Health risks associated with MXE

Yes, that is the name of the documentary, "The Botany of Desire", and if you are correct about those four plants. If you recall, however, the evolution of marijuana is one that has followed the evolution of mankind; it's a matter of worldwide social perspective that's changed the general world view on marijuana, in fact rooted directly here in America to begin with, one that started with racism essentially toward African Americans & Latinos. Your argument that concerns the demeaning views of marijauna actually feeds directly into the point that I was making as my ADHD addled brain meandered off on a tangent. That the world is so divisively harsh on marijauna & its users & advocates surely does harm society & puts INNOCENT people behind bars (or worse, depending on where you are globally) for ridiculous laws against something that consenting adults should be able to make up their own minds about. IMO, those same people behind bars are not breaking laws that should even be in place, so I would never call myself for instance a criminal; the cops would, maybe you would, but I wouldn't. It's that social climate of bigotry, hatred, fear, & beliefs in the propaganda that fuels the social harm brought about indirectly, not directly, by marijuana by & large. That is my stance, & one I will stand firmly on regardless of anything. I'm a huge NORML supporter, an open marijauna advocate, & sure it may cause to one degree or another in some users some forms of social withdrawal, anxiety, or moodiness, I am not exempt from that even. But for the most part, it relaxes me, & like pointed out in "The Botany of Desire," it also assists me with forgetting about the troubles I encounter in life, which if you recall, is one of the main points that documentary brought to light about the biochemical responses it brings on in users (which if you also recall, is one of the major reasons it's remained so popular for so many centuries, & perhaps millenia). That very response is one of the most signifcant reasons my shrink wrote me a medical marijauna recommendation for my PTSD when I lived in Oakland. What I'm getting at here is that its a social ILL that is the general view on marijauna, one that I'll fight until the day I die. I do not believe it to be a "socially harmful" substance, but rather a society that's Puritanical by nature whose views have been shoved down virtually every other sovereign nation's throats, & therefore it's the view that's harmful IMO.

My question to both you porkstock, & you guerrillabedlam, since this topic has lit on fire, is this: Where do either of you stand on the issue of its legality? Are you advocates for legality & tolerance, or are you guys for the continued vilification of the drug (not to even touch on the topic of other drugs)?

I'm a little confused as to why you would argue against something that I would assume that either of you are to one extent or another proponents of (less toward you guerrillabedlam, since you at least admitted both that all you cared about was that it's below alcohol & tobacco, which as you pointed out are quite clearly legal & more damaging, and that you wished you had some weed when I tried to settle this matter yesterday by agreeing to smoke out at 2PM CST, which I gladly did for the both of us).

I really am curious, but mostly where you stand porkstock. Are you for, against, or indifferent towards the social climate concerning American but also global marijuana laws?

 

LOL you are pretty much asking a loaded question there cosmo...I am for pot being legalized, I am starting to get a more centered view on the issue though and feel that its a drug that is certainly not harmless. Since you brought up that I brought up alcohol & tobacco eventhough you said in your question 'other drugs aside' I do think alcohol's effects have potential to be much more harmful overall but I think some potheads have a fairly skewed and narrow view of the big picture when discussing the issue or comparing them as well.

 

Oh, believe me, I know I opened a can of worms asking that loaded question, it certainly has many angles to consider. But I simply believe for the greater good, it's not something to vilify nor to keep criminalized. I admitted as much that certainly, even where my use is concerned, it occasionally (depending upon how heavily I'm using or not) causes paranoia, anxiety, social withdrawal, & moodiness (for me those times tend to occur either when I'm using it much less than other times or when I have distinct stressors factoring into my life's situation whereas when I use it more heavily & am free of significant stressors, I tend to just mellow out & forget about life's petty troubles).

I only said 'not to even mention other drugs' because this topic has been mainly (for the past several passages) been focused on weed & not on other drugs. My views on other drugs & their dangers are quite different where that's concerned, however, even where heroin, hydrocodone, cocaine, ketamine, MDMA, methylphenidate, clonazepam, et al are concerned, I truly believe in universal legalization with regulation, much the way that the medical marijuana situation works in California or how pharmacias work in the majority of the Carribean Islands or Latin America; I believe that you should be able to walk into a place designated as a zone for the sale of narcotic substances, that you should be able to purchase them there, take them to your home or designated clubs much like how bars currently function (NOT your car or ANY place where use would be a hazardous endeavor) & that there you should be able to use your substance of choice at will & to your own discretion. That would decriminalize the substances, therefore keeping people out of jail, it would bring the prices down considerably, & whether or not you were responsible with your usage or not, whether or not you ended up OD'ing--which with full unilateral legalization I believe that even OD'ing would go down within a drug tolerant society because within a system built on tolerance as such, the warnings would be abundant about how & how not to use a drug so as not to kill yourself or harm yourself or others in whatever way, thus leading to fewer hospitalizations & deaths--it would be a personal choice made one way or the other, & it would all be on you. Currently that's how alcohol & tobacco are mandated, & though there are plenty of deaths & hospitalizations from those two, I believe there would be a WHOLE lot more if the two were illegal.

But you're right, a lot of potheads do have skewed views on things, & perhaps I even do, but they're my views & I'm sticking by them

 

Lol well then why bother asking the question if your minds made up, just to see where others stand?

I dunno what happened in Amsterdam but the all inclusive drug legalization there sure went south rather quickly.

 

LOL, I can see why you'd ask that question, it's a good one to ask. I ask it to see where others stand, but also to see other perspectives, other opinions, but also, & probably most significantly, to gain further perspective & even to have my own views challenged. I'm certainly resolute, but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy a good debate & listening to other people's ideas. That's what makes the world go 'round, diversity. If we all thought the same it would be a damned boring world man. Damned boring. And see, though my mind may be made up, there are always the occasional monkeywrenches thrown in there that really get me thinking & sometimes tweak--not change but tweak--my perspective; that's healthy I think because it keeps me on my toes, I learn new things, & I sometimes incorporate some of those very ideas into my own world view.

Hell, within this debate (if you want to call it that) I've taken away some nuggets from you in fact. I doubt that I'd have really been so critical toward the facts of marijauna's capability to cause social withdrawal, paranoia & the like had I not been so enthusiatically engaged in this discussion.

In other words, I'm rigid, I'm just firm. My mind may not change on a topic significantly, but it certainly can & will be broadened in perspective by listening to others.

It's good to have a defined perspective, but it's better to be open to alteration of said perspective by way of taking in & absorbing the thoughts & ideas of others IMO. This is not an isolated incident in which you've shed some light where I may not have looked of my own volition.

Sigh... where Amsterdam is concerned, that's a sad state of affairs. It's just as bad as when Switzerland closed "Needle Park" IMO; closing the marijauna market to vacationers recently & banning so many substances from headshops over the past few years like methylone, mephedrone, 2C-B, or 2C-T-7 is just sad, sad shit.

 

cosmo, cosmo, cosmo, you're kinda preachin' to the choir here.

after being here for a year, i can't believe you even have to ask me that question. of course i think pot should be legal. of course i think it's ridiculous that our society makes pot smokers into criminals, but that IS the current state of things. that's all i was saying. maybe that played into this study, ranking weed higher on the scale because of that social issue. pointing out a flaw in the study, if you want to call it that.
i smoke weed every day if you didn't know

also, all four of the plants in that documentary co-evolved with humans. that was the point of the movie. i can see how you might think that the co-evolution of cannabis might have been a little more complex (due to the social issues we talked about - imagine if apples were fuckin' illegal...dude got busted with 5 bushels!)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7q1jZhuGJk"]YouTube - Fairly odd Parents - Cosmo had a Idea

 

LOL! I was just sort of kidding with you man, it was sort of a rhetorical question... perhaps a bit too dry? The only thing was that since I know you smoke out a lot (I didn't know every day) I suppose that you confused me since your comment seemed to contradict your personal use, but then I probably read you wrong. Other than that, I knew your stance, I was just being a kidder

That is precisely why of those 4 that I fingered that one out specifically, because it's got that complex social issue to it. LMFAO! Dude got busted with 5 bushels!!! That's some funny shit yo!

LOL! I had an idea'r eh? Fuckin' funny shit, hahaha!!!!!

 

:tongue:

 

holy cripe wat have they done to your thread GM? it took me like 3 hrs to read through the whole lot, tho i'm wrapped in cotton so that wont be helping..

i'm in the same boat with mxe tho, been through an amount of the stuff since discovering it, one of my friends who consumed several large doses with me says that everytime he has anything now, it feels like mxe. (anything being other drugs) though to me this seems like a wild statement, he is thoroughly convinced of it. i feel it gives me a wonderfull mood lift that prevails throughout my existance for days after use. though, that point makes me wonder is this material damaging the parts of my brain responsible for this feeling without drugs, in effect rendering me a mind numbed zombie?

well, considering this was simply a product of rational drug design, GM i think we are the guinea pigs. as much as one searches theres no medical data or trials info to speak of, unless someone has found something i havent?

after all, subjective as it might be in this cicumstance, there is no fate but the choices we make.

 

we know that molecules can be vastly different in effect profile from minor changes in structural design shulgin has truly brought this to light for the masses, and in saying so, what longterm effects will MXE have? we need an expert in pharmacodynamics...

 

Well, I can say that daily short term use (nasal and IM) has no obvious ill effects except that I can confirm that mxe does cause opiate like withdrawal symptoms.

 

Hard to differentiate as I was using other drugs in the timeframe I used Mxe but from what I could tell:

Many side effects similar to Ketamine: Mental fixation, irritability, listlessness, suicidal ideation, perhaps delusions.
Differences from Ketamine: I got some unpleasant headaches for ~week after occasionally, cold sweats coming directly off it.

I tended to dose higher than many but I only used it for a couple months as well so it definitely can effect a person quickly.

 

It's definitely addictive. Not really moreish. I rarely redosed unless I dosed in the morning then I may dose again in the evening. But I did end up using it everyday for a little while. 40-50mg IM before work was awesome.

I never felt delusional or anything like you described. GB. You had those effects after usage or while high?

 

I was referring to coming down and the day(s) after. An incident that comes to mind that I know is solely from mxe is one morning after using I walked on this elevated platform and look through this linked fence that overlooked the freeway. There was this oscillating sound like a super annoying version of nitrous and as the cars passed it would 'swooosh' in pitch and shit and I got so fucking agitated that noise wouldn't stop. I understood how people can lose their shit on pcp.

I had some really significant delusions and hallucinations more recently after using mxe as well that are still ingrained in my head and I'm not comfortable with, but bath salts and hallucinogens were also involved in that time frame so we know bath salts at least have also been known to cause delusions, so I split the blame on mxe and bath salts, maybe exacerbated with the hallucinogens.

*We can say my own stupidity to save the 'don't blame the drugs' lecture.

 

I've had some wonky effects from MDPV 'Bath Salt' and seen other people just go psychotic. I haven't tried Meph yet.

 

i will say meph when top quality pure is hard to beat. to me it's the best euphoric-stim-empathogen i've ever experienced. at least that first hour an a half or so after each line. leaves MDMA in the dust IMO :sunny:

 

I've heard it's like being blasted off in a rocketship . . . wish I was interested in it back in the day Now that I'm finally curious to sample it it's 10 times more expensive and hard to get.

 

Mephedrone was a guilty pleasure, it felt absolutely wonderful and devious at the same time but it was basically a meth bomb with less side effects.

MDMA can change lives, mephedrone is simple fun.

*Actually I take that back about the side effects, the one night I went through a gram of mephedrone I had the worst stimulant hangover I've ever had at the time, that was before I met monkey dust.

 

After about 5 days of use I've noticed a constant headache after no use today. It's not enough to even bother me though. Just mild all around ache. Hopefully it doesn't cause brain atrophy.