Alsharad So you believe in hell.. Occam asks. Will occam go to your hell? Or will you be so gracious as to exclude 'non-believers' from your fantasy? If you cant do so.. then occam must tell you that he is booked solid to going to hell from his own sister down to a hundred others more. This would be funny is it wasnt so psychotic. Occam
Are you doubtiing the word of the bible? It clearly states that a soul shall dwell in hell if in this life you have sinned. The devil is a real entity in the bible and therefore must have physical location in which to reside That is for god to decide The word hell BTW derives from norse and germanic languages and predates Dante by many centuries, so do its concepts
Non sentient Always.. The bible is no more valid as 'the word of god' than 'the house at pooh corner' Occam
I believe I asked alsharad that question as nothing you have said actually disputes the bible I agree pooh corner validates god just as well
If it says there is a hell.as an existant state.Then occam disputes such garbage thinking for what it is. No mater what the source Occam
This is not relevant. Your argument was basically based on the absurdity of hell existing, not on who would or wouldn't go there. You still hold this position even though I have given you an alternate view of hell that is not subject to your arguments. How do you respond to that? Also, you have not responded to my position that you have improperly applied the law of parsimony to this issue. We can make unsupported assertions back and forth all day and come no closer to unearthing truth. So, what can you produce that supports the assertion that the idea of hell is "garbage thinking." How do you define "garbage thinking"? For the record, the biblical model of salvation is this: 1) Recognition that God exists. 2) Recognition that we are too evil to fellowship with God. 3) Recognition that there is nothing we can do to be reconciled to God. 4) Trust that God will make a way for us to be reconciled to Him. So you might not be a "bible-believing Christian", but still enter heaven (just like Moses, Abraham, etc.). Christ is the way that God reconciles us (no one comes to the Father but through Christ). Any religion that teaches that we can earn heaven or be found worthy of heaven by our actions is teaching a false salvation. A real entity needs a real location, yes, but a non-physical entity like the devil wouldn't require a physical location. A relational hell is just as real for a non-physical being as a physical one. And the concepts of "dwelling in hell" doesn't necessarily imply a physical hell. Even now we speak of being "in love", "in despair", saying something "in wrath". We use words of location to describe an emotional or relational state. So to dwell in hell could just as easily mean living in a state of hell. I would argue that it is more likely, in fact.
In Luke chapter 16 verses 19 threw 31 Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell. Remember, the Bible is more big on discriptions than names. Thats why we have three hundred descriptions of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, but you will never see His name there.
How can you say that you dont believe in hell, if merely by asking that question you act as though hell exists. Your beliefs do not tie in with your actions and as we all know, actions speak louder than words Hence the the explative "JEEEEEEZUUUSSSS CHARRRRIIIIIIST"!!
Out of curiosity and complete boredom on a staturday night: What does the H mean in Jesus H Christ? Hell begins with H
Give an observable phenomenological varification for the existance of hell. Cant? .. why is occam not surprised? Funny enough, occam can give you one for the existance of 'a' god. Irony of ironies, that verification is evolution. This is how occam knows that fundamentalist christians engage in garbage thinking. They have been trying to prove that 'a' god exists by actively trying to disprove the one major piece of evidence that proves 'a' god exists. Occam
Those are 3 big words that are beyond me. 4 letter ones seem easier for me to understand Like..ummm..Hell
Do the same for logic. The law of parsimony. Love. Hate. Beauty. Mathematics. Your requirements are arbitrary. If hell is not a physical place, but is a state of relationship, then there will be no observable phenomenological varification and to expect it is illogical and is as irrational as expecting something to come from nothing. Please justify your expectation of observable phenomenological varification. I am not what you would call a "fundamentalist". Further, this is entire paragraph is just an ad hominem attack. Even if I have engaged in "garbage thinking" (which you still have not defined) in the past, you have yet to show that I am engaging in it now.
Well occam you might consider the experience that Professor Howard Storm had. He was a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, also an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion. Check the links below. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/storm01.html http://www.near-death.com/storm.html
Campbell No.. The experience he 'SAID HE HAD' As law enforcement officers know. humans do nothing without motivation. Howard storm had a motivation. what was it. Well, you quote him, in a post. If he did not have his 'revelation' you would not quote him. You, are the tool he uses to spread his 'knowing' Can he show, as say einstein could show, that his belief was fact.? No It's his story ANy witnesses?..no Any abillity to repeat situation..no Any true reason to believe this man in his known rage against his life position. He simply decided to join those who he raged against, and make a packet. He chose to join the money makers. The users. He is nothing. Occam
Well I'm not here to make any money, but on april 24,1968 I accidentally got caught on a 7,400 volt eletrical line. And I can recall seeing to different views of what was going on. I was laying on the ground face down and a neighbor woman was looking down on me and asking those around if I were dead. What I found interesting was even though I was unconscious, I found myself looking right into her face, even though I was face down. What I learned that day was even thought you are physically unconscious, there appears to be another part of your being that is alive and well. Which operates outside of the biological relm. I would not like to repeat this experiment considering I spent seven weeks in the hosiptal recovering from it, yet it did show me another side of life few get to experience. Now some would say the question of heaven and hell are still up in the air, but I can tell you first hand that there is a life beyond the physical. And I believe where you will spend that life, can be understood by a close study of the Scriptures.
campbell Can you prove this? NO? Then join the club of people who cant prove what they subjectively experience. It aint fair but then again Life never said it was Fairness is purely a subjective desire. The dinosaurs know all about it. BOOOOOOOOOM,, no more dinosaurs.. try again Occam
Just like in a court of law, given enought witnesses a jury will finally make a decision. There is new evidence that is coming in that at the very least proves that some of the stories of the Bible actually did happen. Yet the Bible tells us that the time would come when many would rather believe a lie than the truth. So you see even if the Bible can be proven to be true, there are few out there who would take the time to consider that proof. I find there are many more working to ignore that proof, or trying very hard to dismiss it.
campbell True Enough witnesses and a 'decision' is reached. Are those witnesses impartial logical beings? Look at our legal system. How many are imprisoned that did nothing but be in the wrong place at the wrong time. MANY have been executed that were later found to be innocent. This is recorded 'fact' Witnesses cant be wrong.? then why did these innocents die? The bible is the same. wake up Occam
I would agree, when you are talking about a handfull of witnesses mistakes will be made, yet when you are talking about hundreds of witnesses all with simular stories, one should at the very least consider what is being said.
Campbell You in your electrocution. [ say 20 max] And howard storm in his NDE..[one, max] Had hundreds of witnesses.? lol Occam
