hare krishna

Everything you need is in Prabupada's books. He didn't disappear, he is with us in form of his books. Haribol, dear jivas!

 

lol

There are many gods that dance, to say that yours is the only one (other than to say that the others are actually the same one but represented differently) would be ignorance.

To be frank I think Nietzche was saying that if there was a god (that's IF) then it would have to be one that brings fun. I find it hard to believe that Nietzche was someone who chanted Hare Krishna.

Blessings

Sebbi

 

There is only one God, he has many incarnations. Nietzche didn't chant Hare Krishna but he got there intelectually, that's why he became frustrated. Indeed if you read Thus Spoke Zarathustra it is very similar to Prabhupada's books. We should not see the forms -that's what he's saying. Nietzche said: "I could be the Budha of Europe." Lord Budha, according to Vedic scriptures was Krishna himself, who came into this world in order to lure all mayavadis, impersonalists and stop animal slaughter. It was a little game of Lord Krishna. Nietzche similary played this game, but actually he was a devotee of Krishna.

Krishna is God, who is fun -trust me. lol. You can read that in a book called Krishna by Srila Prabhupada.


Check out this article:


Nietzsche - additional info

Bh. Tod Desmond

Nietzsche was in fact a devotee of Krsna. He once said "I could be the Buddha of Europe." Like Buddha, Nietzsche too merely pretended to be an atheist. He lied for Krsna. In the second to last section of Beyond Good and Evil, #295, Nietzsche describes his secret God, code named Dionysus, as the pied piper in everyone's heart, the philosopher great with a disciplic succession. This is Krsna, about whom Nietzsche was not only well aware, but quite in love with.

Nietzsche was a devotee of Krsna using in the West the same strategy Buddha used in the East. (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.24: "Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Anjana, in the province of Gaya, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist.") In Beyond Good and Evil #40 he said, "Whatever is profound loves masks; ... Might nothing less than the opposite be the proper disguise for the shame of a god?"

In the Gay Science #106 he had a disciple say to his master: "But I believe in your cause and consider it so strong that I shall say everything, everything that I still have in my mind against it."

The innovator laughed in his heart and wagged a finger at him. "This kind of discipleship," he said, "is best; but it is also the most dangerous, and not every kind of doctrine can endure it."

Just two aphorisms later, at a very significant #108, Nietzsche dropped his most famous line:

After Buddha was dead, his shadow was still shown for centuries in a cave - a tremendous, gruesome shadow. God is dead; but given the ways of men, there may still be caves for thousands of years in which his shadow will be shown.

It was no accident that Nietzsche said God is dead and combined that statement with Buddha and the most sacred Vedic number, 108. Nietzsche knew exactly what Buddha did, and he was following the same strategy, as evidence by GS #106 cited above. About God's shadow being in a cave and Buddha's, let us hear what else Nietzsche said about caves. "Does not one write books precisely to conceal what one harbors? Indeed, he will doubt... whether behind every one of his caves there is not, must not be, another deeper cave. ... Every philosophy also conceals a philosophy; every opinion is also a hideout, every word also a mask. (Beyond Good and Evil #289)

This recalls us to the early quote, BGE #40, when Nietzsche said profound things love masks, and precisely the opposite would be the mask of a god. Did Nietzsche really play the Buddha game? He said himself, "I could become the Buddha of Europe." (KSA 10, 4[2]) He also said, "The strange family resemblance of all Indian, Greek, and German philosophizing is explained easily enough, where there is affinity of languages, it cannot fail, ... everything is prepared at the outset for a similar development and sequence of philosophical systems. (BGE#20) In the second to last section of Beyond Good and Evil, #295, in which Nietzsche plainly describes his God, and plainly admits he is using a secret code name, Dionysus, a.k.a Krsna:

The genius of the heart, as that great concealed one possesses it, the tempter god and born pied piper of consciences whose voice knows how to descend into the netherworld of every soul, ... Of whom am I speaking to you? ... no less a one than the god Dionysus, that great ambiguous one and tempter god to whom I once offered, as you know, in all secrecy and reverence, my first-born ... for I have found no one who understood what I was doing then.

Meanwhile I have learned much, all too much, more about the philosophy of this god, and, as I said, from mouth to mouth - I, the last great disciple and initiate of the god Dionysus - and I suppose I might begin at long last to offer you, my friends, a few tastes of this philosophy, insofar as it is permitted me? In an undertone, as is fair, for it concerns much that is secret, new, strange, odd, uncanny.

Even that Dionysus is a philosopher, and that gods, too, thus do philosophy, seems to me to be a novelty that is far from innocuous and might arouse suspicion precisely among philosophers. ... For today, as I have been told, you no longer like to believe in God and gods. Perhaps I shall also have to carry frankness further in my tale than will always be pleasing to the strict habit of your ears? Certainly the god in question went further, very much further, in dialogues of this sort and was always many steps ahead of me."

Nietzsche's God, code named Dionysus, is a genius in the heart of every soul, a pied piper (or flute player), and a master at the art of philosophical dialogue, a philosophy, moreover, that is handed down from master to disciple "from mouth to mouth." Other than Socrates (whom some people claim Nietzsche is secretly describing), the only other philosophical dialogues worthy of discussing are the Vedas. And so we turn to the most famous of all, the Bhagavad-gita, in which Krsna affirms: "I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedanta, and I am the knower of the Vedas."

Nietzsche also said "I could only believe in a God who could dance." This too is Krsna. Nietzsche was clearly a devotee of Krsna, the king of the atheists was in fact a great devotee of God. If we can prove this to people we will win a great victory for Lord Krsna and all his devotees.

If anyone wants more information I have plenty of quotes to back up the fact that Nietzsche was indeed a devotee of Krsna playing the Buddha pastime. For example, in Thus Spoke Zarathustra, the "old Pope" told Zarathustra, "You are more pious than you know. Some god in you must have converted you to your godlessness." In the Dawn #96 Nietzsche said: "However much progress Europe may have made in other respects, in religious matters it has not you attained to the free-minded naivete of the ancient Brahmins: a sign that there was more thinking, and that more pleasure in thinking was customarily inherited, four thousand years ago in India than is the case today." In the Dawn #113 he said, "The Brahmins give expression to this ... I believe in this whole species of inner experience we are now incompetent novices groping after the solution of riddles: they knew more about these infamous refinements of self-enjoyment 4,000 years ago." Using Sanskrit terms in this next aphorism, Nietzsche admits he is trying to be hard to understand, though the fact that he says his soul "flows like the Ganges" is a big clue:

"It is hard to be understood, especially when one thinks and lives gangasrotagati [as the current of the Ganges flows] among men who think and live differently - namely, kurmagati [as the tortoise moves], or at best 'the way frogs walk,' mandukagati. (I obviously do everything to be 'hard to understand' my self!) - and one should be cordially grateful for the good will to some subtlety of interpretation. (Beyond Good and Evil #27)

Nietzsche on God

Synthesis of Science and Religion
Critical Essays and Dialogues
Papers presented at the World Congress for the Synthesis of Science and
Religion, Jan. 9-12, 1986, Bombay


(c) 1987 Bhaktivedanta Institute

Section Seven, Essay three, p.398:
William Deadwyler (Ravindra Svarupa Dasa):

...sometimes critics of some established notion of divinity should be understood as not denying God or the divine as such but merely a particular, faulty conception of God. I agree. Socrates, for instance, was accused of atheism. But his "atheism" was really a symptom of his higher realization of God. People sometimes mistakenly think even of themselves as atheists when at heart they are not. People have told me "I don't believe in God", and when they explained to me what they meant by "God", I could truthfully say to them "Well, I don't believe in the same God you don't believe in."

Nietzsche, the great evangelist of the dead God, was not, in my understanding, a true atheist. For he once remarked, "I should be able to believe in a God who could dance". As a believer in Krishna, who is known as Nataraja, the great dancer, I see that Nietzsche's faith was unfulfilled and frustrated by the idea of divinity available to him. But unfulfilled faith is not atheism.

 

amused at the linkage between Dionysius, a wild psychedelic ecstatic tantric cult of ancient europe and Krishna bhakti...the bauls of bengal also made the same connection...it should be noted though that S. P. had little tolerance for left handed paths although many Krishna Bhakti cults have tantricism...revisionism knows no bounds

sleeping jiva, for one who claims everything is in srila prabhupada's books, you have sure pulled in one far deep in left field...far away from prabhupada's books

anyways, as a Dionysian and Baul, i encourage such linkage as steps in the discovery of the universality of all paths

ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma

 

it is Shiva who is known as Nataraja...similarities between Saivites and Dionystic cults in ecstatic drug induced states, tantric practices...

Om namah Shivaya

 

Wow. I leave for a couple of days and you guys go post happy! lol. I did read almost all of the posts from this weekend. They were very interesting...though I do not understand all of them, they are very interesting...I am still learning.

Btw, of course God can dance! God is loving and forgiving and joyous...I do not really like the idea that God punishes (another misconception of Christian religion right there...)...because that's not the way it is...and that is what turns people away. The idea that they are damned...but they're not....hmmm....just a thought, probably way off topic...

OH! I remember the other think I wanted to say! Remember when I told you about taking the SATs two weeks ago? I got the scores back! My score when up 70 points from 1140 to 1210! Praise Lord Jesus! Praise Sri Krsna! I could just dance! (Actually I was in school when I found it...and I did dance...the looks I got were very funny!)....I just felt like sharing...it really make my day to reach beyond my goal (which was 1200)

Talk to you all later! Haribol! (Now that I know what that means...thanks SleepingJiva!)

*Peace and Love*
Nicole

 

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,

It is so nice to have you back here.

You are like a soothing gentle breeze. Probably you will save this thread from death caused by asphyxia.

With love.......Kumar.

 

Awww...you are so sweet! Thankies!

Oooh! Guess what?! I got my Bhagavad-gita As It Is book! I have to go pick it up from the library!

Well...I've got to study for my English final and I have marching band tonight...but I'll talk to you all later!

Haribol!
*Peace and Love*
Nicole

 

Same letter, different meaning, as explained by Prabhupada's initiated disciples. Only his initiated disciples who are still following him can really understand his meaning. One must first give up meat eating, fale ego, and surrender to the guru before they properly understand an instruction this deep. So I emailed one of them and below I put the clearer explanation accordingly. (By the way, is chief cowpie an initiated disciple? LOL I know he's not.)

I have left the exact same letter, but put the emphasis on what Prabhupada actually meant, according to what HIS disciples have told me, and not according to the Gaudiya Math links you kept putting in, the very people he says NOT to go to for information, advice, or anything at all. I dont go to anyone but Prabhuapda. If you want to, thats fine, but to try to say they are one and the same, no. Prabhupada repeadtly said "stay away from my Gaudiya Math godbrothers."

I can only do one letter at a atime, and if needed and this is not enough, I'll come back and get to the rest of your letters later. I just dont have as much time to waste on the computer as you do, but why dont you just come out and claim to be more of a follower of the Gaudiya Math than of Prabhupada? I have no problem with an honest conviction. I have a problem trying to make the one the same as the other. Or maybe come out and say you are just doing it for the fun of it, and take pleasure in getting peoples goats. <G> Ya know, the humble posiiton would'nt hurt. I mean, do ya really think Prabhupada changed his mind after all those years of saying "avoid them" and never once contradicted himself, or else do ya think he's lying and the Gaudiya Math links are the truth tellers? Here's the letter you so kindly offered up.

My dear Rupanuga Maharaja,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of April 17, from Washington D.C. and I have very carefully noted the contents.

You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broadcast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man [/U]at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja, he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Matha. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead, unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya . If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya . His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was that a self-effulgent acarya would be automatically selected from amongst the successful members of the GBC. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha-adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps, the acaryais being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya . So it is better not to mix with my godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them."

(end of letter)


The "self effulgent" guru who manifested was Prabhupada. HE created ISKCON. No one wanted us americans. You think you are loyal to them but they would have come saved your sorry butt? lol No way. What did his godbrothers think about iskcon & Prabhupada?

In Mayapura India, the devotees once were all going to Sridhara Swami's math. Himavati went and some others. She discovered at Sridhara's Gaudiya Math that some of their leaders were snickering and saying Prabhupada can only make "Western mleccha Hippies" into devotees, and not brahmanas from India. Himavati challenged them on this issue, and they insulted her, and they said Prabhupada is only "the guru for the hippies."

Himavati returned back the river crying and reported all this to Srila Prabhupada. He said that we should not go to any of their temples. Srila Prabhupada didn't say don't go to any of their ashrams except for Sridhara Swami's or Narayana Maharaja's. His instructions were clear - don't go to any of them.

Another example: In Mayapura India, Gaudiya Math, Madhava Maharaja, he came over and shouted at Srila Prabhupada, pointed in his face with his finger quite rudely -- to stop using the title "Prabhupada." Devotees were worried and alarmed at this somewhat violent outburst. Then Prabhupada told them (approximate quote), "Post a guard at my door, my Godbrothers might try to harm me." Then some of them came and dug up some of the ISKCON foundation site, putting garbage there.

P.S. I noticed that Gaudiya Math link the letter was taken from left out part of Prabhupada's letter that implicated them. Its located at the end where Prabhuapada's original letter says: " This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja. Whereas that link says: "[names three godbrothers]." Hmmmmmmm​

 

Must go after doing a long post, but had to stop and say CONGRATULATIONS on your SAT's!!! And also on your getting your Gita in the mail! Things will be going good for you.

Yes, God dances. Vaisnava's (devotees of Krishna) know Him for the RasaLila Dance.

Take care.

YL

 

oh thanks, Yoga lady for clearing this up. Well, I would like to point at the fact that we are trying to explain our philosophy to other people and those who oppose us they use not very honest way, how to contradict us. Just look at it from this angle. They digging up all these lies, but they are not able to put any real argument why our philosophy shouldn't work. No, at first we have to prove that Prabhupada was fallen, then we will listen to you. It's like :"Hey, everybody must be like me!". What is the point in slendering? They're just confusing other people with their belief. As Srila Prabhupada said, faith is not sufficient, because you can change faith several time during your lifetime. Please, if you wanna oppose, ask reasonable questions. We are saying: "Lord is one! Why to blame others for glorifying Him in a different way?" and you are saying: "You are not tolerant. Why don't you tolerate that there are many gods?" See, you're the ones, who are not tolerant, because you see only forms. that is the origin of confusion to see things as separated. We should not allow this confusion be spred. Thank you.

 

Thank you very much. Ahh...I knew He danced! hehehehe

 

I saw also a post back there somewhere about siksa (siksha or shiksha) guru i.e. instructing guru, that Prabhupada said to accept Sridhara Swami as siksa guru. It also said in one of those Gaudiya Math articles that we are "villifying" the Gaudiya Math "guru's" when instead we should be accepting them as our siksa gurus. They are good at word jugglery, I'll tell you that much! No one is "villifying" any of them. What we have pointed out only, ONLY, has had to do with who fits the qualificaiton of guru. The anger is only coming from them, because they get envious Prabhuapda is not theirs, and that we stick with him too. I have read some very mean things these "followers of Prabhupada" have said about him. Yet if we say boo, we are "villifying." Better to get a clear understanding of what Prabhupada meant with this thing of "Sridhara as siksa guru."

Often the following has been quoted to show that Srila Prabhupada approved and supported Sridhara Swami, even the acceptance of him as Prabhupada's siksa guru.

"I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association." Srila Prabhupada letter to Hrsikesa January 9, 1969

This is only a partial quote. It also does not reveal the specific situation at hand. We can't tell by this, what was going on. So here it is.

Devotees, Hrisikesa and Acutyananda, ran run off to (Gaudiya Math) Bon Maharaja's place to learn from him. They wanted to permanently camp there and be his (siksa) disciples. At this point they all ready had decided they were not going to follow Prabhupada's instructions (go to Germany). Instead they wanted to take a Siksa Guru from the Gaudiya Matha in India. Prabhupada's letter was specific to this situation and not blanket approval. It was more along the lines of "damage control" for the soul of these two disciple. Bon Maharaja had even been rejected by Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja, so Prabhupada was trying to save them by drawing them away from him.

Lets look at all of that letter from Prabhupada:

"I suspect that you have interest in taking instruction from some siksa guru, but in this connection, because you are my disciple and I think, a sincere soul, it is my duty to refer you to someone who is competent to act as siksa guru. This Bon Maharaja, perhaps you do not know, has been rejected by Guru Maharaja. So I cannot recommend him as siksa guru. I think that he has no actual spiritual asset. For spiritual advancement of life, we must go to one who is actually practising spiritual life; not to some head of a mundane institution, not to one who has offended his Spiritual Master in so many ways. I do not wish to go into all details here, but I must inform you that this Bon Maharaja may be considered as a black snake, and at the time of His Disappearance, my Guru Maharaja did not even wish to have him in His presence due to the character of this Bon Maharaja. So if you are actually serious to take instructions from a siksa guru, I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association. He is living in Navadvipa, and if you like, I can give you letter of introduction as well as I will send him letter to allow you to stay there with him. So if you and Acyutananda are not lost to the poison of Bon Maharaja, and are still serious about advancement of your spiritual life, I will advise you to go to Sridhara Maharaja. Or else I do not know what will save you. So my advice to you both is that you immediately leave the unhealthy and envious association of Bon Maharaja and either proceed to Germany as I have instructed you, or at least go to someone who will be competent to act as sisksha guru. This is Sridhara Maharaja.

When I was in India, Acyutananda, Ramanuga, and myself, with others, lived with Sridhara Maharaja, so Acyutananda knows him very well. He spared a big house for us and if both of you go there now, it will be very good for your spiritual benefit. Then I will feel that you are safe. Besides that, if you wish to live in India, you can make arrangements for this house so that other of your god-brothers may go there in the future. Just on the other side of the Ganges there is Mayapur, and you can occasionally or every week go there and learn Bengali and Sanskrit if it is your desire. All facilities are there. Sridhara Maharaja is a very good English scholar and he can talk with you very nicely in English. The room in Vrindaban where you are residing may also be kept so that it may be utilized when necessary. But so far as I am concerned, I am becoming older and older, and my life may be finished at any moment. As I have got my permanent residence in America, it is indication of Krishna that I shall live here to organize this movement to the best possible extent. If I sometimes go out of this country, I will go to Europe only and again come back. So, practically I have decided not to go to India anymore. In case I suddenly meet my death, then I shall make my will how to deal with my body later on.

So don't be carried away by whims. It is my duty to save you. Leave Vrindaban, live peacefully with Sridhara Maharaja, if you do not wish to go to Germany, and thereby you will be spiritually enlightened. Please inform me immediately regarding what you have decided."

(end of siksa letter)

That was more of the details regarding what was the purpose of that specialized letter on this topic of siksa.

Furthermore, regarding Prabhupada accepting Sridhara Maharaja as his own siksa guru, a few simple points to consider ---

First, please to remember Prabhupada can be exceptionally humble! He even asked one of his American disciples to pray to Krishna for him.

Secondly, while Prabhupada is referring to Sridhara Maharaja as his siksa guru, basically any devotee who tells anyone about Krishna becomes siksa, at least for that moment. That does not put devotees on any exalted platform of comparison. It's not about us, its about the definition of siksa.

(Hey, you're all my siksa gurus! )

Another importance often ignored by Gaudiya Math godbrothers it that while referring to Sridhara Maharaja as his siksa guru, Prabhupada simultaneously said this same godbrother was responsible for tearing apart the Gaudiya Math, as well as disobeying His Guru Maharaja, and having no interest in preaching.

And the famous 'siksa' letter -- was written in 1969 before what happened at the Mayapur Festival of in 1972, described in the previous post of mine. Although not all of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers showed up for that first Mayapur festival of 72, many of them did. A meeting was arranged in the bamboo cottage between Prabhupada and his Mayapur (Tirtha Maharaja's group) godbrothers. They came in a rage and Srila Prabhupada sat on the floor at equal level with them. They accused Prabhupada of starting His own movement "without Authority of the Gaudiya Math."

They stated that this is a "great offense," and that Srila Prabhupada
must turn over all his disciples and world wide assets (such as vehicles and temples) to them. Then he can be forgiven for his "offenses."

Additionally, they stated that he "unauthorizedly" allows women and
men to dance together, has created brahmacarini's (the female version of brahmacari's or monks), allows sacred bead bags to be seen in public, gives Brahmin initiation for women, etc.

Srila Prabhupada made an offer to them. He invited them to come to America with him and preach in various centers. He offered to make them like GBC and manage areas of Iskcon. They were insulted by this offer and stormed out.

Some point out that not all of Prabhupada's godbrothers were present, and not all of Prabhupada's godbrother's said such things - yet, even Prabhupada's friend did not speak out or verbalized "whats going on here is wrong."

Finally, while Srila Prabhupada may have said that he considered a particular godbrother as a siksa guru in the sense that He may have consulted with him in some matters, we should recognize there is no evidence that Srila Prabhupada consulted or agreed with this godbrother in the most important principle in Guru Diksa or who whould be an "initiating" guru. He knew they were not qualified. Or the second most important: developing attachment for chanting. Matter of fact, the stronger evidence reveals that Srila Prabhupada not only said His godbrother lacked qualification to be Acarya but also did not obey Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja.

 

I'm sure I'm off on this...or something...but maybe he forgave them....gave them another chance or something...he seems like an incredably forgiving person...

...if I'm totally off or missed the point...just ignore me....

 

WOW You're fast. I'm still editing! LOL Or was until I saw your post. So if there's some slight differences between whats in mine now and whats in your quote, my appologies. And I will stop editing. ha

But yeah, you're just behind on posts, thats all. Tho this topic isn't really important if you're not trying to say the Gaudiya Math and Prabhuapda are the same thing, which you are not. I was posting to our lovely chief cowpie who enjoys posting subtle minimization of Prabhupada via the Gaudiya Math, because that's what they do (Gaudiya).

But you bring up a good point. I think many of us confuse how we would respond in our human, conditioanl phase of life, to how Prabhupada did or his spiriutal master did. So am glad you made this comment/question. And you are right. There was forgiveness. In spiritual lifel, one who is pure can disagree, even strongly, with their godbrothers yet still love them. Cuz its not about their personal relatioship at all, but about what their guru wanted, the qualification.

Additionally I heard there was one Gaudiya Math godbrother that Bhaktisidhanta Maharaja (Prabhupada's guru) was VERY unhappy with, yet when he died, Bhaktisiddhanta said he went back to Godhead. So all this can be going on, yet in spiriutal life there can still be forgiveness for it.

YL

 

You make several good points here. Thank you.

I think the bottom line is, you started this thread, and it appeared to me all you wanted to do was say, "Hey, this is what I find cool as a path to God, its called chanting Hare Krishna, and Prabhupada is the guru, so I just want to tell ya all about this thing and share it with those INTERESTED. I'm not against anyone, just this is my thing to share with those of like mind." Am I close? Anyhow, then all this other stuff kept coming up, and why? For all the reasons you said above. More I suppose. But some people [not saying all people] just dont want to keep it simple. Gotta bring in the politics, Gotta "assume" we dont believe in other gurus, or other religions, etc. And gotta "fix" us cuz we sure need fixin. <G> Last I looked, the title of this thread was "Hare Krishna." lol

Like George said, "Chant! And be Happy!" Happy -- is that so hard? Digging up all this other stuff brings one down to the mental platform, that's not happiness. I guess they hate to be alone. <G>

Keep it simple. Just chant and that will birng happiness.

 

yeah, that's right, those were my intentions, I wanted to share this happiness, which chanting brings. I know that lot of people are just trapped and I wanted to help them. I know it's working, you just need to listen and try to understand -that's all. But if you have all these prejudgements, your mind is controlling you instead of you controling the mind. I'm not saying, join this movement, make commitment, bow down in front of something you don't even know. No. The primal thing is chant mahamantra (see below) and experience the pleasure! All speculations and intellectual debates are fine, but they are as well conditioned by our senses. And lot of time they just end up like this in dry explanations. Therefore we should control our senses first to see the world in more truthful way. And this control of senses can be attained simply by chanting, you just chant. you don't even need to believe in Lord Krishna to benefit! Why not to try it?

haribol!


ps. This is a link to article I just found out at http://www.krishna.org and it brings more quotes of Prabhupada about this issue. Though I wish we stopped this debate over Prabhupada's godbrothers -that is not related to the topic of this thread.
http://iskcon.krishna.org/Articles/2001/06/00320.html

 

those words were not typed by you but by Krishna's spirit typing through you...the War is over

now is the time for devotees to stop seeing limited sectarianism but as all of us as members of the Chaitanya Mahaprabhu family...even us Bauls who have been excluded by the Gaudiya Vaisnavas

see the world as one where we can all work together to Chant and be Happy

and heal each others wounded spirits

have a haribol day

p.s. and once again, i'm am not a member of the gaudiya math...i am a Baul (a tantric left handed path of bisexuality, meateating and intoxication)

 

[size=+2]World Vaishnava Association[/size]

• [size=+3]Sri Sri Guru Gauranga Jayatah[/size]
  
  
  [size=+3]Why do we need a world vaisnava association?
  [/size]by Svami B.A. Paramadvaiti
  Secretary of the WVA and founding member
  Why do we need a world vaisnava association?
  WVA goals and expectations propose vaisnava solutions
  to those problems in order to be taken seriously by the world at large.
  WVA goals and expectations further explained
  how can we reach every town and village with mahaprabhu's message?
  Intramission and intermission disputes
  The gaudiya vaisnavas and other vaisnava groups
  The heart of the vaisnavas
  United we stand,divided we loose strength
  The WVA: promoting love and tolerance
  The identity of a vaisnava
  Practical services of the WVA today
  The holy places must be protected
  Promoting vaisnava relief work
  The WVA is also your little child
  The dignity of our preceptorial line

Why do we need a World Vaisnava Association?

Let me first offer my most humble obeisance's to my Diksa and Siksa-Gurus and to all the wonderful Vaisnavas in this world.
As Century 21 approaches, it is a very happy reality that many Vaisnava Acaryas, sannyasis and other devotees have come forward making an unified effort to revive the true spirit of the Visva-Vaisnav Raj -Sabha (World Vaisnava Association).
Let us dwell for a moment on the many advantages such an association has to offer to all of us. After careful consideration, we will realize that the Association envisioned by Srila Jiva Goswami and our founding fathers is actually a necessity from many angles of vision. We cannot really go on well without it. Here are a few points to highlight this thesis.


WVA GOALS AND EXPECTATIONS

1. We must all try to fulfill the prediction of Sriman Mahaprabhu, which is that His Holy Name will be chanted in every town and village throughout the world.
2. According to Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur in this age all the other sampradayas will align themselves with the teachings of Sriman Mahaprabhu and the Brahma-sampradaya.
3. The character and magnitude of the Vaisnava teachings are supposed to be so pure and great that the whole world can find shelter there.
4. We accept the Founder-Acaryas of all four Vaisnava-sampradayas and thus need to find a common ground from which we can relate to their present-day leaders and adherents.
5. Different rasas and expansions of the Lord are all accomodated within the broad view of pure devotees. Similarly, we need to make room for the free flow of different services and relationships between the many Vaisnava branches all connected to the same one Vaisnava family tree, the Sri Chaitanya tree.
6. Party Spirit is the enemy of truth. We need a forum which is devoid of enmities and petty quarrels. Such a forum can convince all devotees and even non-devotees of the true greatness of the Vaisnava message.
7. We need the identity of a Vaisnava to go beyond the affiliation to a particular institution. Even the connection to our Diksa-guru and his personal mission may be insufficient after his departure (Bhag. 11.9.31,CC Adi 1.1) because in every mission substantial changes cause some disciples to continue their spiritual life outside of their Gurudev's original mission. Recent examples of this include Srila Bhaktisaranga Gosvami Maharaj, Srila Bhaktidayita Madhava Maharaj, Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaj, Srila Bhaktiviveka Bharati Maharaj, Srila Bhaktiraksaka Sridhar Maharaj, Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaj P., Srila Bhaktipramoda Puri Maharaj and many others.
8. There are Tirthas, holy places, in every mission and in our Vaisnava religion in general. This means we have to take care of such holy places connected with the descent of the Lord and His devotees. Tirtha caretakers must be free from quarrel and party spirit. Tirthas must be held sacred by everyone who shares this happy faith in the Lord and His devotees. Private property concerns and Guru monopolies destroy the peaceful atmosphere necessary for a Tirtha to bestow its blessings on one and all. We have to find a way to introduce the principle of unity in diversity in the Tirthas of each and every developing Vaisnava family, generation after generation.
9. We need to know more about each others' capacities and to prepare answers for the problems of a confused, developing world. Everyone is searching for relief from the onslaught of the mayik influence, kali-yuga. Vaisnavas have to carefully research their own resources and subsequently propose Vaisnava solutions to those problems in order to be taken seriously by the world at large.

WVA GOALS AND EXPECTATIONS FURTHER EXPLAINED

How can we reach every town and village with Mahaprabhu's message?

1. In order that the prophecy of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu be fulfilled we need an Army of pure preachers. If we desire that the Holy Name be chanted everywhere, we will need countless Gurus guiding countless disciples in their spiritual life. All of them will regard their Gurus as transparent, capable representatives of our Guru-Sastra-Sadhu principle. Since we may never offend a Vaisnava without spoiling our own spiritual life, we have to adjust our darshan-vision to allow for neighboring temples, Gurus and disciples. No matter how beloved one particular Guru was, his disciples will not all be able to transfer that same love to any successor-Acarya, whose relative position may be that of a godbrother. New choices have to be made concerning how a mission shall run after the Acarya disappears. Each individual devotee has to determine how to continue his own life of surrender and preaching, and the mission should try as far as possible to accommodate him. How sad is it otherwise, for a Vaisnava mission, if valuable members withdraw due to unfortunate conditions which are beyond their control.
   
   It is hard to conceive of,and neither in the past has it been shown, that a spiritual master who inspired a growing mission with the help of many disciples could just be substituted by any single successor. Firstly,the godbrothers are not surrendered to him in the same way they were to their Guru. Secondly, he may not have the same drive or capacity as his Guru had, and thus, his failure to maintain things will go to his discredit, what to speak of expanding the mission. Individual devotees are capable of doing wonderful things and those who were expecting all wonderful things to manifest only within their own jurisdiction will again and again be reminded of the all-pervading nature of Transcendence. All the disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur were taken by surprise to see one of their godbrothers,Abhay Babu, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaj (Srila Prabhupad) almost single-handedly fulfill the prediction of Sriman Mahaprabhu.
   
   The WVA shall accept as members all those who preach the gospel of Krsna-Prema, Krsna-kirtan and Vaisnav-seva in as much as they represent the pure doctrine and share the common goals of the WVA. Therefore, the WVA cannot exclude from membership anyone just on the basis of a dispute he has with some other member. As a matter of fact the WVA shall provide such a happy and broadminded view that many such disputes will naturally be set aside to concentrate on our real business which is: Sri KRISHNA Sankirtan.

 

note: the following article by Swami B.A. Paramadvaiti, WVA-Secretary is a Prabhupada disciple as were the articles concerning the final instructions by a Prabhupada disciple...Visnu Maharaja...the other article by Gopakumar is also a Prabhupada disciple

i hope everyone here sees that the reconciliation and healing that is going between the Gaudiya Matha and Prabhupada disciples is being initiated by many Prabhupada disciples and is not inspired by enviousness but by love of God and a desire amongst all devotees to fullfill the wish of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and deliver transcendental love of Krishna to all the universe