History shows that America beats up the powerless in retaliation

they learned that in the 19th century after the franco-prussian war when imperialism REALLY kicked in....and what did we have after that? ww1 and ww2...

the difference? American soldiers on the continent....

 

wow Willow...for someone claiming to be an expert in Anthro...you dont know your human history too well do you?


do you know how much blood was shed on the soils of Europe and Russia?

how much native blood was shed?

entire nations and tribes went extinct from warfare in those places.

how about both WWs? both wars were fought on European and Russian soil.

The Baltic wars?

The revolutions?

The rise and fall of the Soviet Union??

the rise and fall of the various empires...roman,ottoman,French,and Nazi.



The Europeans and Russians live in relative peace(unless you are in Kosovo,Chechny,Turkey,Armenia,and Cyprus)because of the millions and millions of people who's blood was shed on NATIVE soil.


if you even go back 2000 years when the Celts were wiped out...you cannot fathom how much blood was shed and how many people died.



get off your fucking high horse already.


The Vietnamese dont need your priveleged ass speaking for them.

 

for once, i'm amazed, i'm in agreement with willow. we only live in peace because our wars are fought elsewhere. we kinda forget that. i hate when people say they're defending our nation's freedom, since a lot of time, our nation's freedom has NOTHING to do with the conflict at hand.

 

I just love these unhinged rants.

Yeah remember the utopian paradise that was the third world before WW2? I don't. The end of WW2 did see the dismantling of colonial empires all over the world. Most people would think that was good. Apparently people in countries like Korea missed to good ol' days of subsistence farming. The fact is living standards across the third world have vastly improved in nearly all countries since WW2. LW calls this progress a "living hell".

Now this is just complete ranting. Americans have absolutely nothing to do killings in Rwanda and Congo. Try to imagine this: it is possible for people to die in the world without it being America's fault. In fact the occasions when the US (Somalia) and the UK (Sierra Leone) try to stop brutality in Africa they either get vilified by people like LW or completely ignored. The overwhelming, all encompassing, irrational, insatiable hatred of people like LW for the United States will always triumph over any attempt to accomplish humanitarian good.

It really takes a certain delusional, pathological hatred of America to pretend that people in Malaysia, Thailand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea, and Taiwan are no better off today than if they were slaves of a Japanese empire. In fact what I really think it shows is the incredible fury LW has at the fact that the world is not ending.

Spoken like someone who has never lived under communism. Maybe you don't give a fuck whether South Korea is a free and prosperous country or whether they starve by the millions because they can't live on moss scraped off of rocks like their communist brothers across the borders have to. Maybe you think "Year Zero, year whatever, what the fuck do I care about Cambodia? I only know that I hate the USA". Maybe you couldn't care less, but to some of us this matters.

 

There is nothing more tragic and horrible than people defending the dropping of weapons that killed 200,000 people at one time. "We stopped the war!" "More American soldiers would have died if we didn't do it!" Blah blah blah. You murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings and set up a pattern of horrifying the WORLD into submission.

No Willow, there is nothing more tragic and horrible than war. Stopping a war should be honored. If you could peacefully stop the killing in Iraq and save men, women and children from dying, I'd put up a monument to you myself.
But back to the 200,000 deaths due to dropping the bombs.
50 million people died in that war, which by the way the United States did not start. Now Japan cant be held accountable for over 2/3rds of these because those happened in Europe and Russia.
(Europe and America and Russia have lived in relative "peace" because they learned to fight their wars on OTHER PEOPLE'S soil.)
Hello, 18M civilians and 17M soldiers died in the European War.

But back to the bomb. The war started in Jul 7, 1937.. not Dec 7, 1941, not Sep 1, 1939.
Eight years later, estimate is that 11M civilians and 4.5M soldiers died in the Asian/Pacific War. That's 15,500,000 deaths which can probably be blamed on the Japanese to one extent or another.
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Second

Were they innocent as you claim? In other posts you say all the people who died in the towers were guilty, due to what the US has done. But we murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings. Which way is it Willow? Oh wait, the people in the towers were Americans..

"More American soldiers would have died if we didn't do it!"
How many Japanese civilians would have died if we invaded?

 

excellent post

 

To clarify: When I say western Europe and America and Russia have lived in "peace" since WWII, what I am saying is that they have EXPORTED their wars to pathetic third world countries. They learned their lesson - you don't need to kill nice rich white folks to fight wars - you just use the world's poor as little chess pieces - each side arms some of them and manipulates the situation to have them kill each other. Whichever side wins, well, that western country gets another 'ally'. It's pathetic, really. These rich bastards aren't going to kill EACH OTHER anymore - we can't have THAT - so we'll just fight it out in little countries we control. Disgusting.

 

You complained about the US in Yugoslavia and bitched that the US (and the world) did nothing about the killings going on in Rwanda. (because they are only black folks)
But I have a feeling that if we went into Rwanda, you still would say we would be exporting our wars.

Please tell me what would be a good cause to have troops go into?

 

technically, there are quite a few poor white kids in the military, too, my family would count as some of those. please don't flame me.

 

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Japan was an evil agressor in the Pacific, but look at what they saw in us. Within a few hundred years we spread from Europe and swallowed most of North America from coast to coast wiping out the natives. We picked a fight with Mexico to steal the west coast. Then, we were in Alaska, Hawaii, the Phillipenes, not to mention England and France in China and southeast Asia.
They must have felt like sitting ducks. Can you blame them for attacking out ships in Hawaii?
Yes, dropping the bombs saved many Allied troop lives, but I can't help feel that dropping the bombs just off shore, or in unpopulated areas should have been tried first. If they were white Europeans I think that idea would have been tried first.

In nearly all of our wars, too many people died because our leaders fail to look at the big picture. Most of the problems we have now are from the short sitedness of past leaders. Reagan and Bush Sr. especially, in regaurds to the problems with Iraq and muslim terrorist. Our CIA, secret government, covert military operations, and big corportations created the terroist and people like Sadam. Ollie North and Bush Sr and Reagan, trained terrorist in central American to kill innocents, including women and children, and illegally supplied them with $$$ through profits they made by selling arms illegally to middle eastern thugs. And that's just the tip of the iceburg.

You think this, prisoner abuse thing is something new? We've been teaching the third world poor to hate our two faced government for generations.
Greed, is all it comes down to. Greed is the seed that has spread this evil all over the world. And the biggest power of the world is in the hands of a few greedy people and "the average American" voter. And the average American is more interested in who wins "American Idol" then learning anything about America's role in recent and past world events.

Frankly, I'm sick of peoples children being killed (ours and theirs) because most of America can't see through the filters of the mainsteam media, and don't want to beleive OUR country can be wrong.

 

what makes you think we would have shown any mercy to the germans if we had the bomb sooner? We bombed the fuck out of germany for years on end....firebomed dresden.........you think we went soft on the nazis? What on earth makes you think racism was involved? What proof? or is it just another silly comment agaisnt America?

 

Example- We rounded up American Japanese (even those that couldn't even speak Japanese) and locked them in camps during the war. We didn't do that to German Americans, even those that couldn't speak a word of English.

 

japan also attacked us....but i agree, we were wrong

 

You make it sound like they were in concentration camps. We fed them, clothed them, made sure they had decent living space. They could participate in recreational activity. And yes, we did round up the Germans too, and they were treated the same as the Japanese. I'm not saying that what we did to them during the war was OK, but I just wanted to clarify.

 

Ive said it before and I will say it again - Hiroshima and Nagasaki are possibly two of the sickest most horrifying crimes against humanity in the last 100 years.

Had Japan or Germany done the same things - there would be absolutely no question everyone involved would be tried for murderous war crimes and sentenced to death by hanging.

Then museums would be built so that no generation would ever forget the Holocaust.

It is possibly one of the most despicable acts of terrorism bar none.

Do not bother replying about this 'saving lives' because those two bombs could have easily been set off in combatant arenas or simply beside a city.

Make no mistake - there was no question these were cities full of civilians and that the bombs would primarly killed civilians.

1000 times worse than 9/11, Dresden but not worse than Rwanda.

 

Right, America when dropping the bomb in Japan target civilians. Sure it was effective, sure it stopped "The Second War to End All Wars." But it was traitorous to mankind as a whole. I keep thinking of the women and children of Iraq who lived through Saddam, and then had to feel the fear all over again of America invading and more bombs dropped over Bagdad every single day than were dropped during the entire first Gulf fiasco. Over and over, more bombs coming down on their heads. Women and children. And then no stability of government, and basically endless war. Look at photos of Iraq. It's name is abomination. And we are to blame in no small way. Toxic syndromes will carry on there for hundreds of years. Many of you kids are taking dope thinking you're cool, trying to act like hippies, but I will tell many of you who replied, you aren't hippies. You don't have the heart. To those who share in the suffering of others. Thank you for giving me hope for humanity.

 

well, chodpa, i'm not a hippy, i come here for diverse opinions and to talk to all the friends i've made, who are hippies. it's a balancing that i think everyone needs desperately in their lives. i do agree with you in your pain for the innocents who suffer.

 

Nagasaki and Hiroshima were military industrial producting cities, as was Dresden.

If we were going for civilians, we would have bombed Tokyo or Kyoto.

 

no they wouldnt have hung...if japan or germany had the nuke we'd be speaking a foreign language.