hare krishna

its the "but hurt no one" that's the important part and applicable to one's yoga. That hurting no one, also includes one's own self.

 

oh yeah, it's hardly acceptable by Srila Prabhupada. If u just love Krishna, u don't need pot, when u need it, u don't love Krishna properly. But I know that GanjaPrince tries to honour the plant and that I find very excpetional. Let that be the way out. Just chant mahamantra, u don't need all those yogas, they're not efficient in this age. Yoga means freedom from power of senses. I wish u good luck. I liked black bill's "bad drugs" list, you're definetely right. Alcohol is just simply evil comparing to ganja. Cigarettes too and they're supported by government, what a hypocrisy.

 

BlackBillBlake: Hey, it's a great thing u wanna do, please don't give up. It's only maya when u see kids don't wanna hear about Krishna. Man, I know it's really hard. The only thing is to go on. Wait until they come down they will be eager to hear about Krishna, when their material life proves to be suffering. I wish u good luck, you're in my prayers, u'r a great guy.

 

"I have to admit that at this time, in spite of my daily association with Bhaktivedanta, I was not happy with the Hare Krishna’s, in fact I was downright miserable. My wife did nothing but fight with me, the leaders were all in my opinion quite insane, and the entire atmosphere was as stressful as it had ever been. I had an organic candy business making Bhakti, Shakti and Bliss bars, and was tripping around selling to various health food stores, when I ran into an old devotee I knew from Laguna Beach who had traveled to India with Bhaktivedanta, but had become disillusioned and had left the movement, so I started hanging out with him and smoking hash just to get a bit of relief. Om Shiva. Bhaktivedanta traveled for a few weeks and then returned to LA. It was during his absence that I started hanging with my friend and smoking hash, and of course my straight laced wife finds out about it and go and tells the then GBC and temple president Karandar, who when they return, then goes and tells Nanda Kumar who then goes and tells Bhaktivedanta. I’d gone to a rather strange headspace during this time, and not just from smoking hash. I was chanting over 100 rounds a day, sleeping a few hours each night and was wearing a saffron dhoti tied like a sanyassi dhoti rather than my white house holder dhoti. Bhaktivedanta called me to his room, took one look at me and said, “What are you doing?” I said I was chanting over 100 rounds a day and wanted to be a sanyassi and live in Vrindaban. I don’t get along with my wife, no one here understands me and I don’t get along with the temple authorities. He laughed and said I’ll tell you when its time for you to go to Vrindaban. He then said so I hear you’ve been smoking hash hish? And I said yes. And he said best not to as no one will understand what I am doing, but he didn’t take it at all seriously. Said I should dress normally and be a house holder and set a good example and come back and do his massages while he was there, so I did."
Kanupriya dasa

 

and too, to hurt no one is love eveyone... to love one's self


to truly love one's self is to love Krishna as Krishna is the natural reciever of our love

 

Hare Krishna!

Dear SvgGrdnBeauty,


Thank you for your beautiful post... a ray of hope, as said by BBB. I am sorry if I inadvertently had hurt you.

The dangerous problem of today's young generation is wide spread and is a global problem now. All problems are due to wrong identification of 'Ananda' or lack of teachings on our part to let them know and realize what gives real and permanent pleasure. It is a vast subject and we could go on and on. Let us only keep trying to tell through any possible way or medium(Like this Forum) that there is everlasting love, eternal pleasure and truly blissful addiction....... to chant His name and see the upheaval it brings in one's life, leading to the bliss of divine consciousness.

As the babies and children are necessarily closer to their mothers during the whole process of growing up, it is imperative that the mothers should prepare themselves first. Because we can successfuly preach something when we practise it ourselves.


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.


With love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna!


Dear ChiefCowpie,

All those posts about the birds and flowers of Brindavan, the photographs and the last post on Rati(Ratnaranjini).........very beautiful and inspiring. Thank you.



Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

 

I see your point Chief, but I think the issue is quite complex. What hurts people, really? What is the root cause of their suffering? One answer given in the Vedic literature is that it is avidya, ignorance of God and the Soul that is the real cause of suffering, and yoga is the way out of this. Therefore any action outside of yoga is only a source of harm, to oneself and/or to others, because it is just generating more karma that one day will have to be faced.
It's also interesting to note the marked contrast between the wiccan's 'do what you will if it harm none', and Jesus 'Thy Will Be Done'.
It's the Will of God we have to seek, not just to find a way to satisfy the desires of the lower nature.

Hare Krishna!

 

Surely love is a dynamic thing, not just to refrain from harming others?


Hare Krishna!

 

And you are in my prayers too, sleeping jiva!

Krishna Krishna!

 

Hare Krishna!

Dear GanjaPrince,


Regarding your thought provoking beautiful post I would like to add to whatever has been truly said by BBB.

By God's grace I have been to almost all the countries of the world, met thousands of people from various religions, race and creed and , of course, met and came in close contacts with many great sadhus. It is my Lord's great compassion that I was blessed by them. These sadhus are from different paths of Sadhana but at one point they are at one with that you should behave like a normal social being when you are living in a society. You must have the sense of social responsibility.

I do not qualify and am not a fool enough to question a great sadhu like Neem Karoli baba. But I have serious doubts about whether He prescribed Ganja for all in general.If He told a few chosen ones(Depending on their merits and need) to use Ganja it is alright. Even then I suppose it should be practised in total desolation.

Practice of what is divine game for you could be game of death for most of the others. What Lord Shiva could do (To contain all the poison in His throat) we can not do the same(We are still suffering from the little poison that had spilled off from His mouth). Nirguna Yogis can do anything and everything, they can eat white-hot piece of coal without trace of any pain. Should we try to do that?

True Tantrics or the Prabartaks(Beginners) never do any sadhana living inside the social decorum. And sex is something you should be more careful about. All jobs are His jobs alright but we do not need to talk about everything in general to everybody. Ganja, sex, alcohol all could be of temporary gains only for just a few but they have devastating effects on 99% of the users(And it is the young generation). Everything has a medicinal value, but do we honestly take them as medicine! We know the ruins made by these so called drugs.


One who attains to Svarupa has no longer any interest in sex, or in other sensual pleasure, as that person has discovered the real Ananda of the Divine, which is not a passing thing, subject to change, but something eternal.
LSD etc can be useful as an introduction to spiritual realities, but again, its not a permanant state - one comes down, and in many cases (I've met lots over the years) there is a falling away from any insight gained. And there is a danger that because one has this or that experience, one will think oneself more advanced on the path than is the case.
........From BlackBillBlake

I fully agree with BBB and would like to suggest that there is far more than what we have seen and understood. Beam of sun rays definitely represent the sun but seeing the rays and seeing the sun are two greatly different things. Seeing the corner of the dress of the mother is not seeing the mother. Of course, that itself gives us lot of pleasure and peace that She is around. Should we stop there or try to see Her?

ChiefCowpie rightly says it is OK as long as it does not do any harm to him or others. But I strongly feel it is not Ok because it may not be to you but causing great harm to others.


I always hold you in high esteem, you are at a much higher plane even without Ganja. Hope, you understand me.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.


With love,

Kumar.

 

Thank you Kumar for that wonderful post - esp. the part about the difference between touching the Mother's apron and seeing Her more fully! I love it


You rightly say that for some few ganja may be ok, but for many it will be just another negative addiction.

Recently, I was talking about this to a freind, who reminded me that George Harrison, a great devotee of Sri Krishna, was a heavy smoker of cigarettes, and possibly, cannabis too. So one can't say absolutely that one who does these things is excluded in some way from Krishna Consciousness. But George's sad and untimely demise is an indicator of the dangers. Had George quit smoking years ago, maybe he'd still be alive today............

Krishna Krishna Krishna Krishna
Krishna Krishna Krishna He!

 

Don't worry...you didn't insult me at all...I absolutely agree with you. Something has to be done and even if we only chip a bit at a time at least we are doing something...

 

The Hare Krishna movement (ISKCON) was started in 1966. It is not 5000 years old. Hinduism itself is not 5000 years old. The Vedas were written 3500 years ago. Hinduism may be (arguably) the oldest still-practiced religion in the world, but it is certainly not the oldest to ever exist. There are no credible records going back that far, to make such a claim. The Hare Krishna movement is not Hinduism any more than Christianity is Judaism. If you consider ISKCON to be "reform Hinduism" then it logically follows that Christianity is "reform Judaism".

There are questionable records that can place the roots of Hinduism as far back as 6000 BCE. But there are equally questionable records that can place the roots of Judaism as far back as 8000 BCE. It's not meaningful to claim one came before the other, or that others did not exist, since all the records going that far back are terrible.

 

Krishna is eternal, u r eternal, we r eternal.

 

Einstein said that he only believed that two things were eternal: the universe and human stupidity. And he added that he wasn't sure about the former.

 

Hare Krishna!

Dear Friends, Devotees and Seekers,

The following is one letter, one of the most shining jewels in the spiritual sky, from the great Yogi Krishnaprem to his friend, Dadaji Dilip Kumar Roy, another great Yogi. The former at the time of writing the letter was already self-realized and was one who saw not only the rays but the sun itself. The latter was still the seeker with endless questions and doubts and much later he also could see Lord Krishna before his death. The last words before his death were, "Please wash my hands, my Lord, Krishna, has come and I want to touch His feet."

Yogi Krishnaprem had advised Dadaji not to publish this letter but Dadaji did it for all of us under the divine wish of the Lord. He had apologized thousand times for this. Please read with patience, this letter is strongly inspiring, it will remove many doubts and answer many questions that normally bug most of us.


My dear Dilip, 31st December, 1932.
Almora.

You ask if I have ever had doubts. Well, not now - to any serious extent. I came to see that the root cause of my doubts was simply that things were not going as I wished them to go. When I ceased to expect that things should go as I wished, the doubts vanished. I do not mean by the above that I consider that I have attained the stage of ceasing to want things to go my way. All I mean is that I have ceased to make it a prerequisite of faith that these should so do. Since then I am not worried in any serious manner. I believe that desire to have one's own way is the root cause of all doubt.

My own position is something like this : It is well known that there are three main sources of proof - Pratyaksha, Anumana and Shabda(Or Aptabachan). Now common opinion starts by assuming that Pratyaksha is the most valid - 'Seeing is believing' as they say, then Anumana, and lastly authority or Aptabachan. This view leads almost inevitably(If courageously followed) to Russellism. On the contrary the great seers of the past, of all schools of thought, have taken quite the contrary view. They agreed that inasmuch as our senses are notoriously liable to error and super normal experiences, notoriously liable to misinterpretation, Pratyaksha praman is defective. Inference(Anumana) being dependent on Pratyaksha is liable to the same defects and the best basis for belief is Aptabachan whether in the form of Gurubakya or of Shastra - the two are fundamentally the same thing. They then reversed the ordinary order and by so doing arrived not at Russellism but at spiritual experience and Divine realization. Hence I hold that one must at all costs start from the right end if one is to get the right result. One must give up the stupid belief that the world is what it seems to be. It isn't and the sooner we realise that, the better for us. Incidentally, why do you keep harping on Russell ? I quite agree that he is a fine man in many ways and a fine thinker of his own sort, but why do you keep hoping that your Gurudev(Rishi Aurobindo) or someone else will answer his sceptical arguments ? If you accept Russell's premises you will be forced into his conclusions, but then why accept his premises ? He is no muddle-headed thinker whose coclusions are at fault with his premises. Quite the reverse. If you set foot on an escalator you will automatically be carried to the top of it, so don't set foot on it when you see it is going in the wrong direction.

How do we know that the Shastra is true ? How do we know that the Grand Trunk road from Calcutta leads to Delhi ? Because thousands and thousands have passed along it and reached the goal described. Has any one yet been known to reach God through Russellism ? "By their fruits shall ye know them." No one has yet reached God by reliance on sense-testimony alone.

The next point you raise is about the concreteness of Sri Krishna. You use the term 'Sarupya' as equivalent to 'milan'. This is not quite clear to me. In Vaishnava terminology 'sarupya' means merely having a similar form to that of Sri Krishna and is not used for Radha Bhava. However, that is a mere matter of names. I am myself utterly certain that Sri Krishna can be experienced in perfect concreteness. As I think I once said before, He is the concrete of concretes and no mere misty abstraction or imagined form. He is no semi-imaginary projection out of a formless Brahman, but is the reality which supports all else. I am not denying the reality of experience of the Nirvishesha Brahman but saying that the latter is like seeing the sunlight while to see Krishna is to see the sun itself.

I quite agree with you that love of Sri Krishna is far more satisfying than any mere impersonal Ananda and one who has once reached the level even of desiring such love can never be satisfied with less. But on the other hand I do also feel that one must make no demands on Him that He should show Himself to receive our love. There is no doubt whatever that He both can and does do so, and that, too, in as concrete a form as anyone could desire, but I feel that one must leave that entirely to Him and - if it is His will - be content to love Him without any return or even any Darshan. Till then our love is tainted with selfishness. Gopi-prem is not the desire to enjoy Krishna but the desire to serve and be enjoyed by Him. One must make no demands and no bargain. But at the same time that does not mean, as some 'adhyatmikisers' teach, that love of Krishna is thus merely a means to establish in any easy manner the state of unselfishness and that when that is attained there is no further need of the personal Krishna at all. It is quite the other way round. Unselfishness is the means to attain Him and at His own time He does accept the love of His bhakta in as personal and real a form as can be desired and a great deal more real than we can conceive. He is more real, more vivid than 'sunlight on the retina' as you put it. We have got so used to consider spiritual realities as vague and unsubstantial that we quite fail to realise that whatever 'reality' and 'vividness' is to be found in our sense-perceptions is but a faint shadow of His vividness. Krishna's embraces are no mere damned allegory about purusha and prakriti. And for God's sake, Dilip, remember that Krishna's feet are more real than yours.

You write that you have sometimes criticised Sri Aurobindo. You shouldn't have. Of course he will not mind. He sees jewel in the lotus and can smile at your crticism, - but you must not do it. Even in thought you must not criticise him. It all springs from desire to have things one's own way. He is your Guru and first, it is sheer ingratitude to criticise one who has shown you the light, and secondly, the Guru is inseparable from Krishna. He is the one who has shown you the light, and your whole life can be no repayment for such a gift. Even if you were to spend the rest of this life with no further 'experiences' at all you would be utterly wrong if you refused to give yourself to him. As far as I know he does not ask for blind obedience from his disciples(At least so I gather from his letters) but one must never criticise even when one can not follow. If one could understand everything one's Guru said, then there would not be a deal of need for a Guru at all.

You say you wonder why doubts persist even in the face of experience. Well, I think one reason is because we do not see the full causal system of spiritual experiences. Our ordinary life is a linked series of causes and effects and the persistence of the visible effects assures us of the reality of their causes. Thus the reality of the interview I had with a carpenter yesterday or last month is testified to by the reality of the piece of work he brought me today. But in spiritual experience the ordinary sadhaka is not aware of the whole cause-and-effect series and therefore these experiences seem to come without any 'before or after'. In fact they come in from another dimension and as such we tend to doubt them afterwards. But this also happens with sense-experience when the causal series is not perceived. A friend of mine once saw a ship sink suddenly in mid-ocean as a result of a torpedo from an unseen submarine and assured me that when it had sunk and left no trace whatever, he found it almost impossible to believe that there had ever been a ship there at all.

Why do you doubt that Krishna will respond to you ? Because you feel you are unworthy ? So are we all. We are no Rukminis that we can write to Krishna saying as she did that "I have such and such good qualities and only you are worthy of them". We have nothing to recommend us to Krishna except our desire for Him. That is why the Brajavasis must be our Gurus and not Rukmini, and the queens of Dwaraka. He Himself is the full of all good qualities and powers. Will you try to dazzle a jewller with a handful of imitation diamonds or astonish a Yogi with a few conjuring tricks ? All we can offer Him is our love, and that He will never reject. Would to God we had more of it......



Continued..............(2)

 

(2)

I think that it is most important that we should always remember the distinction between our outer personalities and our inner selves, as Sri Aurobindo so beatifully expounds in his letter, those selves which Krishna describes as 'Eternal portions of Himself' and which Vaishnava doctrine refers to as Krishna's Nitya Das. By that inner self one must dominate the outer one or, if one is not always strong enough to do that, one must at least detach oneself from the outer, float on the outer self as the lotus floats on the water, surrounded by it but quite untouched. Faith in Krishna and love for Him is really the property of this inner self. The ordinary mental or emotional attitudes that we commonly call belief(Or doubt) are merely shadows of this inner faith cast on the outer mind and emotions. That is why they are fleeting while the inner faith is unwavering. When one acts from that inner self one is utterly free whatever one may be doing but when one acts from the outer so-called self one is bound even when one thinks one is freely indulging one's 'own' desires. In reality one is simply mechanically following the play of the three gunas in one's own(lower) nature. Nevertheless I am not urging that what is sometimes called 'self-realisation' is the goal. It can be had quite certainly and is equally certainly a state of ananda but it is not the full ananda. For that, the self which is anandakan must enter into relation with Krishna who is anandaghan. That is why the final word of the Gita is not Atmajnana(Self-knowledge) but "Manmana bhava mad-bhakto"(Be-thou-my-devotee) and that is why the Bhagabat describes faith in Atmajnana as sattwic but faith in 'Krishnaseva' as 'nistraigunya'.

I think I can sum up my 'creed'(Would it were my practice! But action always lags behind vision) in four words : "Ask nothing ; give everything." At one time I passionately desired 'experiences' and if one really desires them Krishna is no niggard, but now I feel that love of Him must be independent of all 'experiences' which will come and go at His will and to serve His purpose. It must be something like the air we breathe which may, no doubt, sometimes be perfumed with scent of flowers but is no less essential to us when it has no perceptible scent.

Some people describe Him as formless or as having thousands of hands and feet but two feet are enough for me. And what feet ! If one misses them no Brahmananda and no Mukti can be enough to compensate for the loss. I suppose some people would call this anthropomorphism, but what does it matter what they call it ? Facts are facts and I reject this modern notion that the abstract alone is true. Just as there could be no ananda anywhere if Krishna were not anandamaya so there could be no concreteness anywhere if He were not concrete and no form anywhere if He had no form. At one time, as you know, I worshipped the Buddha, and deeply too ; but that was before I knew Sri Krishna, and now, when I look down the vistas of the past, among all the host of shadowy phantom figures I see only that one Divine form gleaming with supernatural light. But why the past ? Past, present and future, there is nothing but Him. The curves of His body are worth more than all the Infinites and Eternals and Absolutes. All the worlds are within the pores of His skin, and yet there He remains, no shadowy cosmic figure, but the eternal cowherd, in yellow dhoti, peacock feathers, maddening the soul with the melody from a bamboo flute. Krishnat pram kimapi tattwam aham na jane(What truth can there be beyond Krishna - I do not know).

You see , Dilip, I am quite lost. Jagadish Chatterjee wanted me to write a book on Sri Krishna for his American school of Vedic studies, but what can I write ? I can't write grave philosophy like Woodroffe about mantra-shakti and ishta-devata and absolute being, nor delve into the dubious uncertainties of history like Bhandarkar, and I can't, to a Western public at any rate, simply recount how Krishna held up Mount Govardhan on His little finger. They would want to know what it all "meant." I am weary of all "meanings". It means just Krishna.

Love always, Dilip, from your ever affectionate,

Krishnaprem.


(Sri Aurobindo wrote about this letter to his disciple,Dadaji : "Dilip, Krishnaprem's letter is sound throughout as usual; he has, very evidently, a living spiritual consciousness and spiritual knowledge.")


Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna!

Dear BlackBillBlake,

Thank you for your beautiful and kind post.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

With love,

Kumar.

 

JAI SRI KRISHNA!

The inner consicous entity, the one who dwells in the ocean of milk , SRI HARI! KI JAI!