hare krishna

This can't be right. Otherwise, a person who had heard the name of the Lord only once, and never read, chanted or done any other sadhana would know Krishna as Intimately as His close Devotees.

I don't challenge Krishna, sleeping Jiva - I may challenge your mental conceptions about Krishna and related philosophy, but thats quite another thing. And I don't do so out of egotism or some desire to win points in some supposed contest, but because as one who first chanted Hare Krishna more than thirty years ago, I wish to share with others what I have realized.You have started this thread, a public forum for discussion of these matters, so please, try to understand that to contradict your idea of things is not to challenge Sri Krishna.

 

I am glad that you are sincere in seeking to surrender to you Guru!

Sometimes, we may be able to directly be in the physical prescence of Realized persons, and at other times we feel the separation - but know that God is everywhere, and can be realized anywhere. He is never distant from us, but closer than the closest, closer than a heartbeat.

The path of Karma Yoga is a great path; it allows us to bring all our activities into relation with the Lord, to offer all to Him in Love. You are right to trust your heart - often, that is how we can find that truth which remains when all else collapses.And often the heart is a surer guide than the mind!

Blessings

BBB.

 

You misinterpreted everything I said. There's no such thing as idea of Krishna, or representation of Krishna. My idea? what is "my idea"? Where you can find "my idea" in this forum?

 

Everything you say that is not a quote is your idea of things - your understanding of Krishna and of Srila Prabhupada.

If I misunderstand then please enlighten me as to what you really meant. But I've already said what I think - there is a difference between Krishna and the concept or idea of Krishna in the mind of the ordinary, ie un-realized person.So please explain how there can be no difference -

Let me put like this - a picture of Krishna is not krishna. This is obvious, because the picture can be destroyed, reproduced or changed according to human will or caprice. With death, the picture will no longer be available to the person who in life used to look at it.

Also' I know that Sri Krishna lives in my heart - but not a particular image formed by human hands!

On 'spititual sky' inscense pack is a picture of Sri Krishna - millions of which must wind up in people's garbage cans, or worse.

 

Oooh! I'm so happy to see more different imputs kicking around in here!

That's really all I have to say (seriously...)...I'm more the observer than anything else...I don't know anymore than what I take in...and I am glad to have more teachers and points of view Welcome to the group BlackBillBlake (well welcome back to you) and Jedi!

 

Thanks for the welcome back - never really been away!!

Love

BBB

 

Well...than I guess I should say welcome out of lurk-dom

 

I'm sorry. You're right, everything except quotes are my own blabberings and therefore not very objective things, but I believe I'm not saying anything against Prabhupada, what is contradicting his teachings. If it's so, I'm willing to accept my mistake, not otherwise. Therefore I'm saying where are my ideas? what have I said different from Prabhupada's teachings?
It seems to me that me and SvGrdnbeauty were the only people who quoted Prabhupada's books in this forum, so compared to others, I don't think that I'm pushing my own explanations. First criticize them, ok?
Forget all about me. I'm a sleeping jiva.- why would I give myself this name if I wasn't aware of my deep ignorance?

But I was reading very recently a lecture of Prabhupada and he said that Deities in the temple are not representations of Krishna, they are Krishna. This is the difference, so yea, even the picture is Krishna Himself. Mantra, maybe you heard it before, mahamantra is Krishna Himself, Bhagavadgita and all the sastras, they're not representations -they're all Krishna Himself. everything is spiritual, there's no such a thing as material, everything is spiritual. It's only coverd by maya -that's why we think we are independent from Krsna. But as soon the material objects, or desires are transcended into devotional service to Lord Krishna they revive their spiritual platform. For example prasadam, you have desire to eat a good food, so instead of satisfying yourself, you offer it to Krishna. Thus your desire becomes a good desire. The idea of Krishna doesn't exist, also representation doesn't exist, it's all Krishna. If people don't understand Him, He wants to purify them, so He sends maya, which brings suffering, thus they understand and surrender to Him. If you're afriad to be misled by cheaters, read Bhagavadgita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada -it's so easy. Just surrender to God, you don't need anything else.

Of course, if you say This is Krishna and do something what is against the scriptures, you're nothing but a cheater. Hope, you see my point now. hare krishna!

 

IN MY BOOKS the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

Srila Prabhupada

 

I would have prefered it if you had addresed the points in my previous reply in your own words. I can't see how the idea of Krishna in the mind of an unrealized, even anti-divine person can be the actual form of krishna. If so, they'd only have to hear the name and all would immediately become clear - they would have full realization. Reading of Shastra, of Prabhupada or anyone else would become irrelevant, as would effort at realization, beacause they'd have it already.

The Image of the Deity in the temple is not just any picture of krishna. If it were, it could be treated with the same contempt I mentioned with regard to pictures of Krishna on inscense packets. And I'm sure you'll agree that can't be right.

 

I would have prefered it if you had addresed the points in my previous reply in your own words. I can't see how the idea of Krishna in the mind of an unrealized,

idea of Krishna is a nonsense, it doesn't exist. there's no idea of Krishna. Krishna is real, man!


even anti-divine person can be the actual form of krishna. If so, they'd only have to hear the name and all would immediately become clear - they would have full realization. Reading of Shastra, of Prabhupada or anyone else would become irrelevant, as would effort at realization, beacause they'd have it already.

have it? noone has Krishna, noone has realization of Krishna. Krishna has all! Krishna is the Supreme Proprietor, he is the owner of our realization. But anyhow, I didn't say this.

The Image of the Deity in the temple is not just any picture of krishna. If it were, it could be treated with the same contempt I mentioned with regard to pictures of Krishna on inscense packets. And I'm sure you'll agree that can't be right.

I kept the package from incense, I kept even the package my sister have from a Henna hair color. I would never throw it away. I never read that it in Bhagavadgita, I just can't thow it away. Deities are Krishna, they're not representation. But as you said when somebody claims to know Krishna eventhough in his talks he's against the scripture, he's a cheater -that's not Krishna. I agree with you on this one. I'm just against the words you used.

 

Then there can be no false idea or mental image of Krishna, so no need to read the Purana to find out about Him. Because whatever we think will be the supreme absolute Para-Brahman.

If no one has realization of Krishna, why does Srila Prabhupada speak of 'realized souls' and why write a book called 'The Science of Self-Realization'?

Had not Prabhupada become realized?

 

I didn't say that, why do think I said that? you know forget it. we say the same thing. I told you that the both ways are equally important -within and without.
Noone has realization of Krishna. Yes, there are realised souls, but they don't have realization. how can you have realization? Realization is not material so you can have it. That's what I was saying.

 

Lets say one can bacome realized. That doesn't mean one 'posesses' realization as with some materiel thing. Great Souls are established in Brahman, in realization.

 

Yes, see that is the only grey area, I think. When you read Bhahavad-Gita As It Is...it tells you many things to do in order to find realization...then at the same time, Srila Prabhupada and others would say that all you have to do is chant...and you will come to those things...

..but at the same time Krishna says that no one will truly know what He is...

Wow, you know what, nevermind...I think I just confused myself...and made no sense... scratch the above...

And I have to agree with the thing about the pictures...I don't think that the pictures are exactly Krishna, that's like saying that each crucifix is exactly Jesus...instead I think that they are representations to help us learn about Him and to remind us to remember Him in our everyday lives...

 

Yes, you are absolutely right. You have to hear the name and everything will be realized, just like the sun's luminous reflection is seen as the mirror is turned toward the sun.

However, we are now dirty, therefore, we have to keep on chanting his name, calling him to clean us up, then he will come and clean us up and then we can see him.

If you want to clean it faster, read shastras and talk to the mirrors that are clean and they will give you instructions on how to clean yourself.

 

There is no false image of krishna. Every image is his, however if you want to know how he truly is, what his qualities are, what he actually is orginally, then you have to let him tell you that, until then you cannot understand him.

Some people worship him as Narayana, some others worship him as hayagriva and some others see him as Rama.

The actual image of him is ofcourse the beautiful cowherd boy playing his charming flute.

If you want to worship him as shiva go ahead... however, do not consider shiva to be vishnu himself... because shiva is another living entity , but he is not like you and me because he is a great devotee of the lord, therefore he is always worthy of worship.

 

To say there is no false image of Krishna can't be right. It would be easy for an unscrupulous or ignorant person to misrepresent Krishna to another, who would then form a false image in their mind. This is the problem. for example, with the 'bogus gurus' who changed Srila Prabhupadas original texts.

To the realized person, everything is Krishna, all forms are His - they are in Him and He is in them. But to the everyday, relativistic consciousness of most people, it is hard to see Krishna in any way at all, and all but impossible to see Him in forms of falible, weak and egotistical persons for example, or in the evil person.

It is true that if we want to know God, we must be open to Him. Such openess is not easy to attain. One of the main stumbling blocks in the way of its attainment is an overly dogmatic attitude, or cleaving to a too narrow a mental conception of the 'how He truly is'.

It is also true that meerly having read what God is and what He is like does not give realization by itself.

 

I was talkiing about the images like you've posted above, not images one forms in his mind. I don't know anything, I'm a lost soul completely controled by three modes of material nature. Prabhupada's books are cool, you can learn everything from them. U can see by yourself then, who's going to cheat you. The thing with the fallen gurus was that they killed Prabhupada, they wanted to leave him out. They changed his books and acted against his instructions, therefore I would study his original books in any case. He was a first class devotee and noone can be compared to him in this age, I'm not saying that from egotism, it's a fact. When this person left very precise instructions in his books, lectures and so on, we should trust him totally. Not just pick something and then exploit it for our own sake. That's why I'm glad that chie Cow Pie called me a parrot, because that's what the fallen gurus weren't. We should all just parrot the Bhagavadgita. It's just like that. That's a surrender. surrender to this flawless philosophy, surrender to Prabhupada -a first class devotee. If you're afraid, if you think it's a dogma, or manipulation, then read his books anyhow and try to understand philosophically. But y'know the thing is as soon as your attitude is ok I'm going to challenge, you won't be able to surender. The one who wants to find a flaw he will find it. But I'm asking you what pushed this desire to challenge? Ask yourself that question. Isn't that dogma too?

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

Squee! That was in HAIR!

*clears throat* sorry, continue.