History shows that America beats up the powerless in retaliation

Not really but if you want to stroke your ego go ahead!.Germans got to greedy. When they attack russia was the start of there demise. Now they were being attacked on both sides. But you Americans like to think you are the savior of the world.

 

Megara, Shut up...

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

will do, thanks for the recommendation.

 

Does America beat-up the powerless?

The events leading up to World War II might give us a clue.

In 1853 Japan had lived in peaceful isolation for near 200yrs. For 200yrs not a single Japanese soldier had set foot on another country.
All they wanted was to be left alone.

Then we came.
We came with the most technologically advanced weapons on Earth. A squadron of steam frigates. Fire Dragons to the frightened Japanese.
Each frigate with a broadside of heavy artillery that could smash entire city blocks in a split second.

We gave the Japanese two choices. Open their markets to American Capital, or be destroyed.
Having no modern weapons to defend themselves with, the Shogun caved in, and lost face.
The Shogun's days were numbered, and the Emporer was restored to full imperial power.

Looking across the Yellow Sea in 1853, the Japanese saw their future fate.
Across the Yellow Sea in China, the profit hungry wolves of Anglo-Saxon power were tearing China apart and devouring it in the orgy of the Opium War.
Anglo-Saxon America was highly invested in that war.
The Japanese seeing that they as Yellow Asians could expect no mercy from the proud racist Anglo-Saxons, realized they had again but two choices.
To bend over like China and take it up the ass, or to become a modern colonial imperial wolf themselves.
The Japanese followed our example and chose the second option.

In 1853 we stuck a stick up the sleeping Tiger's ass, and on December 7th, 1941 the Tiger turned and struck his revenge.

 

and on august 14th 1945, the emperor lost not only control of his country, but his divinity. Some tiger, huh.

 

Oh come on, you make it sound like we were bad guys. Perry wasn't about to kill innocent Japaneese, and when they saw our "fire dragons" their realized that their ethnocentric shit had just been ruined, and that they would have to modernize in order to once again become the "superior society" that they thought they had been for hundreds of years. The U.S. didn't push anything on Japan, they just saw what we had and they were frothing at the mouth for it.

 

Everyone who participates in wars is bound to make mistakes and there is no way anyone can say that their side did not make mistakes becouse it is inpossible if you look in the history.If americans sead to Japs, "hey look, we are gonna drop this bomb in the middle of nowhere and you see what it does, and if you don't surrender, we are gonna drop it somewhere more populated".IF that happened, I think things whould have been different, but it is useless to discuss about that cose what happened happened and it can't be changed.

What we can change is our future and we have to realize that everything has an alternative way of working out and understand that life is better then death.

Wars are very confusing and we don't know half of what actualy went on and what actually coused wars so we shouldn't trust everything we see, hear and read.

Its one thing to hear the news and read books about wars and aclually be there.
I have actually been there(Bosnia) and I wouldn't wanna wish it to anyone else even if you are my worst enemy.
Before the war I was looking at the war from the outside, just like most of you guys, but when its happening around you, its a horribly different world.When you see peeps being shot and killed for no good reason, something just changes inside you and you are never the same.Fortuantely I didn't see that much, and waht I saw was enough to realize that wars are disinged for nothing and nothing is not good.

So, think twice of what you think or say about war, cose one day you might fond that you are wrong .

 

We were the saviors there buddy. If it weren't for the US, we'd be, oh hell, you know.
Yes, they were more advanced than us. Our soldiers were practicing with toys. The Germans were researching nuclear weapons. Einstein is the one who told the US they better research it first. The Germans invented Jet engines. They made the V2 rockets(though they weren't too accurate). They were so far advanced, it was amazing. They designed the stealth bomber, they just couldn't build it. They made things so far ahead of time. We use a lot of things the Germans made/developed during WW2. Look it up.

 

a lot of people were saviors...dont forget the brits or the nucks

 

I have to agree with Maverick, there was no way the Brits could have launched an invasion of mainland Europe without the help of the U.S., and even if they did there was certainly no way they could hope to push the nazis all the way through France and then get to Berlin. The U.S. was the savior of the Allies.

 

I dont think there is much doubt that the US played the biggest role in ww2. You cant forget the role of others.

When DDay went down.. Americans only took 2 of the 5 beaches...the brits and canadians the other 3. The brits DID endure the bombing of london and keep the nazi's off their soil.

Not to mention everything the british/australians/canadians did in NA and Italy along with us.

Plus the brits/australians/canadians were fighting in Asia 2 years before we were.

While i personally dont think they would have won if we stayed completely neutral(no lend-lease shit included). They did fight bravely for their country and we won because they were on our side.

 

All if the Allies played important roles, and if you take away any one Ally, you can arguably say that that we could have lost. If that dosen't make any sense it's because it's 1 A.M. and I haven't had any Dew yet. Speaking of which....

 

As a first in this thread... let me give credit to Megara for pointing out the US was an important contributor to the war.

The USA did wait until later (and after accumulating a lot of wealth) but they certainly did their part in finishing the war.

If any of the allies were not helping then the rest may well have failed.
So there is no real point in saying 'If it werent for us....'

One thing younger uninformed Americans should avoid saying is things like "We beat the Germans"
or
"We won the war"

You wont hear a lot of Allied nations 'rubbing in' that America did not have to endure invasion and entered the war at their convenience
However
You dont want to 'discount' the astonishing heroism and bravery of countries which endured brutal horror and attrition by saying "We (USA) won"

That is the kind of thing that makes other countries hate Americans, if you know what I mean?

One factor in this - The Yanks took severe casualties at D-Day and after that it was hard to critisise them for being 'floaters' of any kind.
I think 'Omaha' was the one beach where the germans had gotten an early 'tip off'?
It was pretty nasty.
I have seen film reels taken from the German side and at times its nothing more than watching Americans in meat-grinders being picked off at will.
Ugly ugly stuff.

If I had to give any 'Special mention' it would be to either the British Secret Service, who effectively 'out-intelligenced' Hitler - or - The Russians for being the toughest and most determined s.o.b.s. on the planet.
(not to mention storming Berlin in one of the most fierce and determined onslaughts ever)

Having said that - there was not one Ally who does not deserve full and rightful credit for doing what needed to be done at the end of the day!

 

Just a small note, you people seem to forget about russia. Maybe thats not in your american history books. And another small note the canadians pushed the furthest inland on d-day. But as far as I know all the allies contributed. They all were willing to sacrifice themselves, so we can live free and without prejudice.

 

Don't get me wrong - The Americans deserve every bit of credit they get when it comes to the history books.
What I find a bit strange is how the War is typically portrayed by 'Hollywood'.
This is signifigant because this is how many younger people 'understand' WW2 and America's involvement.

Case in point - excellent movie 'Saving Private Ryan':
If you didn't know any better, you would never know there was anyone in D-Day except the USA?
I don't think there is one singe 'Allusion' to any other forces!

Ok fair enough to say "its from an American perspective" but then you get films like U-571 which are 'based' on a true story. Again the Americans save the day by capturing the 'Enigma' from Germans.
Huh?
This is based on something the BRITISH did.

Whats next?
A movie where the Americans storm Hitlers Bunker and take over his command post?
Ok.. it was the Russians but that wouldn't 'sell tickets'.

I personally know a veteran who refused to watch any American made WW2 films because he would become physically aggravated at what he called 'nothing but revisionist propaganda' lol.

I think we all need to show respect by being as careful as possibly to keep and accurate and truthful history of what these guys did for us back then.
Many are now dying off and its becoming our responsiblity to do so.

 

America took 2 beaches. There wasnt canadians or british on the beaches we took..it would be historically inaccurate to include them. But hollywood rarely cares about accuracy

U-571 is based on the actual events of U-505, where an AMERICAN group took over the sub. However, the British did capture the first enigma. The story is fiction, but the US did capture an enigma from the germans without their knowledge.

You yourself need to make sure the facts you present are right.

 

Did you see the movie 'Saving Private Ryan'?

Only the opening scenes take place on the beaches.
The remainder of the movie takes place -
In the 'present' (no mention or sign of allied flags or monuments)
Back in the USA (no mention of other forces who may help or aid them)
throughout France (don't see any other forces.. only Americans throughout)

Im sure some keener can find some references but I certainly didnt notice anything but a French Flag in the opening scene.

No. The film is base on the novel Enigma. The novel was fictional yes - but it was inspired by the BRITISH captures of Enigma codes and German Subs.
Their is a scene that closely resembles the events of U-505 (and event that happened several years after the British captures)
But..
The Enigma codes were Brits, thanks.

For what its worth the actual U-571 a Vet from the Canadian Merchant Marine (who was stationed in Australia) tells me the real U-571 beat the shit outta all kinds of Allies and Brits until an Aussie fighter plane took it out off the shores of Australia somewhere.
He also agrees the film is cleary based on the British capture of the Enigma codes.

I think I just demonstrated the need for you to follow your own advice.

 

Many of these seem relevant to our discussions:

Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
-Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to
succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand
with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right,
and part with him when he goes wrong.
-Abraham Lincoln

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and
lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
-Abraham Lincoln

I said, 'Mr. President, you have changed your mind entirely within a
short time.' [Lincoln] replied, 'Yes, I have; and I don't think much
of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.'

Power is of two kinds. One is obtained by the fear of punishment and
the other by acts of love. Power based on love is a thousand times more
effective and permanent then the one derived from fear of punishment.
-Mahatma Gandhi

Men cannot see their reflection in running water, but only in still
water.
-Chuang Tzu, philosopher (c. 4th century BCE)

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt
-Bertrand Russell

Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
-Albert Einstein

The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's
conscience.
-Harper Lee

When money speaks, the truth keeps silent.
-Russian proverb

"Millionaires do not use astrology, billionaires do."
-J.P. Morgan

Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from
a defeat.
-Jean-Paul Sartre

To do nothing is sometimes a good remedy.
-Hippocrates

Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its
full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not
limit itself to mankind.
-Albert Schweitzer

When nations grow old, the arts grow cold and commerce settles on every
tree.
-William Blake

Every increased possession loads us with new weariness.
-John Ruskin (1819-1900)

He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his
reason is weak
-Michel De Montaigne

Intellectuals solve problems: geniuses prevent them.
-Albert Einstein

I am not one of those who believe that a great army is the means of
maintaining peace, because if you build up a great profession those who
form parts of it want to exercise their profession.
-Woodrow Wilson

Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
-Abraham Lincoln


Thanks Rick A.

 

I cant remember the exact figures, but around the time of D-Day Germany had roughly 70% of its army deployed in Russia. If these forces had been deployed in Germany and France instead, there is no way we could have successfully launched in invasion. Just about every historian agrees that the turning point of World War 2 was the battle of Stalingrad, an event that occured 2 years prior to the D-Day invasion, at a time when America was still mobilizing for war. The Soviet Union by far did the most fighting and dying during the war, an achievement that people still cant seem to give them credit for.

 

From the u-571 website itself. "He decided to construct a story of an enigma machine from u-110 by the royal british navy in may 1941; the british seizure of a short weather enigma cipher taken from u-559 in october 1942; and the capture of u-505 by the US navy in june 1944."

www.u571.com

As i said. We captured an engima, but the british did it first.

As for saving private ryan, it tracks the freaking american military to save one guy. What do you expect honestly? i Didnt see any references to british/american fighting in "enemy at the gates." Oh yeah, it was about the russians.