Discussion in 'Politics' started by 6-eyed shaman, Apr 1, 2019.
You know, I thought I was wrong, once, but I was mistaken.
An interesting deluge. You're just pouring words out and hoping maybe they'll stick? You don't know a flying crap about where I am on the environment. A hint; I was directly involved for almost 2 decades.
Don't waste your time trying to get personal with me in here, I don't play such useless games. If you want to actually discuss this, fine. But you clearly have every facet of your mind cemented on this list of pure innuendo and if I don't agree to your points, I'm going to be labeled as something. Right?
Dumping our polarized society on Trump seems to ignore the decades of division we have had in US society since Vietnam (and beyond). But then I hear that Americans owe the world's debt on slavery as well (even though the rest of the world had slavery for many more centuries, and some still do).
As for Trump being a racist; isn't that what is now being said about anyone who shares his skin color? And of course, anyone who doesn't "can't be a racist". We live in a strange time.
You seem to want sparring partners. I'm not interested.
And I still think Biden should run. If he can focus on something other than "Vote for me, I'm not Trump" kind of campaigning.
Where do you hear that? And why let it bother you when it's nonsense?
No. Maybe by some weird extreme people you shouldn't give too much merit?
You sometimes make it stranger than it is. People have always said stupid stuff. Other people only notice it better now because of the internet. And in return rile themselves up over trivial stuff
Yea right, kumbayaaaaaaaaaaaa.
What's the issue? What people say that everyone with the same skin color as Trump is racist? I'm seriously wondering. Someone in a meaningful position or something?
Don't try to read my mind/put words in my mouth.
oh come on
I want reasonable answers.
I am out.
Why do you think there was division in the 1960's? Things like Jim Crow laws perhaps? For example in WW2 the black Americans solders were welcome in France and other European nations. They were there to kill Nazis of course but they noticed white people did not separate from them. No one cared they were a different color they were all allies against Hitler. They had to go from being an equal hero to a "nigger" who has to use a separate bathroom at home. Not even human enough to shit next to. In America in 1945 a white man would say the same thing you imply now. Same thing implied when MLK marches too. Why does a nigger have to try to use the same bathroom as me? The law says separate but equal. Equal is right in the law. I think MLK is a terrorist who just hates white people. Now they say BLM just hates white people.
Going back right after the civil war when they were the same legally in theory to any white man they were not socially and economically. That is the fight still going on today. Since some people still insist that racism is impossible in American society unless someone thinks something is racist. Than they are racist to themselves.
White people who act this way as judged to be racist. These white people ironically isolate themselves and give people more reason to hate them. The very thing they think people do anyway.
Trump is a racist. If you don't see that you are either racist or dislike Democrats so much you find a sick pleasure in them getting upset.
"he's not hurting the right people" was a quote from a Fox anchor I think on his displeasure with the Trump shut down. And I see that attitude often in his voters. They want to trigger or melt a snowflake. The idea of hurting people not in your group is pretty common among racists too. Like our tribe is all that matters. It's fine and normal to treat anything else like an animal. They would kill you if they could.
Tell me that is not the wall view. White Americans would be killed by a Mexican cartel member today if there was no 2nd amendment. Republicanism does not have to be racist but the party proudly makes it so today.
Odd thing about Nazis and truly hateful people. They are often very reluctant to say they are "racist'. It's not that it is understating the animal kingdom. I don't feel anything and if you do it makes you weak. A lion is not racist it only feeds its own and dominates since it can.
I'm not sure Republicanism doesn't have to be racist, or at least fan the flames of racism and nativism, to survive. As the minority party rooted in elite privilege, it has kept itself competitive by diverting attention from class divisions by exploiting racism and nativism--shifting attention outward toward 'the other",while adopting policies that benefit the rich.
This is the kind of shit I don't prefer to engage. The racist label is over-used horribly these days. To the point that anyone you don't like can be called one (as long as they are one of the approved racist colors) for simply disagreeing with you. I fail to see how you find yourself to be so special in this regard. If you call me a racist, I will see that as unnecessarily hateful and hostile, and get other people involved.
So how about you stop with this veiled bullshit and quit trying to label me.
And I don't hate democrats, that would be stupid. It's just a political party. However, I don't care much for the Clintons. Or any other Washington crime family.
Maybe it's not just a Biden thing after all
Is this a Rorschach? What is it we're supposed to be seeing here?
So your contention is that Trump isn't racist and has never committed any racist actions?
I think it's all up to interpretation. The way the "score" seems to be kept these days is that when someone like Trump says something that can be taken all kinds of ways, "racism" is the "prize" if it can be made to stick. And it doesn't matter if it was said decades ago.
However, when someone like Robert Byrd proves to be an actual, organized, established racist, it's swept under the rug. Or anyone who asks about it is labeled as "living in the past" etc.
What really blows my mind is that anyone here would want to be seduced by one side or the other. A safer bet is to stay in the middle, but even that is under fire as anyone who doesn't should "Trump is a racist" from the rooftops, MUST also be a racist. It's also kind of foolish to hear how many people seem to think they are junior lawyers these days.
The bottom line though is that if your politics is steeped in hate, there's a deeper problem. I suggest therapy.
Interpretation. Yes indeedy. When the Trumpster launches his career by a bogus charge that our first African-American President was a racist, keeps it up even after Obama produces his birth certificate, says that the Charlottesville neo-Nazis with their Tiki torches, included some "fine people", etc. what "interpretation" do you give? And although his record goes back "decades" some of it is as recent as yesterday's tweet.
Donald Trump’s long history of racism, from the 1970s to 2019
Is Donald Trump Racist? Here's what the record shows
FACT CHECK: Was Donald Trump Never Accused of Racism Before Running Against Democrats?
Opinion | Donald Trump’s Racism: The Definitive List
Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times:
1973: The US Department of Justice — under the Nixon administration, out of all administrations — sued the Trump Management Corporation for violating the Fair Housing Act. Federal officials found evidence that Trump had refused to rent to black tenants and lied to black applicants about whether apartments were available, among other accusations. Trump said the federal government was trying to get him to rent to welfare recipients. In the aftermath, he signed an agreement in 1975 agreeing not to discriminate to renters of color without admitting to discriminating before.
1980s: Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump’s Castle, accused another one of Trump’s businesses of discrimination. “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” Brown said. “It was the eighties, I was a teenager, but I remember it: They put us all in the back.”
1988: In a commencement speech at Lehigh University, Trump spent much of his speech accusing countries like Japan of “stripping the United States of economic dignity.” This matches much of his current rhetoric on China.
1989: In a controversial case that’s been characterized as a modern-day lynching, four black teenagers and one Latino teenager — the “Central Park Five” — were accused of attacking and raping a jogger in New York City. Trump immediately took charge in the case, running an ad in local papers demanding, “BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!” The teens’ convictions were later vacated after they spent seven to 13 years in prison, and the city paid $41 million in a settlement to the teens. But Trump in October 2016 said he still believes they’re guilty, despite the DNA evidence to the contrary.
1991: A book by John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”
1992: The Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino had to pay a $200,000 fine because it transferred black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices.
1993: In congressional testimony, Trump said that some Native American reservations operating casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”
2000: In opposition to a casino proposed by the St. Regis Mohawk tribe, which he saw as a financial threat to his casinos in Atlantic City, Trump secretly ran a series of ads suggesting the tribe had a “record of criminal activity [that] is well documented.”
2004: In season two of The Apprentice, Trump fired Kevin Allen, a black contestant, for being overeducated. “You’re an unbelievably talented guy in terms of education, and you haven’t done anything,” Trump said on the show. “At some point you have to say, ‘That’s enough.’”
2005: Trump publicly pitched what was essentially The Apprentice: White People vs. Black People. He said he “wasn’t particularly happy” with the most recent season of his show, so he was considering “an idea that is fairly controversial — creating a team of successful African Americans versus a team of successful whites. Whether people like that idea or not, it is somewhat reflective of our very vicious world.”
2010: In 2010, there was a huge national controversy over the “Ground Zero Mosque” — a proposal to build a Muslim community center in Lower Manhattan, near the site of the 9/11 attacks. Trump opposed the project, calling it “insensitive,” and offered to buy out one of the investors in the project. On The Late Show With David Letterman, Trump argued, referring to Muslims, “Well, somebody’s blowing us up. Somebody’s blowing up buildings, and somebody’s doing lots of bad stuff.”
2011: Trump played a big role in pushing false rumors that Obama — the country’s first black president — was not born in the US. He even sent investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama’s birth certificate. Obama later released his birth certificate, calling Trump a ”carnival barker.” (The research has found a strong correlation between “birtherism,” as this conspiracy theory is called, and racism.) Trump has reportedly continued pushing this conspiracy theory in private.
2011: While Trump suggested that Obama wasn’t born in the US, he also argued that maybe Obama wasn’t a good enough student to have gotten into Columbia or Harvard Law School, and demanded Obama release his university transcripts. Trump claimed, “I heard he was a terrible student. Terrible. How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard
Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants “rapists” who are “bringing crime” and “bringing drugs” to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US.
As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration eventually implemented a significantly watered-down version of the policy.
When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, “I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them.”
He argued in 2016 that Judge Gonzalo Curiel — who was overseeing the Trump University lawsuit — should recuse himself from the case because of his Mexican heritage and membership in a Latino lawyers association. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who endorsed Trump, later called such comments “the textbook definition of a racist comment.”
Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.
He tweeted and later deleted an image that showed Hillary Clinton in front of a pile of money and by a Jewish Star of David that said, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” The tweet had some very obvious anti-Semitic imagery, but Trump insisted that the star was a sheriff’s badge, and said his campaign shouldn’t have deleted it.
Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) as “Pocahontas,” using her controversial — and later walked-back — claims to Native American heritage as a punchline.
At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the “law and order” candidate — an obvious dog whistle playing to white fears of black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.
In a pitch to black voters in 2016, Trump said, “You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?”
Trump stereotyped a black reporter at a press conference in February 2017. When April Ryan asked him if he plans to meet and work with the Congressional Black Caucus, he repeatedly asked her to set up the meeting — even as she insisted that she’s “just a reporter.”
In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that “many sides” and “both sides” were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters that stood against racism. He also said that there were “some very fine people” among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for “defending the truth.”
Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.
Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti “all have AIDS,” and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never “go back to their huts” once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.
Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly black countries are bad.
Trump denied making the “shithole” comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his “shithole” comments is race.
Trump mocked Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign, again calling her “Pocahontas” in a tweet before adding, “See you on the campaign TRAIL, Liz!” The capitalized “TRAIL” is seemingly a reference to the Trail of Tears — a horrific act of ethnic cleansing in the 19th century.
So don't be coy. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and goose steps like a Nazi, it could be a rooster, right?
As for Sen.Byrd, his racism did go back decades, to a time when he was Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of the KKK. But at least he publicly confessed his sins and repented. We have yet to hear that from the Donald. But "racist" is a matter of semantics. Is a person who doesn't really hate people of other races but is willing to fan the flames of racism for personal gain a racist? Or something worse?
You first. Physician heal thyself! Maybe your therapist can explain your propensity to play Pollyanna in the face of disturbing facts about Republicans and the Prez.
Thanks Okie, now I don't have to post all that stuff.
How is my opinion of you as a racist anything more than free speech? You do whatever you feel you have to do I don't care. I am not threatening you or trying to be mean. Just stating my opinion that with your politcal views are the same as racists have in this current political climate. And my opinion that denial of it is contributing to the problem. You are probably one of the latter not a true Nazi level racist.
You guys are all such followers of the political machine, I can't imagine that any of you wouldn't have been Nazis in Nazi-era Germany. And you'd have all of the major news outlets and all of the Nazi science to support you. You just follow blindly whatever is being shoved down your throats.
America basically is Nazi Germany. We slaughter people wholesale, and tell ourselves that we're the best. And you all toe the line and say, "Gee whiz, I don't think things are that bad. What are you, some kind of conspiracy theorist? MURICA!"
Exactly, so much lock-step. And they don't even realize it. And have the nerve to accuse ME of exactly what they are cheering just because they wear a different shirt. It's fucking amazing and if I wasn't positive it's just the usual agenda hugging I'd swear IQs dropped 50 points around here.
The way politics works these days is purely divisive. So when I see it infect this place, I don't get excited. I get depressed.
Since when were hippies so easily led by the nose by the establishment? It really blows my mind. And some of these folks are actually proud of their divisive position.
I wondered how long the little committee would take on this.
So you've decided to double down. The concept of free speech isn't a license to consequence-free utterances. Calling people names on this site is not acceptable behavior and you know it. The first amendment has no sway here and it only protects you from the US government.
I can say with some certainty that if you go around calling people names here, you won't be around long. But I don't think you're dumb enough to say this sort of shit about Skip, so there's a possible plus.
Otherwise, it just seems like you enjoy annoying people. I have no use for that.
I'm not beholding to either party, it's a waste of time. You just don't seem to accept that.
Separate names with a comma.