Hillary Clinton

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Karen_J, Oct 1, 2015.

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  1. The Walking Dickhead

    The Walking Dickhead orbiter of helion

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    I just wanted to convey the general discourse without going into too much detail.
     
  2. storch

    storch banned

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    I'm sorry, but this post of yours clearly indicates that you are the one who introduced the credibility of the FBI into this discussion as a way to prove your point about Hillary's guilt. Therefore, it is not out of line for me to address their credibility as a way to disprove your point.
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Whatever.

    I'm not the only mod in this thread, so I don't really care.

    I'll address any points you bring up in regards to the FBI being corrupt in their investigation of Hillary Clinton's email server, however I am not debating the entire history of the FBI as that would take us back to 1908.

    I apologize for not being clear in that I was addressing their investigation of Hillary Clinton. (Same with my other questions about the government/legal system et al, I'm not going to debate the entire history of the U.S. in this thread.)
     
  4. storch

    storch banned

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    You asked others whether or not they had faith in the FBI. You asked if they believed that the FBI was corrupt. You asked those questions as a way to bolster your position that Hillary Clinton is not guilty of any crimes. I took issue with that position, and so I provided evidence of FBI corruption, thereby putting their credibility in question. This is not about the FBI. It is about the credibility of the organization you are pointing to for the purpose of proving Hillary's innocence.
     
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    First of all, in the U.S. we don't prove anyone's innocence, we have to prove their guilt.

    Second, the FBI can't prove that Hillary was guilty, all they can do is recommend to the Justice Department that she be indicted by a Grand Jury. Then, if the Grand Jury finds probable cause she would have to appear before a magistrate or judge. They would then determine if there is sufficient evidence to go to court. Then she would have to be Arraigned, or told what the charges were. Next is Discovery and Motion, her chance to address the charges. Only after all that is complete would a trial take place. Up until a guilty verdict is reached in a trial, she is innocent. She never has to prove her innocence.

    Third, just because the FBI acted inappropriately in one instance, or more, that doesn't mean they acted inappropriately in this instance. Again the onus is not on me to prove that the FBI acted correctly in this instance, it's on you to prove that they didn't.

    Fourth, I clarified what I meant by asking if you thought the FBI was corrupt. I was referring to this instance, not every instance in the entire 108 years of it's existence. Even if you could prove that the FBI has never, ever conducted an honest investigation...that doesn't prove that this investigation was improper.

    If you have a link to emails, documents, memos, or testimony that suggests that the investigation of Hillary's server was corrupt...present them.
    But don't show me rumors, unsubstantiated theories, hearsay, or opinions. I already know what your opinion is.

    Meanwhile people can rant and rave about how guilty Hillary is, it only proves that they don't understand the U.S. justice system or the principle of the presumption of innocence:

     
  6. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    If you think Hillary is too corrupt to be President then don't vote for her. She's been cleared of any wrongdoing, whether she deserves to be cleared or not. Get over it.

    On the other hand you know Trump is too corrupt to be President, so don't vote for him either.

    So in this case either don't vote or vote third party. Either way it's a waste of a vote but at least if you vote third parry you'll be making a statement.
     
  7. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    No one ever listens to that statement though...
     
  8. storch

    storch banned

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    Yeah, I hear what you're saying. You're saying that just because an organization can be shown to have repeatedly been found to be making up--or withholding--evidence (in other words, lying), it doesn't mean you can't trust them. I'm sorry, but I have a higher standard than you do when it comes to credibility. Your appeal to authority, especially in this case, does not serve your point.
     
  9. DarkSideOfTheMoon94

    DarkSideOfTheMoon94 Members

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    This is gold

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkPe-9rM1Q
     
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  10. storch

    storch banned

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    Yeah, that's pretty funny.
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Trust doesn't enter into the equation.
    So let's look at it this way.

    Suppose someone enters a certain bank 108 times in a row, exits, and is arrested and found guilty of robbing that bank 108 times due to the evidence presented in a court of law, 108 times.
    After getting of of jail, they then walk into the same bank and exit it. Have they robbed that bank for the 109th time? Are they automatically guilty of bank robbery?

    I don't think so. We may think the likely hood of them having committed the 109th robbery to be very likely. But guess what, in the United States we would still have to have a reason to arrest them, have a trial and present evidence proving that they robbed that bank.

    You are highly suspicious of the FBI...you don't have to trust them, I wouldn't trust that bank robber, but you still need proof that they fouled up the email investigation.
    This is not an appeal to authority it is a statement that you need proof to support your suspicions.

    I never said you must believe the FBI because they are experts, I said you have to prove they did something wrong. Experts or amateurs, government agency or private investigative firm...how did they screw up?

    You made the claim..can you back it up in the Hillary matter? Show me I'm wrong. Offer proof that the FBI purposely or otherwise choose to not recommend indictment of Hillary because they were inept, corrupt, paid off, whatever.
     
  12. tumbling.dice

    tumbling.dice Visitor

    Everybody just relax...we only got to make it till 2020 and then we can redo this whole damn thing. [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Aerianne

    Aerianne Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I sure as Hell don't want the person who robbed the bank 108 times running the bank.
     
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  14. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    1 person likes this.
  15. Aerianne

    Aerianne Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  16. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    Oh didnt see someone else has already posted about it
     
  17. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    I already know how the narrative will go on this go..something like, IT dude didnt tell Hillary what he did so there was no intent on her part to commit a crime.
     
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  18. NoHobo

    NoHobo Members

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    I don't think this IT guy stuff will make any difference. Clinton already took the hit over the e-mail thing, it's nothing new. No one is going to be any more pissed off about it because of this. Plus, her base and most sane voters do not particularly care about this kind of stuff.
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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  20. storch

    storch banned

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    Well, since you asked.

    FBI director Comey said that "although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgement is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case," and then added, "prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past."
    ___________________________________________________________________

    You take him at his word, right?
     
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  21. Yes, no sane person would care if their commander in chief doesn't know how to handle classified information.
     
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  22. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear Newbie

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    yeah, can't wait.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Aerianne

    Aerianne Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Hillary people come of sounding utterly mad.
     
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