those 600 would have had to TOW the other unpowered ones to an English beach. Maybe an expert like yourself can tell me how they unhook a loaded barge 200 metres from the surf and PUSH that barge to the beach. Side on to the surf and the soldiers drown!

Churchill was an ex 'First Sea Lord' and he knew al that!


And the British Army had a LOT more men and material than most people know about. More than enough to go collect a bunch of drowned rats.

 

The US seem to be making quite a mess of democracy these days.
Perhaps John Pilger should stand for president. I think that he would have far more support than most people would even dream of.

 

Churchill was no fool. He persuaded Ireland to remain neutral to avoid occupation and considerable loss of life.
The stories of the U boats refuelling off the west coat are largely untold and have let to many people regarding the Irish as traitors.
However the reverse was true. Traces of grinding paste were added to the fuel that would silently wreck the submarine engines over a period of months without raising suspicion. Meanwhile the sailors enjoying their Guinness at every bar were happy to brag to the locals, totally unaware that they were British secret agents. Even when they were offered a few extras by those redhead Irish girls, they never had a clue.
Due to the Irish superstitions, along with their religion, most of the people involved took their secrets to the grave.

 

Another less well known fact was that on 3rd Sept 1939, Canada did NOT declare war on Germany as Australia amd NZ had.

Canada remained neutral so that she could legally send teams to the USA to sign contacts that emptied her WW1 warehouses of every rifle, Thompson, and any other weapon and ammo, for urgent despatch to the UK By Sept 1940 "Dad's Army" was well equiped.
And those BEF troops (400,000 all up) that made it back home from Dunkirk and Le Havre, were sent on leave or to hospital to be patched up, and they were all well prepped for the invasion that never came.

P40s, Bostons and even P39s, etc etc etc and they even had 2 fully equiped and trained Canadian Divisions, 1 Australian Division, and 1 NZ Division ready and waiting.

AND HMAS Australia (CA) and some RCN ships at Scapa Flow! PLUS a brand new RAAF Squadron of Sunderlands handed over to Coastal Command for the duration. We saw them again 1946.

 

It's of course all speculation and opinion about what might have been, mine as well as yours. The Royal Navy was excellent, but it didn't prevent or deter an invasion of the Channel Islands, and it wouldn't have stopped a similar, but larger invasion of the English coast itself. The evacuation of packed-and-ready-to-go civilians from Guernsey and Jersey gives the best indication of the Royal Navy's control of the Channel in 1940. The evacuation fell somewhere between nonexistent and chaotic, but closer to nonexistent.

The Royal Navy did very successfully blockade the Channel Islands much later in the war, but that produced only German soldiers who were hungry and British subjects who were literally starving.

 

The Channel islands was a minor side show, doomed anyway, and still only a minor part of 1940.

Can you refute the FACTS of what i have posted so far?

 

We're dealing in the subjunctive mood here. The facts are not in dispute. In the indicative mood, the UK won the war, and Germany lost the war.

You seem to be arguing with yourself. In 1940, the outcome years-on was not certain for the people living the events of 1940. Today, we know exactly how it turned out. Why it turned out that way is still open to discussion. The final history has not yet been written. The body of informed opinion is not yet complete, even as most of the direct participants are now deceased.

 

Your pics are interesting, The soldier at 'RAF Headquarters' seems like a fake. Any info?

And I wonder that the Heer band may have been part of the Kreigsmarine visit in about 1936 i think?

PS, My ships list says 5x BBs and CVs it should be BCs - (Battlehips and Battlecruisers)

And no, the debate is with you and your initial response!

 

You forgot to mention India. The idiotic Nazis had to be stopped at all costs. We were led to believe that the entire population of Germany supported Hitler, but recent research has shown that it was not entirely true. Unfortunately, the persecution of the German citizens following WW1 caused a lot of German people to initially flow with the tide, later to regret it.

Another little realised fact was that thousands of German Jews fled to the UK, both before and at the outbreak of the Polish invasion.
When war was declared by the UK, these people, being German citizens were rounded up and put in make shift prisons. However we soon realised that they hated the Nazis as much, if not more than we did. After an interview, most were released, only needing to report to a police station for a few minutes daily. Due to many of our teachers joining our army and leaving a serious shortage, many of the Jews were offered a position teaching in our schools. By reporting for work in the morning, they did not need to report to a police station.
WW2 was not like we see it in the war films.

 

"Another little realised fact was that thousands of German Jews fled to the UK, both before and at the outbreak of the Polish invasion.
When war was declared by the UK, these people, being German citizens were rounded up and put in make shift prisons. However we soon realised that they hated the Nazis as much, if not more than we did. After an interview, most were released, only needing to report to a police station for a few minutes daily. Due to many of our teachers joining our army and leaving a serious shortage, many of the Jews were offered a position teaching in our schools."


Some of these people, about 500 I think, were sent to Australia on the HMT "Dunera". Many were highly qualified and made a major contribution to the Australian war effort. Most remained in Australia after the war.

HMT Dunera - Wikipedia