Hate vs Love

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by TrippinBTM, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    How is it that love conquers all? I mean, if some dude is trying to hurt me, do I want a hug or a gun for a weapon? Should we stop shooting terrorists and insurgent-types and try winning with love? If everyone became peace loving hippie types, or christian types even, and loved our neighbor and enemy and all that happy jazz, destroyed our weapons...all it would take is one guy who wanted power and control and we'd be his slaves.

    So how does this work, exactly? I mean, I understand if everyone started meditating/looking inward and started seeing how everything in the world is connected, you could maybe get some enlightened people who will see that to love your enemy is to love yourself and vice versa...but that's likely to never happen and isn't really practical (sadly enough).
     
  2. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    There was a fierce warlord who ruled the countryside with ruthless violence, killing all who opposed him, and taking whatever he pleased wherever he went.
    One of the villages heard he and his followers were ravaging the areas nearby and was headed for their village. The whole village grabbed what they could carry, and headed for the hills, fearing for their lives.
    One monk, the most wise and elderly one, said he would stay behind in the temple. Everyone thought him crazy and that he would be killed for sure.
    The warlord entered the village and soon found the sole remaining inhabitant, and was affronted by his audacity to have not fled.
    He said to the monk, " Don't you know who I am. I am the man that could run you through with this sword without blinking an eye!"
    The monk was not at all affected by this, and replied to him, " Don't you know who I am? I am the man that you could run through with your sword, and I would not blink an eye."
    The warlord was so awed by this monk's response that he gave up his old ways and stayed as a student of the monk from then on.
     
  3. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    Love conquers hate, always. Yes. This is true. However ...

    Some people, like terrorists, simply have a raw, almost untapped supply of hate, and since the rest of us are unwilling to share love for fear that our own emotional states will be harmed, there is nowhere near enough love to "go around."

    Love hurts wherever hate is present. Hate is present everywhere throughout this world. Thus, love hurts; and it's just another incentive not to love.

    It's self-defeating.

    This is why we stockpile weapons: because hate will never be eliminated from this world. At least, not in any of our lifetimes. Probably not even if we are cryogenically frozen for a few thousand years ...
     
  4. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    Well you're a real optimist. how about this scenario....our entry into the new age of Aquarius enlightens us and we eliminate hate, close all the prisons, and all respect each others faiths as equally true and valid. There is no more crime, and earth is once again a paradise.

    I feel that is equally likely, so lets hope that is what happens.
     
  5. Archemetis

    Archemetis Senior Member

    hate isnt loves enemy, but rather indifference.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Different people are at different evolutionary stages.

    This must be considered when dealing with others in this world.

    So, just because you extend love and compassion to others does not mean that you let them rape and pillage your self or your community.

    Just as a misbehaving child must be corrected, so to a misbehaving adult.
     
  7. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    Indeed ... I am quite the pessimist, but I hardly think that I do not have my reasons ... I hate always being so pessimistic, but any time that I try to be optimistic, something happens that throws me back into the pessimist mindset and makes me very wry and cynical.

    That's not to say I think that the human race is just going to kill itself in the end, or that utopia isn't possible ... but it's going to be a VERY long time before real progress is made ... that's my opinion at least.
     
  8. BlackGuardXIII

    BlackGuardXIII fera festiva

    I have a hunch it won't be as long as you think. What if the slate was wiped clean somehow.....and very few people were left alive to start over, in, say, 7 years or so. In that case, we have a golden opportunity for some real progress in the very near future.

    I hate always being so pessimistic Now that is classic.
     
  9. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    Perhaps, unless it happens to be either a nuclear fallout kind of thing, or a bush administration kind of thing. He'd make sure every inch of the Earth is covered in napalm. >=|

    See what I mean? =\ I'm seriously not even trying to make things like that up. It really sucks, but I can't seem to do anything about it.
     
  10. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    I still don't know about this 2012 thing...seems like just another doomsday thing, a year is picked for some obscure reason, the day approaches, people get hyper, kill themselves, baptize themselves, build churches, the day comes and passes, nothing happens, a new date is picked with a new rationale for why the date was wrong....ad infinitum.

    It'd be great if something wonderful happens in the near future. People say there's all kinds of signs and prophesies coming true...but then, isn't that always the case?
     
  11. hippin life

    hippin life Member

    it is better to love than hate cause hate locks us into our own views and doesn't allow change. its unfortunate about the middle east, but we (ww2 allies) brought it on. we took away lands and made a country where we had no right to interviene. prior to that the mid east had no problems with us (as far as i know). the point is we started something and now are paying for it. the U.S. should finish up in iraq then leave the rest of the mid east alone.
     
  12. Sebbi

    Sebbi Senior Member

    I love that one BlackGuard.


    Just a point though, that's from the Zen Mondo - A samurai is very skeptical of Hakuin and warns him that "I am the man that can run you through without blinking an eye."

    Hakuin is unfazed "I am the man you could run through without blinking an eye."

    Impressed the Samurai stayed for the teaching.

    Blessings

    Sebbi
     
  13. Hikaru Zero

    Hikaru Zero Sylvan Paladin

    Sebbi:

    It either takes a world's sum of guts and stupidity, or a world's sum of guts and brains, to say that and actually mean it. I don't know if that samurai warlord / monk story is actually true, but the only person I can see saying that is Ghandi, and Ghandi's already been run through, in a sense.

    Most human beings are complete cowards; some of us are not complete cowards, but we all have cowardice to a varying degree. When any of us reaches Ghandi's state of mind, then we will have eliminated all cowardice from our hearts, and only then, when we have a world filled with Ghandis, will perfect peace on Earth be possible, in my opinion.
     
  14. Sebbi

    Sebbi Senior Member

    Very true, I think the Zen Mondo version of the story is partly to demonstrate what Hakuin (in my mind) is famous for - his complete lack of fear of death.


    Much of his wisdom is about the nature of death and most of his stories tend to be about samurais who come to him realising that they could very likely die the next day asking "What the Hell comes next?"

    Blessings

    Sebbi
     
  15. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    I don't know if love conquers hate in the sense you mean. But true all encompassing love would mean loving the entire universe wholeheartedly, the way you love yourself, not considering anyone else to be different from you, such uiting love is true love. When you develop that, it conquers hate. How? Even if a terrorist comes and cuts your arm off, you still have love only. He cuts your leg off. Still love. Don't see him different from you. Give even your life with pleasure for another, such is true love.

    Sri Adi Shankaracharya once met a tribal who wanted to cut his head for sacrifice. He warned that his disciples were coming, so he begged that the deed be done quickly, lest the disciples come and stop the sacrifice. Seeing his tremendous love and compassion, the tribal surrendered at his feet. Thus spreads love.

    If nothing else, love is an end in itself. It does not ask or expect anything, to love is to love, is to rejoice. Even if one harms you, the gain or satisfacion he gets form that is your satisfaction. To love thus is to be free from all sorrow or longing. The hate of the entire universe does not affect you, but your love spreads and encompasses everything in blissful union, the joy of the cosmos is yours, you transcend human limitations and become love itself, joy embodied.
     
  16. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    Maybe I'm just in too cynical a mood lately, but if a man said he wanted to kill me, and I said something like what that guy said, he'd think I'm crazy and probably do it anyways. People these days are too selfish, tribal people recognize humanity when they see it, moderns see nothing but personal interest.
     
  17. Bhaskar

    Bhaskar Members

    The difeence between your saying it and Adi Shankara sayingit, is that he meant it. I suspect you would be saying it hoping that the guy would be touched and let you go. It doest work that way.
     
  18. mynameiskc

    mynameiskc way to go noogs!

    i think hate is just another natural process that helps to keep the life and death machine going. i don't think hate is evil. in fact, i kinda have a hard time believing in evil, since it serves a valid (though unattractive) purpose. therefore, i don't think there will be an end to hate until theres an end to this current incarnation of the physical world.
     

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