hare krishna

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by sleeping jiva, May 8, 2004.

  1. jailmate

    jailmate Plantenist

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    look here, then quit Krishnah and grov Hair
     
  2. Orsino2

    Orsino2 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    nithing more powerful den dah hairz.
     
  3. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    We don't say everyone else is crazy - only those who have no spiritual path. Srila Prabhupada urged everyone to simply repeat the name of God - if you believe in Jesus, for example, you can repeat ' Lord Jesus Chirst Son of God have mercy' as was and is the orthodox practice. Roman Catholics have something similar with the saying of the Holy Rosary.
    If you think this is a sane world we live in, look again. People are controlled by greed, prejudice, lust, ignorance and often malice. If they can become peaceful and positive through the Hare Krishna maha mantra, whats wrong with that?
     
  4. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    :) Dear Jiva - I know that it isn't easy to get the balance right here. On one hand, as you say, many people are closed to any idea of Krishna, and if you associate too closely with them, or with anyone who is non-spiritually minded, there is the risk that they'll drag you down to their level, or at least lead to a loss of consciousness. If a person is trying to cultivate love of Krishna, then that kind of association can be quite a trial!
    It's no use to try to explain to those who don't want to listen - they are materielly engrossed. Krishna gives them all the time in the world to continue like this, life after life, until they one day recieve the Mercy of some pure devotee and turn back towards God. Its like Jesus parable of the sower, where some of the seed falls on rocky ground and just dies, some falls in with the weeds and gets choked, and some on good ground, where it grows to fullness.
    It's partly because of this problem, and also to provide for association among devotees that Srila Prabhupada founded ISKCON in the west. It is a great shame that the pretender 'gurus' have poluted His organization. There are other devotees around though, and maybe you should try to have some association with them. :)
    Devotees will enter into association with non-devotees to spread the message of Krishna Consciousness. Just recently, I was in the nearby town when I was approached in the street by a devotee asking for a donation and offering me a book by Sri Narayan Maharaja. I stopped to talk for some time, and he explained that he'd been there for two hours and hadn't had any success. Now he'd actually found someone who is interested in Krishna, he felt it had been worth while, and he'd pack up and move on to somewhere else! I was impressed, as I always am when I see devotees doing book distribution in the streets. The book, by the way, was 'The Butter Thief', a retelling by Narayan Maharaja of some stories of Krishna'a childhood pastimes.
    Myself, I hate going into town - I really don't like the whole atmosphere.
    It's often better to avoid conflict where one can.
    As for facists, Srila Prabhupada said 'it is MAYA who is the facist'!
     
  5. jesuswasamonkey

    jesuswasamonkey Slightly Tipsy

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    In my opinion, hatred(dislike, exclusion, shunning, etcetera) of all that is not like you is a very unhealthy attitude, and it is in fact the very foundation of fascism.

    What did the Nazis want?

    They wanted to make the whole world to be like them.

    An intricately woven web is a far more beautiful thing than a single thick thread.
     
  6. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Hate is certainly bad. However, where 'exclusion' is concerned, it is in fact practiced by virtually everyone. I don't want to associate for example with violent people who drink etc. I don't want to associate with right-wing racists - and doubtless many others. That doesn't make me a facist.
    No one is excluded - Krishna Consciousness is open to all. Many exclude themselves.
    The Nazi's wanted to dominate the world through violence, and to destroy certain racial groups, establishing themselves as the 'master race'. Nobody I have met who is into Krishna has any such agenda.
    The world may do as it pleases - I for one don't want everyone to be the same. But look around - in today's 'society' it seems thay are all very alike! They wear clothes made by the same companies in a narrow range of 'fashions', they watch the same tv shows, drive the same cars - crave the same old pleasures, and line up in nice neat rows to be shot when called upon by 'their nation'!
    Everyone is free to follow whatever spiritual path they like. If one wishes to follow Krishna Consciousness, then association of devotees is quite naturally recommended. And whatever one believes or thinks, hardly anyone wants to be around people that are hostile to that all the time. Thats pretty obvious.
     
  7. sleeping jiva

    sleeping jiva Member

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    jesus: yes, when u read about Krishna consciousness from Prabhupada, he doesn't say, hey let's turn everybody into Krishna by force, or let's make it a state law, no. It is said that one out of million understands this science, you yurself has no knowledge about this teachings you thought that we don't accept other Gods. It is said that this world can't be turned in devotees only. We are not naive. We are saying, hey, this is real happiness, come with us, some hear some not, it is not our principle to have lot of followers, no this would be materialistic approach. I got million devotees, therefore it is the proof of my teaching. lol. It exists. Religion is like that. But our primal task is to serve Krishna, not materialistic dream. I believe there's no hatred in me against materialistic people. Like Prabhupada, when u listen to his recordings, he laughs, but not mockingly with compassion. He understands their ignorance.

    haribol!

    jailmate: keep your beautiful hair growing
     
  8. sleeping jiva

    sleeping jiva Member

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    BBB: right on! good point about the lost of individualism in todays' society. Yeah, I feel that myself. that's why Krishna consciousness is so interesting for me. I don't feel I'm just a number. I believe I'm an original human being .
    Krishna consciousness is about your sincerity, you may be living in a temple, you may even propagate the message, you may shave your head, wear orange robes, but as soon as u don't enjoy it, if you don't experience the feeling of love, it's not much different from materialism.
     
  9. jailmate

    jailmate Plantenist

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    Duh, ah, what duzz everyone want?

    H A I R
     
  10. SvgGrdnBeauty

    SvgGrdnBeauty only connect

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    I've read this thread and I can see where jesusisamonkey is coming from...but I have to agree with BBB in the fact that aren't we already the same in the fact that we are mostly all equally brainwashed by our society to be so? Is it not better to be the same and serve God? The biggest thing that I like about Vaisnavism is that we know that all monotheistic religions are trying, in their own way, to serve God (regardless of whatever name He is called by)...and if you are doing that, the best you can, then I don't think any one group is anymore right. The problem is, in the Catholic church and in ISKCON among others, is the people who are falsly trying to make material gains on other's search for spirituality....also my other problem is those that think that only one way is the right way...I don't think so...

    But think what you may and worship as you may...as long as you are trying as best you can to love God and try and serve Him...then its good...chanting is good, I think, because by being open to chanting the names of the Lord, you are opening your heart and willingly wanting to know more...it doesn't matter what you call him, as long as you do...

    And that is the end of my constant point that I always bring up...and I am done...and I hope it was on topic enough...if not...sorry there...
     
  11. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Thats it Jiva - its only when we embrace the spiritual path that we can be who we really are!
     
  12. jesuswasamonkey

    jesuswasamonkey Slightly Tipsy

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    Please do not talk down to me, I am not talking down to you. I know that Hare Krishnas are allowed to worship whatever gods they choose, and I know that you don't use force or violence to enforce your beliefs. Even Naziism started with a peaceful political movement. Whenever you deem yourself "better" than others, you must be very careful lest you fall into the trap of hatred, exclusion, and percieved superiority.

    All I am saying is that you should accept all the people on this planet as brothers and sisters, regardless of their ideology. If you truly have faith, then you have no reason to fear being misled.

    As for "normal" people excluding others, some of the more emotionally unbalanced ones will, but from my own experience, most people are perfectly happy to accept you as a human being regardless of the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the music you listen to, or even your religion or spiritual beliefs. A lot of people just "go with the flow" in areas they don't consider to be vitally important simply because they would rather spend their energies elsewhere.

    Tell me, which is more "Maya", a man who wears "normal" clothes because he isn't really fashion-concious, or a man who judges all who wear "normal" clothes to be spiritually bankrupt?

    As I said earlier, you can believe what you want, but when you practice exclusion you do in fact harm others. Emotional ties between human beings are real, and it is a very sad thing when those vital ties are broken by a difference in beliefs.
     
  13. jailmate

    jailmate Plantenist

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    Uhh kan believe this seeker uv duh truth:
    It all started when it all iz, waz, willbe.
    then it luuked like a vibratin hair,
    one hair thingy created one space,
    then it moved in relation 2 dat space
    and created time, then it became tangled
    when Einstein tried 2 comb it out only it got
    denser and dreaded into the reality we(me?)
    see within and without.
    In wit duh Dreadz and out wit duh HareHare
     
  14. jesuswasamonkey

    jesuswasamonkey Slightly Tipsy

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    Haha, Jailmate.

    I'm not sure if you're insane, wise, or just trying to be funny.

    Perhaps all three.

    Peace bro, keep growin' that hair.
     
  15. SvgGrdnBeauty

    SvgGrdnBeauty only connect

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    But we aren't any better than anyone else...we're all just trying to do the best we can...we're all trying to do the best that we can...for the people here in this thread...the best that we can is trying to serve God...and to exclude others and be unkind wouldn't be right...in fact I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that that would be maya...

    I just think that we need to be a bit more aware of the bigger picture...the minor things can be different...the most likely will be... To me, the bigger picture is that we are part and parcle of God (call Him Krishna, Allah, Jahova, Rama, Vishnu, whatever you like) and that we just need to do the best we can to be decent human being and treat others with love and kindness and what have you.....chanting helps me be closer to Him and serve Him and find happiness...but it might not be the way of other's...and that's ok...
     
  16. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    Krishna Consciousness is a path of love. Everyone is a brother or sister, since all are part of Krishna.
    NAZI's never started with a peaceful political movement. Read 'Mien Kampf' if you don't believe me. And Hitler's S.A. brownshirts - were they peaceful? And what is it you see in Krishna Consciousness that has any resemblance?

    What you say about 'normal' people accepting all association is not right. I am sure everyone regards certain others as not very desirable company. You criricize nazi's - do you want to spend your time with them? I doubt it. Similarly, one with no interest in films, for example, is not likely to want to hang out with film buffs.

    Many people 'go with the flow' because they simply see no other path to be pursued. And often, the flow leads them precisely nowhere.

    I also think you are under some illusion as regards the way devotees dress. Many continue to wear ordinary western clothes, and don't shave the head - as George Harrison said 'plainclothes devotees'. And no one is judging anyone 'spiritually bankrupt' because of the way they dress. In an exteme case - eg. a person clad in expensive furs, one would be right perhaps to feel this was offensive. But look at the time, money and rescources wasted on fashion, which ultimatly is only vanity, and think about the third world.

    Once again - nobody is excluded from Krishna Consciousness.Even those who think of Krishna in a negative way are following it to some degree!
     
  17. SvgGrdnBeauty

    SvgGrdnBeauty only connect

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    Oi...is that what he meant by "normal" clothes...? Why did I think he meant something else? Oh....ummm....Well...I do agree with BBB on that respect^...carry on all...lol
     
  18. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    I assume thats what was meant! no doubt I'll be corrected if I'm wrong:)

    Thanks for your input.

    Hari Om.
     
  19. SvgGrdnBeauty

    SvgGrdnBeauty only connect

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    [​IMG]
    The Lord descends whenever there is a decline in religious principles. Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are all one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead (BG 4.7)
     
  20. ChiefCowpie

    ChiefCowpie hugs and bugs

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    Los Angeles, June 26, 1975


    Prabhupada: So you have given up the Vaisnava-sadacara for business selling. So you can be dangerous for that.
    Devotee (1): But we have also maintained the Vaisnava-sadacara. They didn't tell us...
    Prabhupada: That's all right. You do that. But they do not see whether you are maintaining.
    Devotee (1): But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on sankirtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacaris in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.
    Prabhupada: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.
    Devotee (1): It's true, because of my birth in this...
    Prabhupada: So how they can follow you?
    Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupada, that these are some problems.
    Prabhupada: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaisnava acara. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.
    Devotee (2): But we have done that for five years, and no one here listened to us at all.
    Prabhupada: So why you are anxious to listen... You... Let them not listen. You do your own duty.
    Devotee (2): We had no duty. They gave us nothing to do. They would not recognize our qualities, as we understand, even of, say Krsna consciousness.
    Prabhupada: So what can I do?
    Devotee (2): Well, you can make statements on certain of these things so that when they hear them, their ignorance will be dispelled.
    Prabhupada: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.
    Devotee (1): Not court, simply...
    Prabhupada: No, no.
    Devotee (2): That would be fine.
    Devotee (1): Okay.
    Prabhupada: Before me. You are saying something. They may say something else. So brothers together, we sit down together, and bring this...
    Devotee (2): All right. But we have some, also, questions that don't require that. These are philosophical questions. For instance, in Krsna Book there is a statement that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now you have asked that we go and spread Krsna consciousness to the scientific community.
    Prabhupada: So everyone is servant. What is the question of four billion? Krsna's servant...
    Devotee (2): No, Ugrasena, King Ugrasena, that when he was on the planet, he had four billion personal servants.
    Prabhupada: That's all right. He is always the master. He... The Krsna is the only master.
    Devotee (2): Not Krsna. No. King Ugrasena, Prabhupada. Not Krsna. King Ugrasena. The statement is that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now, we have gone and tried to spread to the scientific community. And if we say to them, "There was a king whose name was Ugrasena. He had four billion personal servants," they laugh and say, "What did they do for toilets? What did they do for food? Where did they live?"
    Prabhupada: So you want to preach this particular portion and no other portion?
    Devotee (1): No. We want to... We want to know if the story has an allegorical meaning rather than a literal translation, or that King Ugrasena who was a man who lived five thousand years ago and had four billion bodyguards, or whether the stories within the Bhagavatam, apart from some of them being actual, are allegorical stories. Such as the story of Krsna and Balarama chopping off the the eighty-eight...
    Prabhupada: All right. You can give up that portion. You can take other portion.
    Devotee (2): We don't mean to give it up.
    Devotee (1): We don't mean to give it up.
    Devotee (2): We're saying how can we say to them...
    Prabhupada: Anyone, anyone... Why you are going to preach that portion to a professor?
    Devotee (1): No. When they read your books, they pose that question to us.
    Devotee (2): They read it. They say to us.
    Devotee (1): And unless we can answer that question...
    Prabhupada: They ask to only you, but they never ask to us.
    Revatinandana: They have. Sometimes they ask me.
    Prabhupada: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that(?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.
    Devotee (1): But then because so many things they have to accept on faith without knowing, it then weakens their faith as to what they should accept and why should they accept Krsna, who they can't see any more than King Ugrasena's four billion bodyguards.
    Prabhupada: Don't accept. Don't accept.
    Devotee (2): But we want them to accept. The point is, if we say to a scientific man, "There was four billion," and if our statement is wrong...
    /Prabhupada: But our position is that if some portion we cannot understand, it is our incapability.
    Devotee (2): That is all right. But since we are...
    Prabhupada: That's all. Unless we have got this faith we cannot use these Puranas. In the Puranas there are many such statements.
    Devotee (2): Yes, but we just want to understand.
    Prabhupada: Therefore many people, they do not accept Puranas. So what can be done?
    Devotee (2): We're just trying to understand it because we've never dealt with Puranas before. We have been your disciples. But when we present this to the scientific community, because you have said that if one word is wrong, the whole philosophy is wrong, so they will say to us...
    Prabhupada: So let them take it and throw out, don't read it. That's all.
    Devotee (2): But then they discredit the Bhagavad-gita. We don't like that when they discredit the Bhagavad-gita.
    Prabhupada: Why? They don't believe. What is the use?
    Devotee (2): Well, because we also want to know how did they have four billion personal servants just so that we'll be able to convince them and also...
    Prabhupada: If a king has four billion servants, so it is not very astonishing. Why do you think that a king shall have only four servants?
    Devotee (2): Well, there's only two billion people on the planet right now.
    Prabhupada: That's all right.
    Devotee (2): So where did they all go?
    Prabhupada: I say you don't believe, you don't take it. Why you are insisting on that point? If you don't believe, you don't take it. If you don't believe the whole book or the whole society, then who forbids you?
    Devotee (2): We were hoping that there are some things which can be improved, because they have not been set up by you.
    Prabhupada: No. You cannot improve. Whatever we are, we are.
    Devotee (2): Why can we not improve it?
    Prabhupada: No. There is no possibility.
    Devotee (2): Then what is the use of action?
    Prabhupada: Action, whatever action we can do by chanting Hare Krsna, that's all.
    Devotee (2): But we also have to make varnasrama society or farms or businesses.
    Prabhupada: That, when we shall do, we shall see to it.
    Devotee (2): But we are doing it. We are.
    Devotee (1): We are doing it now, and that's the question...
    Prabhupada: So do it in your own way.
    Devotee (2): We don't want to. We want to do everything Krsna's way.
    Prabhupada: Stop it. Stop it. I say stop it. You have come to me for my advice. I say you stop it.
    Devotee (2): Then, we say, what should we do?
    Prabhupada: You should do your business. That's all. Earn money and enjoy.
    Devotee (2): No, I mean what should we do Krsna consciously?
    Prabhupada: You give up Krsna consciousness, I say. That is my advice.
    Devotee (2): Why should we do that?
    Prabhupada: Then that I cannot say.
    Devotee (1): Isn't there a middle of the road?
    Prabhupada: If you are finding so many faults, you give it up.
    Devotee (1): No. We're not finding fault.
    Prabhupada: Then there is no other advance, alternative. No alternative. Either you accept or reject it.
    Devotee (1): We accept, but we would like some instruction on...
    Prabhupada: No. I have no such knowledge to convince you.
    Devotee (1): No, we accept Krsna consciousness philosophy...
    Prabhupada: That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject.
    Devotee (1): We accept.
    Devotee (2): We want to apply it.
    Devotee (1): We want to apply it to the world as it is now.
    Prabhupada: No no. You cannot. You are not authorized.
    Devotee (1): Well, who is authorized?
    Prabhupada: The authorized... You are not authorized. Who is authorized, that is not your business.
    Devotee (2): Then what does it mean to become disciple?
    Prabhupada: Disciple, if you don't like, give it up.
    Devotee (2): We do like it.
    Prabhupada: You have already given up.
    Devotee (2): If we didn't like it, we would not come here.
    Prabhupada: No, no. You have already given up. My disciples do not keep so many hair.
    Devotee (2): Many of your disciples do.
    Prabhupada: No. I don't accept that. You just this one circle, little. But those who are keeping big hairs, they are rejected from my disciples.
    Devotee (2): All right. That is clearing some things up.
    Prabhupada: Yes.
    Devotee (2): This is what we want to know.
     

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