Hiel Hitler!!!

Stoner kid makes a good point, Luke...

You are aguing with completely ignorant individuals...

 

wow waht a thread...haha,
I love exciting discussions like this one.

 

There's a time to live and a time to die.Oh yeah-almost forgot-a time to smoke a doob.And that time is right now.

 

hitler has only got one ball his other is in the albert hall his mother the dirty bugger cut it off when he was small

 

lol watch any Vietnam war movie. US soldiers burned down village after village and killed every person in that village before moving on to the next one.

 

It's heil hitler by the way.

In which ways exactly?

 

Before 30th of January, 1933, Germany was in devastating unemployment due to the 1929 Wall Street crash. Unemployment was at an all-time-high with over 6 million unemployed. When Hitler was elected chancellor (1933) the unemployment rate dropped drastically due to him creating new jobs in the form of autotrade and factory work. He basically saved Germany's economy. He brought the unemployment rate from nearly 50% to an average number. Which, in my opinion, is a great achievement. Hitler brought 'bread and work' to the country, as he promised prior to his election. He is an extraordinary man, and a dictator that did things in totally 'legal' ways, thus not technically making him a dictator.

I'm a History student, by the way.:tongue:

 

people like to say that disrupting nazi organization is an attack on free speech, but i do not recognize any body of authority's right to dictate what ANYONE can or cant say or do. preventing nazis from organizing is motivated by the idea that when they do organize openly and recruit new people they immediatley start using violence against people based on social identifiers, which is entirely different than attackign someone based on their actions. people cant help being black or jewish. people can help whether or not they are a nazi fuck. to say that advocating fighting nazis makes me a nazi is like saying those who faught wars against fascists are fascist themselves...the allied forces who faught hitler..would you call them all nazis for fighting someone just because of their beliefs? would you call the cnt or the abraham lincoln brigades and spanish sydicalists who faught franco in the civil war fascists? no i dont think so. we are not fascists for wanting to prevent them from ever gaining a hold anywhere ever again.

 

But you yourself are trying to force your beliefs on people (Nazi's) that don't believe the same. You can't FORCE them not to be Nazi's; it's just the way they are. If a person is racist then that's fair enough, but if they're violent racists that's different. But what you're doing is fighting fire with fire, and actually attacking Nazi's for the way they think, which, in itself, is pretty 'Nazi'-esque. You ARE infringing their right to freedom of speech and belief, because you're making an attempt to stop them thinking the way they do.

Also, you make it sound like there are morals in war: there isn't. The Allies didn't go to war with Germany because of their henious crimes to Jew's; countries only go to war for personal and social gain for their own country. And yes, in this game we call 'war', there are only Fascists.

Now, I'm not opposed to war in the slightest, but nor am I an advocate of war. Sometimes the only thing you can do is fight back physically, but to fight belief is totally futile and destroys the fundamentality of the freedom of speech.

 

i am talking about violent racists. racists who intimidate and use violence against immigrants, blacks, and jews for nothing more than where or how they were born or raised. i have never met or seen a pacifist nazi out in the streets. they obviously exist, but they are not the ones out in the streets recruiting national socialists. their belief is much more destructive when left alone then when you prevent them from organizing. as i said before it has nothing to do with the "right" to free speech, as i dont believe in anyone or any system's ability to dictate what we can and can't do. it has everything to do with the fact that when you leave them alone THEY KILL PEOPLE and when you maintain a visual and sometimes physichal opposition to them, they hesitate to organize and recruit in public again.

 

So basically you're threatening them with violence to prevent them from organising?

 

not explicitly it would depend on the situation. sometimes i think maintaning a strong, highly visible anti-racist presence in the face of a demonstration would encourage those being targeted for recruitment to re-consider and prevent them from getting positive media coverage and photo opps..

other times it could be effective to non-violently block or interupt a rally or march. violence is often instigated by nazis in these types of situations, so its important to be prepared for self-defense..

 

So Nazi's shouldn't have the right to hold rallies, like everyone else, such as anti-fascists?

 

Me too, but quite a lazy one . At first instance I thought the Dawes plan saved German economy, but I looked it up and after the Beurskrach it needed to be saved again of course. Well, that doesn't make Hitler cool in my opinion, since he did that with his dreadful plans in his mind.

 

you keep going back to that over and over again. i dont believe in body of authority, hierachy, or governments ability to dictate what is and is not within our "rights". i dont believe in a right or wrong conception of universal morality. popular sentiment seems to be that nazis and fascists are wrong, but should be ignored. i do not believe this. they continue to use racist violence and more often than you may think murder those they consider inferior. i am not a pacifist, but i do not advocate killing anyone for any reason. i do advocate disrupting the furtherance of any fascist ideology because they target people for reasons that are completely beyond their control and preach hatred and random racist violence. we are opposed to them because of decision they made and their actions which ARE a fair way to judge someone, very much unlike the color of their skin.

its not about their rights. they can be there in the streets just like anti-racists can be there to oppose them. and after that its just an issue of your regard to violence. if you say your for freedom of assembly and speech, then obviously you think its fair for both the nazis and anti-racists to be there. is your objection just that someone might throw a couple fists? that's what some people deserve (because of their actions, not the color of their skin).

 

True enough, but the best way to look at history is in an unbiased light. Of course Hitler wasn't cool; he didn't wear winklepickers!:tongue:

 

No, it's not that. I just don't see the logic in physically fighting a group of people based on their beliefs. Who are you to say that their beliefs are wrong?

 

if they simply held the belief i would do nothing but discuss the issue with them and let them know that i am an anti-racist and do not agree. however when they act on this belief and publcily demonstrate in numbers i believe more visible and active resistance is appropriate. the actions i would personally support are in proportion to the fascists action. i have had decent conversations with racists before, knowing that they were racists so long as the conversation stayed on neutral subjects and they did nothing to act on these beliefs in my presence.

when nazis demonstrate publicly, they strip many many others of their "rights". if you want to discuss rights and the issues surrounding public fascist demonstrations, think about how the right to persuit of happiness and liberty that are being stripped away from any jew, minority, immigrant, or gay in close proximity. think about what seeing many people dressed as storm troopers with swazticas in full display while walking on the sidewalk would do for someone who was a desendent of holocaust victims? that deserves opposition in my opinion, non-violent so long as non-violence is effective and the nazis are non-violent with us.

 

Your right, but I was thinking in more recent history. If we search all of history then every country has easily killed innocent people intentionally. Some Native American tribes did the exact same thing to other Native Americans. Of course I think all of it is horrible, and I don't celebrate the days that any of it happened, or the people that made it happen.

 

If you defend nazi's because somoene wants to beat them up on the street, doesn't that make you as bad as a Nazi?