Hi I'm new

You would probably learn some good meditations from the Buddhist group along with practical techniques how to meditate - when you have accomplished that then move on if you don't want their philosophy/religion.

Here are some good questions to ask when you visit any group.
1. What are the objectives of the meditation, what can I hope to achieve.
2. When can I achieve these results - If you get answers like when the time is right, in N lifetimes - I would suggest you look for another group.
3.a If they speak about Enlightenment - ask what they mean by it (this is a very misunderstood word), here is one description from people I know who have attained the state.
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/...a/duerden.html
b. Ask if their instructor is Enlightened and has he/she Enlightened any students
4. True Spirituality has nothing to do personality or morals - people that teach this are just trying to control you.

Look up some of the simple breath meditations - they are powerful, however the drop out rate is extremely high if you don't have anybody to guide you and help keep you focused.


Good luck with your quest



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“The ultimate truth cannot be challenged”
www.acceleratedstates.com

 

Thanks Beyondtheastral. I think being controlled or brainwashed is what I am worried about if I join any type of "religion". I don't want to end up feeling I am unable to do certain things, or feel certain things lest i go straight to hell, or feel obliged to give money to "fund" their teachings. I really just want to meditate and see what happens, rather than be "told" what happens. (If you see what I mean)

 

Hi popsicle,

Here is a yoga and meditation site that I use. It's very practical and the practices lead to growth and growing Love (basically slowly chipping away at the energetic obstructions and karma that conceal who you truly are so that slowly the real you comes out and shines it's light) from my experience..

it's at http://www.aypsite.org. I love it.

Hope you have a Love-filled path

 

you already have everything you need, forget the groups. just sit down, relax all your muscles, and get true relaxation for the first time. feels good doesn't it? you're usually asleep when your body is in such a state. now that you're body is relaxed, move on to doing the same with your mind. now you're meditating. have fun.

 

Normally I wouldn't bother to write such a thing, so I ask forgiveness in advance, however, as a matter of correct definition for people who may not have done deep research into such topics I'll put forth my own understanding. Hopefully you wont mind some friendly debating to sharpen our knowledge?

I put forwatds these arguements.

First of all, there is no religion called "Hindu" if you want to be technically accurate, but of course for pragmatic purposes we can the many wide and very varied religious and spiritual practices and affiliations from the Indian Sub-Continent under this manner. But this does pose problems when stating, perhaps more so in cases other than this one, when stating what Hindus believe. Something is bound, more or less, to be inaccurate because of the extremely disparate believes of these many millions of people, some of whom still kill one another just like most other differing religions, but who more commonly argue among themselves as to what the truth is and is not.

Besides this, in the early days Hindus definitely did not feel Buddha was one of there own, preaching a path to the same goal with fewer distractions, but were quite opposed, at least philosophically if not with direct persecution, to the Buddha's message. The co-opting of Buddha as an incarnation of Vishnu and his attempted absorption into the Hindu fold only came much later.

Not to mention what the Buddhist themselves would feel about such a claim? I think it's only polite to allow a religion to define itself, rather than another religion super-seeding there own doctrine. To this point, I've never come across a Buddhist treaty claiming one Buddha's previous incarnations as Vishnu, but perhaps there is one.

You write Buddha taught a path leading to the same goal as Hinduism, but also write you know of no other religion (I presume you mean Buddhism) that teaches self-extinguishment as a goal. Perhaps you are including them both in this one religion of self-extinguishment? Regardless, on this point, there is plenty of disagreement and perhaps a fundamental disagreement between Hindu and Buddhist schools, that of Atman and Anatman. Hindu's claim the ultimate goal is realization of the Self/Atman whilst Buddist's claim it is realization of Anatman, No-Self. So based in this doctrinal difference, Buddhsim could not be teaching a path with the same goals as Hinduism, and therefore Buddhism cannot be considered a sect of Hinduism.

This is a point of debate and jest to this day between the two philosophies, in fact I asked this question just a few months ago to a teacher of Kashmiri Shaivism, she laughed and said how she enjoyed pocking fun and Buddhist's over this (wonderfully silly) point. Personally I feel as she does, a view she explained with a little more inquiry, that in fact these two things are one and the same, just with different names, perhaps given different definitions based on personal experience and understanding. However, these are personal views and as far as this discussion goes, does not invalidate my proposition that Buddhism is definitely not a sect of Hinduism as there has been much serious debate between on this point for centuries.

Buddha was born a Hindu, but did he die a Hindu? Jesus was born Jewish, but I don't think it would be accurate to claim Christianity as a sect of Judaism, even if it was Jesus' original intention to deliver a Jewish message to Jews it has becomes something far more than that and what is now Christianity stands alone from Judaism with it's own full formed and in many ways substantially different doctrine, just as Buddhism does in relation to Hinduism.

If we are to considered religion as cultures and ways of life, which would perhaps be a more apt description rather than doctrinal definitions alone I think the gap between two such different religions becomes even more pronounced, as this quite often where much of the disagreement and separation comes from, the humans.

As to what Buddha himself believed, taking Buddhist texts at their word, it would seem that he did not consider himself to have found a path to the same place which Hinduism leads one. He learnt from the best Hindu teachers he could find and none of them could take him to the goal which he aspired. He went into uncharted territory and came up with something nobody had found before, which is why Buddhism was so revolutionary at the time and why the Hindu's were so troubled by it, and not only did it bring a new philosophy but a new way of life that threw out many of the power structures of Hinduism, specifically the roles of the Brahman priests and caste system in general.

As as American was born a British Colony, into the British power structure, but it has become something far different and to claim it was still a within the British Commonwealth could be potentially offensive and quite incorrect. The American way of life and the British way of life, while similar and one owing it's Genesis to the other, are quite disparate and beyond confusion. Just as the doctrinal propositions and practical ways of life between Hindu's and Buddhist are quite disparate, neither belonging too nor requiring the other, but let's hope for our mutual benefit they can continue to be good friends!

Now I've surely embarrassed myself

 

I think you can find somebody to help you, I too would suggest investigating a Zen center, Soto Zen offers a very simple form of meditation with relatively little to push onto a newcomer, relatively little to push at all actually. I know of one Taoist teacher in America who purposely doesn't tell his students anything much at all in order to allow there own personal flowering with the minimal influence from his own understanding, so you might be lucky enough to find something from this field. Or you could look into forms of shamanism, I personally like Bradford Keeney's work.

As far as offering money, I don't think you should be shy about giving a little something, they are offering a service like any other institution and need to eat and keep the lights on like any other and quite frankly they are (hopefully) teaching something which could change you life more than 10 years of weekly therapy sessions at $100 a pop, however, that's much different from signing your life savings away, a small donation should be enough, usually they've given their lives to these practices, at least they should have if they are worth their salt. But it does sometimes depend, for eg. the Taoist teacher I spoke of while being very advanced is also quite exspensive as far as these things go.

I would also add from my own personal understanding, so take it or leave it, good practical advice is quite different from coercion into arbitrary and harmful beliefs, and you will find it quite difficult to progress without some practical input from qualified teachers. After all, although we might not be qualified, what are you asking for here? And with that in mind, maybe you would be much better off seeking the guidance of a good teacher with 30 or 40 years under his or her belt!

I would say go and learn from the best teacher you can, one which will allow you total freedom to live as you choose, it doesn't have to be either or, in this case you can have your cake and eat it too. It might be good to look into traditional Tantric Lineages. A saying from Kashimiri Shaivism is "Nothing is encouraged, Nothing is forbidden." Perhaps you might like "Passionate Enlightenment" by Miranda Shaw, which details the powerful role women women played in the formation of traditional Buddhist Tantra, and in some places still do. She has done some shorter interviews which you can find online. I recently spent a weekend with such a teacher, she is a transmitter of a thousand plus year old lineage which began with one of the most revered teachers in Tantric Hinduism and Buddhism, she taught very simply, profoundly and I remain absolutely free to do what ever we feel, infact, it is encouraged. Of course, where there is the most freedom there is the most responsibility and nobody will stop you reaping what you sow.

If you can't find such a teacher or tradition straight off, (I certainly didn't,) go to a good school which you can benefit from, learn what you need but don't buy into the BS and continue to live a life of your choosing.

 

1
Choose a tranquil location - one free from distractions.
2
Decide whether you'd like to have meditation music in the background.
3
Select a comfortable chair or place to sit, and assume a sitting position with your spine relatively straight.
4
Close your eyes.
5
Breathe in, allowing your rib cage and belly to expand as you inhale.
6
Exhale slowly.
7
Concentrate on your breathing. Be aware of each breath and the feelings of deeper relaxation.
8
Allow thoughts and feelings to enter your mind. Acknowledge them, allow them to pass, and refocus on your breathing.
9
Open your eyes after you feel more relaxed and centered