Guncrazy USA

I have used a gun to preserve my life twice. The attacker was not a human. I live much of the time in a little cabin in the Alaska bush. On two different occasions I have been forced to shoot bears. One was a bear that saw me as a great spring wake-up meal (bears are VERY hungery when they wake-up in the spring). the other was a bear that had been wounded by a bow hunter (I will be polite and not say what I think about the hunter).

It would not matter if it was a bear or a human. I know that not being able to defend myself can mean death, I want where I am free to take action. Not some place that requires me to call someone, and just hope I don't die before they get there.

White Scorpian, you just stay in France (you don't say that is where you are, but it is obvious by your willingness to depend on others to save your ass).

 

Balbus, congratulations I actually for once agree with all youve said in the last few posts.

Youre right about about the pro gun people - they have no deeper agenda than to say I want a gun because its my right to have one.

You also poinbted out excellently that house robbery is a vacuous example for them to use.

White scorpion pointed out that they also have the argument "we need em to chase out an oppressive government" but they have eaten shit since WW2 and not a single gun has been fired in protest. Infact these people represent the NRA and it has been proven many times the links with the KKK

I think that far from being anti government, these people are infact pro - government, whichever government so long as its one that supports the right for menn to bear arms. They have no reason for needing those guns except for if some people who represent a faction they dont like come into town and start misbehavin perhaps they can muster up a posse and calm things down is what I suspect.

Scorpion is right - the rightwing element in these forums has had it their own way too long - If you really want change and carry those guns to oust government with - then why hasnt the NRA ever said "OK this is it boys - its time to hunt politicians" if not the NRA why not any of you ?

I post my riot thread and most of you right wingers condemn it - hahahaha pity - the European revolution is being won by the people with no guns against the police and army who are loaded to the hilt with weaponry

pro-gun lobbyists suck both pipes

who the fuck cares what you think - no-ones arguing that you dont need guns to defend against animals we are talking about guns used agaist humans - in cities that are supposed to house civillised people

 

Well dang, they done found us out. OK Yank, Dirk, turn in your guns. The Clown figured out that its all about rights. We don't need those rights. We don't need guns, or free speech or a speedy trial or to be innocent until found guilty.

So, starting tomorrow, we're all going to be... French.

Adieu. (just practising)

 

All right anti-folks. Instead of jumping up and down, then flaily your arms about while you trying to think up some insult to make against those of us that own guns, why don't you provide solutions?

When I shot the wounded bear, it had lurked around my cabin for three days. It had a 4cm hole in its shoulder, and was hanging around because it could not get food. There was no phone service, or way to contact anyone for about a month (when the plane comes with supplies). What would you do without a gun? Feeding the bear is against the law, and really, really stupid. Do you think I should shoot the bear? That would mean I have to have the right to own a gun. If I get a gun to protect myself, why shouldn't everyone else? (There is a photo of the wounded bear standing by my porch posted in my gallery)

A few weeks ago a young man burst into a home of people he had never met (Here in Anchorage). He attacked the family inside, and when a teen-age boy tried to stop the intruder, he was drug outside and shot in the head. This case has not gone to trial, so I don't want to just guess what caused the man to break into the house. He did not know the person he shot. If the mother had a gun, I believe she would have had the right to kill the intruder in order to save her son. To have that right, she must also have the right to have the gun in the first place, just as I have the right to have a gun to protect myself from animals. It is the same principle.

It is the RIGHT to own a gun. (Kudos to Zoomie)

 

Thanks Cookie I appreciate it, but that was tongue in cheek toward both sides. Keep your hunting rifles up there in Alaska. I want to stop seeing bodies in the street here in Baltimore. If it means you legal gun owners have to suffer through a police state long enough to get the illegal guns out of the hands of dirtbags, I guess you gotta suck it up, huh?

 

That bear - Did it happen to be black BTW? And how many of the people that you guncrazy Americans have "defended" yourselves against just happened to be black? What? Oh, I see. You've all squeezed into the phone booth again to get an appropriate answer from Southern Command.

I think running through the posts here, and seeing the constant xenophobic commentary, I would hazard to guess that a fair proportion of your "victims" which you call "robbers" have had the only misfortune of possessing a different skin color to yours when within your range of fire.

Ron is right. I smell coneheads in here, and I think Balbus realizes too, but is polite with you because he knows you people are like herpes and won't go away.

 

Try this on for size. In Alaska, if a bear is black, then white people can hunt them. If the bear is white, then ONLY brown people can hunt them. No kidding. (White bears are Polar Bears)

Your argument is too silly to dignify with a serious response. I bet your voice cracked in hysteria as your were yelling at the computer. You should try using reason instead of insults - for a change.

Most gun crime in America is done by people acting against others of the same race.

 

LOL (at you, not with you). Sorry to disappoint you , but I'm surrounded by life and opportunity here... not ice.

One thing that I've noticed about the right-wing element in here (all your declines, cracked eggs, hogs, etc.) is that you are all deliberately illiterate.

It's a very simple title this thread : "Guncrazy USA".

Not guncrime.

I knew what I was doing when I wrote it, because I know how tight-arse script-based yor faction is.

I gave you all some leg-room to have your say, and now I am sitting back laughing at you, because you have nothing which is your own to say.

Most of you now have to check what you write with one of your "superiors" before posting it, and the rest who are foolhardy, will get a firm ticking off from your cult's "big brother" if you end up posting something that will damage the NRA's cause.

So, sweet little cookie jars likes to shoot the bears, does he?

I wonder how that sounds to anyone "neutral" reading this thread.

Nice creatures bears.

They ARE indeed dangerous, especially when you go around "invading" their land.

But you see folks, the bear does NOT need a gun.

The bear is NOT a coward.

Bear uses what "nature" gave bear.

But some people just decided to come along and shoot it.

I guess you can get a lot of dollars on the black market for its hide.

No folks, there's no voice yelling behind my computer.

Just a head shaking from side to side in sadness.

It's amazing that just after a few people got banned from this thread that suddenly, out of the blue, new guests with sweet little girly names joined this forum, and headed straight for this thread to tell us all just how much guns were some kind of pre-requisite of civil liberty.

Get a life. Who the hell do you think you are kidding?

 

Pitt

“I know you are not for an all out ban but you are for very heavy restrictions. You seem to believe these restrictions will alieviate some of the violence in society.”

And once again your statement seems to indicate you do not read my posts.

I’ve stated many times that my proposals for the regulation of guns were to be introduced as part of a holistic approach covering many areas of society.

And one of the important things to be addressed is this attitude of threat and intimidation that I’ve raised and which - as I’ve pointed out - you amongst other will not discuss.

**

The other things you raise in your post again they are issues that have been rather extensively been covered already and I’d rather not get side tracked again.

If you insist I’ll reply but I’d rather move forward than once again going back, it just seems like another trick to derail the thread.

 

Cookiecache

“All right anti-folks. Instead of jumping up and down, then flaily your arms about while you trying to think up some insult to make against those of us that own guns, why don't you provide solutions?”

Well cook you could start by reading what has been posted already, it is clear from what you’ve posted so far that you haven’t.

As I’ve said this is one of the problems with this debate it’s not only that some pro-gunners dismiss arguments out of hand or lie about having refuted things when they haven’t (which they do) it is that some of them just don’t care about what posted that doesn’t fit in exactly with their own views.

**

For example you said -

“We are only free in America because we have guns in our homes to fend-off our government”

This fallacy in my view has been covered at length a few times now, rather than just blurting it out why didn’t you read the counter arguments and address those?

Is it because you haven’t a clue what those counter arguments are, don’t care what they are or know you haven’t got anything to say about them?

The same with the ‘rights’ argument it’s been covered just saying again ‘it’s a right’ doesn’t actually answer the arguments already set out against that view.

**

The thing is if you don’t know what the counter arguments are, why not, how have you come to your position if you haven’t weighted up the alternatives?

If you do know the arguments then what are your counter arguments against them?

**

 

I thought the Grand Poobah said it was Mexico first since they posed the biggest threat. It was 2 days for Mexico and 10 minutes for Canada unless somebody dropped a peice of trash then we knew we would be in for fight in Canada and that it would take an hour instead.

 

Pitt

PS -

What ‘social programs’ are you talking about?

 

nice to see you back Yank

So are we going to get some real replies or snide asides?

**

 

People in The USA have always owned firearms......................

It is certainly legit to question US gun culture, but its not some recent development that all of a sudden people have guns.

The gun problem, is a gun crime problem.
If there is no gun crime, then there is no gun problem.

The USA already has firearms regulation on a state by state basis. Regulation is
traditional. We are takling about fine tuning existing regulation.

Firearms are a Country-City issue with residents of those districts having
way diferent experiences and opinions on firearms.

 

I am not sure if I would delcare that the truth but I can say historically that we did win our freedom from British control through force. When our goverment right about arms came into play it was to secure the people against the prospect of other attacks, an insurance policy if you will. Im not sure if it was a security against the goverment itself.

This title was addressed its either used as a flame insult or it needs to be compared to something. When compared, backed with facts and figures, when asked you just spin round and round. You are the one that brought into play about other countries and when the facts diputed your claims you them ran like a coward behind its not this and its not that.

Your comment is easy to defeat, we did use what nature provided man, the ability to use his mind to build tools and to hunt. We started off with our bare hands, then clubs, spears, arrows and so on. Nature supplied us the ability to advance just as nature allows any species to become extinct.

This is one area we did agree on but maybe not the actual plan but still the idea that regulations, being held accountable for your actions, education, training, social programs, ect.

This was starting to take shape in another thread but instead it was easier to complain here.

 

Pitt

This is why we are at an impasse, not only do you not take any notice of what I say you don’t even take any notice of what you say.

In your last post to me you say “the reasons people promote gun bans are to lower crime and murder”

This is only just after you have said “I know you are not for an all out ban”

**

This means that rather than reasonable debate I have to continually correct what you say or explain things that have already been explained.

So once more –

- I’ve stated many times that my proposals for the regulation of guns were to be introduced as part of a holistic approach covering many areas of society -

You’re not actually asking me to explain, once again, what that means are you?

**

 

Oh come on, Pitt you cannot really think this lame excuse works do you?

The post was directed at me the only quote was my post why talk of a ban at all if it wasn’t directed at me?

I’m not one of these ‘people’ that is promoting a ban, so how can I speak for them?

Again this just seems like another misdirection trick and I had to laugh as I’m sure I’m not the only person to notice that once again you are using your famous fake ‘righteous indignation’ to get out of having an honest debate.

And what direct question are you taking about?

**

 

Intelligent and independant people do not like to have things taken away from them that they have been allowed to have for hundreds of years. Intelligent and independant people realize that the more rules and regulations and control that human beings are required to live under, the unhappier they are, and the unhappier human beings become in their situations, the more violent they will become. This is not only human nature, but the very core of ALL nature in some form. Take a wild animal or a plant out of it's regular environment and put it in one of manipulation and control and it will either fight or die or give up.

We have lost BALANCE. Not one person here has any. It's either all or nothing. A constant battle of wills where nobody wins and everybody loses. I propose that you can be the type of person who has no interest in guns and still be pro choice and I am ridiculed. But this IS balance.

I have been threatened with guns SEVERAL times in my life. I was unarmed, but those "guncrazy" individuals did not REALLY want to hurt anyone, just intimidate. I am white, and they were ALL white. Nothing to do with racism, just alcoholism.
So how about if we add another law and ban alcohol? (sarcasm)

Shit slinging between different countries is stupid. All countries represented here have their troubles. We are ALL controlled far too much. Frustration is rampant. Thus this childish arguement.

Speaking for THIS country, and using an analogy: when you build a large building you MUST have a solid foundation. Otherwise the building will settle and structural damage must be constantly patched. The building will not only never be right, but will go downhill over time. Our society is built on a bad foundation. The manmade rules were set to constantly change after the game was already started. All the rules and laws and bans and whatnot are only patches on an already flawed building. No BALANCE. Human nature is not balanced. We seem to need direction at all times. No one seems to grasp the simple concepts of right and wrong. If we did, there would not be so much arguing. OR killing. OR crime.

The shit slinging never ends here. But all you accomplish is to show the world plainly why we can never be anything but imperfect humans who must be told what they are allowed or not allowed to do like small children or wild animals. And in being told what to do and being controlled as efficiently as possible, we become the thing we are told not to be...
Has anybody ever heard of the ridiculous notion of TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF? What if we ALL took responsibility for ourselves and our actions INSTEAD of telling others how to run their lives? Frightening thought isn't it? To actually have to live with your self and look at right and wrong every day... To actually RESPECT others instead of DEMANDING that they respect us. What would become of us???? Oh horrors. Nobody capable of this? What are you afraid of? And what will you do about it?

 

See now its getting tough, I only read the dirty parts!

My question I asked and only 1 answered and I will address that in a moment but again I put this out there for an answere from the other parties that feel the gun is the problem...

Balbus:

Sorry to assume this was not fact, it means alot more to me.

That is a choice I feel everyone should have, Im actually happy with your choice, there is nothig worse than a person not wanting a gun and having one around.

This was not a case of attempted property theft.

We all have different means of security systems in place and a simple search will show a security system is only good at keeping honest people honest. If a person desires entry it slows them down but once in it serves little to no use, unless it can effectively stop an intruder. Now Im not not talking about killing but there are means of chemicals, electronic devices and ect that have serious effects on inturders.

Again not a robber and if further detail was needed the window broke in an attempt to open the window from forcing the frame but the window broke in the process.

Again not a robber of items.

Oh just the hardwood floors and tile floors and wood stairs. I only wish that while sleeping I was fully jared awake and could process that info better but being half in half out from tid bits of strange noises it was almost too late to do what was needed.

911 was called but I lived atleast 15 minutes away on average, lights left out as I did not know what was fully going on.

To remote for it to have been heard if I did have one and most alarms are ignored or hated and good only after the fact for information unless there is a program like you had in place.

Why enter in the first place? Why do what he had done in his past? Why let him loose after prior convictions of his past?

He intended on a robbery but not items just a persons innocence.


This person staked out our home after we had hired him for some work around the house through a company in the phone book. We did not know of his background. He knew I was going on a trip for 3 days but he did not know it was cancelled.

Im will never know what would have happend that night had I not been there, had I desired to see what it was that woke me up for sure. I cant honestly say I heard the glas just later assumed that is what first woke me. The walking the creaking could have been my kid but something made me think differently. Why did we call 911 when we did not know for sure what was going on? Why did I grab a gun not knowing for sure? I heard her start to scream and then she was muffled. That s what sent me into her room, why did I scream at him to get away from her? Why did he turn and come at me?

There are a million whys, but ifs, maybe could have, should have ect and alot was filled in after by the law enforcement that showed up, questioned, ect.

Balbus I thank you for addressing the question and your way might have worked too under ideal situations. I for one never thought I would ever need any sort of defense, I had what I had for fun. I liked to target shoot, I had done so since age 11. For many years it was hard for me to pick up a firearm. I sold all my guns and it was not until I recieved a letter that I could pick my handgun up from the police who had it as evidence all that time did I have a gun again. They never told me I could not have one and I could have had that one back alot sooner but never chose to ask about it.

I shoot again and hunt again and my kids both shoot for fun but hate the idea of hunting.

So this is why I agree there needs to be policy and programs in place, education and requirements as well as other things for people and firearms.

 

Ok so what about peoples right not to have some big asshole like you walkin around witth a gun huh ? what about their right to say I dont fuckin want guns in this society ???

Ahh fuck it for real I give up on this thread - people like this in the USA are 100% full on pure braindead morons - they really dont get the idea of freedom and responsibility - they really do deserve to live in the fuckin war zone that the USA is - its a criminal state - thank fuck that Europe at least has 80% of the western intelligensia living here - thank fuck our societies are political rather than criminal !

and they wonder why European revolutionb is gaining strength week in week out - and that the youth oppose vehemently the idea of the USA and its irresponsible deadheaded approach to politics - FUCK THE USA !!!!!!