He's not gonna be saying the pledge of allegiance

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by AmericanTerrorist, May 20, 2013.

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  1. LetLovinTakeHold

    LetLovinTakeHold Cuz it will if you let it

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    It really should be the kids decision. The trouble here is that a 5 year old can't really comprehend what's going on. With my future kids, I'm not going to tell them not to pledge. But as he gets older I'll explain it to them and let them know that they don't have to.
     
  2. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    See, that's kinda why I feel weird about telling him not to. Cause then he'll be singled out by the teacher and peers as weird or something when he doesn't even have a clue why his mommy wouldn't let him do it.

    But, see... I just don't think I CAN tell him to do it. It would go so strongly against what I think of that practice and how I want him to grow up...

    That it's actually an issue that bothers me..
     
  3. Joshua Tree

    Joshua Tree Remain In Light

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    I've heard of this practice, and I agree it's pretty sickening to indoctrinate kids in this way,
    if I were in your position I wouldn't want my kid to be subjected to that, but definitely a difficult thing
    to explain to a 5 year old as it's an adult issue. Hope you find a way to work through it with him.

    Reminds me of this song

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smim2MNvF8"]Rage Against The Machine: Know Your Enemy
     
  4. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    ^^^ Yea I like RATM still and that song. :)

    Well, anyways, at least he's only 2 years old now so I have time to think on it but I'd be shocked if I can't my mind and allowed him to do it. *altho i guess he can do whatever he wants really when im not there anyways*
     
  5. skitzo child

    skitzo child PEACEFUL LIBRA

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    You cant force a kid to do anything
     
  6. daisymae

    daisymae Senior Member

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    Teach him to say

    I plead alliance to the flakes
    Of the untitled snakes of a merry cow
    And to the republicans for which they scam
    One nacho, underpants with licorice
    And jugs of wine for owls.
     
  7. acuarela

    acuarela Member

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    We had to do it every morning too, then we would sing the national anthem. I never had a problem with it and I've been thinking nationalism and patriotism are pretty stupid, since I was in school. I guess I just saw it differently.

    I think if you have a brain saying the pledge of allegiance won't turn you into an USA! USA! chanting idiot. I'm not concerned. It never made me feel proud or anything for my country, I always thought of it as the sentiment of the founding fathers. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
  8. acuarela

    acuarela Member

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    I agree, at least my kid is pretty determined when she wants to do or doesn't want to do something.

    I think it's better to talk to your kids about how you see and feel about these things, than to tell them "you won't do this or you can't do this" because then you're imposing your beliefs on them, instead of letting them do their own thing.
     
  9. deviate

    deviate Senior Member

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    They still do that there?

    I've always been an urban kid, but we stopped doing that in hmmm '95?

    And I don't really have a strong opinion on this, however, the problem is our gov't not our country. If I am at an NFL game or something where they sing the national anthem, I stand up and put my hand on my heart.

    The issue I have with people taking a principled stand about things like this, is they have no problem with things when they are getting massive tax refund checks and such. No offense, but it seems like a double standard.
     
  10. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    HOLY SHIT! That is awesome. I just said that out loud and it sounds right. And it's funny as all hell...watch me actually teach him that

    :rofl:


    Imposing my beliefs as opposed to what tho... having him do something that I consider to be wrong and (an attempt at) brain washing?
    I mean, I didn't grow up thinking "merica! merica! USA! USA!" either but... how many kids did?
     
  11. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Choosing to sing the national anthem is diff when you're an adult then forcing a bunch of 5 year olds to CHANT something...

    Idk... do they still do that? I haven't been in a regular school since 1997 so...haha i dont know but I thought they still did?

    And a massive refund check? You mean because my husband worked 4 months out of the year and received much of his money that he PAID IN back because he has two dependents that don't work...therefore we did not make enough money to have money to give away for taxes to pay for other people's stuff. That money needed to be used on this family. We don't get any government assistance in any way with our tax money... not even wic so whatever..
     
  12. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Just failing to even see how getting back a tax REFUND should have anything to do with whether or not I think my kid should pledge the flag when he gets to school. How does it correlate?

    Yay... We got a tax refund therefore Merica is the best country ever and my son should pledge to the flag to think Merica is the greatest country in the world because my parents got a tax refund....

    Just sayin. Don't make sense to me.
     
  13. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    Is it an option for you at all to keep your child out of public school? I really want to get my child into Montessori school for this reason. (well, it's one of many reasons. I want him to learn to think, not to memorize) . It's not just the pledge of allegiance - there is a LOT of indoctrination that goes on in public schools. American children are taught from first grade and on that America is the greatest and the most free country in the world. This is why so many Americans have trouble understanding that other countries can do things differently and still enjoy the freedoms we enjoy and then some.

    I want my child to be curious and respectful of other cultures and I really don't think public school will be a good fit for the way I want to raise him.
     
  14. deviate

    deviate Senior Member

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    I don't sing it, but I don't make myself the odd man out by remaining seated. I would do the same in any country. Kind of like when in Rome..

    Personally, I think there are a lot of things we could (or should) change or influence on a small scale that would make things better on a large scale. And I don't think this is one of them, it's not that big of a deal more just tradition.
     
  15. deviate

    deviate Senior Member

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    Just how you compared that to n. korea or nazi germany. Do you think they get or got money back for dependents?

    This place is fucked but it is still one of the best places to be, overall.

    And if you compared the cops or many of the federal agencies to something like n. korea or nazi germany I would agree. But saying the pledge? I just find that unimportant.
     
  16. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    I'm not sure and I've been trying to figure that out lately. I know for MANY reasons I don't want Case to go to public school (if you look in the homeschooling forum I posted about it the other day... ) for the reason you mentioned as well as other reasons. For ex- the school district that we're in now, where I went to jr high at... yrs later, when I was outta school, a 13 yr old boy shot and killed the principal and then himself in the cafeteria in front of half the school.
    Also, I experienced and saw a lot of bullying and just general negativity that I don't want my (sweet, sensitive, loving....) boy to experience.
    And I def want him to be able to be a free thinker!
    I know I have A LOT of research and planning to do in the next cpl yrs to figure out what to do for schooling for him!
     
  17. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Well, the cops too.. yeah :D Fuck them.

    But also I wasn't comparing the whole country to those places or time periods... but the pledge seems really creepy and nationalistic like that. And it does seem like something they'd do in North Korea. Change the faces and the words to a bunch of 5 yr olds there and I can totally see it and it gives me chills. I KNOW the us is not like n.korea in many ways but that way...


    And, btw, as to something you said in your other post- IS it just tradition though or is it something more sinister? Like brainwashing and conditioning at a very young age to get the type of citizens the gov. wants?
     
  18. deviate

    deviate Senior Member

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    I don't have children, but when I do I don't want to send them to public school. Although, part of the reason I bought my house where I did is because it's the best public school district in FL. I'm hoping my wife wants to home school, that or private school.

    Mad respect to you two for dealing with those kind of decisions. I don't feel ready.
     
  19. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Shit. I don't feel ready. It's gonna be so soon!

    But don't matter if I'm ready or not. I'm seriously considering homeschooling or a private school. But I talked to D about homeschooling this w.end and he thinks it's a good idea if I wanna do it. I know I'd have to make sure he gets social interactions and all but I could handle that and have him having much better interactions then at public school around the narrow minded clowns around here... learning to be like everyone else... be the same and bully or be bullied. I have a terrible opinion of public schools. I really think I am leaning towards home schooling but I gotta learn a lot more.. so, yea, IF he goes to school school THEN he won't say the pledge.
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    It is nationalistic indoctrination.it may be relatively unimportant compared to other issues in the world but it helps set the stage for a nation afraid to question things, including the larger issues. When I was in school the kids that didn't say the pledge were singled out and made to feel like outcasts. it kinda helps teach a herd mentality.
     
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