Guncrazy USA

earthmother, I meant no disrespect to you or to the God of Abraham. My philiosophy has always been "Keep your God out of my life and I'll keep me out of your life." I simply haven ever seen the need to interject Jesus into every conversation, debate, discussion, negotiation and cookie recipe. I know it's been 2007 years butit's really getting old. I put that individual on ignore not because he's a thumper but because I believe he's another parody personality like Boss Hogg and is only meant to incite.

 

Perhaps Reverend Kane can shed some more "light" on the church's view on this matter. I am amazed that they kept so quiet through all the preceedings. I would have thought they would be the first to console the public after the tragedy. If there are any people of the cloth out there who would not mind joining this social issue debate, you are welcome to do so, but bear in mind the debate often gets heated, so open-mindedness is the order of the day.

BTW DP enjoy your weekend, and thanks for the references. See you soon.

 

LOL It's ok, I have had my back scratched before.

 

sorry I was going to take the piss out of all this latest bit of guncrazy but I wont bother -

 

I am the pink panther!
who stoll my image??

 

Yes sir that sure has been done by the anti gun lobby party in here not to mention the constant ability to ignore facts not rumor and personal conversations. The anti gun lobby party here too are fantastic at tossing out little slams about people with comments like "

but yet they had nothing real to add themselves.

I stopped bothering when you take the time to support the issue with links to many indendent sites with figures and then it is ignored then later only bits and pieces are used while injecting thier own beliefs into the facts.

The bottom line is that in the middle of the night you are forced out of a sound sleep because you hear the window downstairs being broken, you hear foot steps, your childs scream then its muffled who you gonna call? The man with flowers in his hair or that bastard with the gun to help???

 

oh dont be so dramatic - If you organised your society away from all these bullshit politicians and just took responsibility for your own affairs and took the time to learn about the people in your own street then you wouldnt have the need for your semi-automatic penis enhancers - you seem to think a big pair of balls should be made by smith & wesson
http://www.smith-wesson.com/

yank n burn the new toy from mattel with real testicles made by smith and wesson

 

Another great example of the anti gun lobby not able to provide an answere but rather toss out an insult and side step the question yet again! There is not a single gun ban country that has no violent crime, no break ins and lastly these same gun ban countries still issue thier police guns why?? Becuase they know guns work! So show me a country that offers no crime and no one in the country including the goverment that has guns and then you shall have proved your point but thus far the reality is you know you would be calling for a person with a gun just as fast as any other member here unless you had the means to stop the intruder yourself.

So stop your BS grow up, and seriously answere the question that was posted!

Infact all you anti-gun people what would you do if in that situation? If you dont believe in guns and dont own one how would you stop an armed person harming your family? I am very specific about my example becuase I have been there, so tell me what would you have done??

The bottom line is that in the middle of the night you are forced out of a sound sleep because you hear the window downstairs being broken, you hear foot steps, your childs scream then its muffled, you dash down the hall and look in to the childs room and see a dark figure over the bed bent over, you can see your child in bed thrashing around, you scream and the person lets go of your child, your child is screaming, he pulls an object from his jacket pocket and is turning toward you! You dont know what that object is, you feel deep down that unless you stop him he is going to kill you and harm the rest of the family and the police response time is about 10 minutes. WHAT DO YOU DO??? I know what I did and live with it daily, somedays worse than others and its been alot of years.

 

YankNBurn, I have noticed that 78% of the posts from the pro-gun lobby are composed of :"Great example of the anti-gun lobby not being able to provide an answer and sidestepping with insults instead." And then, as usual, the rest of the pro-gun lobby post is composed with the same unrelated retoric that has been regurgitated in this thread more often than a camel's dinner, rather than answering the ethical question of your lethal weapons.

Ronnie is absolutely right.

The anti-gun lobby is not on the defensive here. It's your aggressive society that is the subject of this thread. America is a major super-power and should be an example in this day and age to other nations.

Instead, more and more countries are turning away from America, because of its ongoing social problems which it refuses to address. If you, as a society do not seek to put your politicians into line and become more civil to each other and other nations of this earth, you will eventually become an isolated nation. Nobody wants that, because the majority of Americans are good people, but nevertheless, good people who have been misled and are so desperate to create some bit of history for their country that they live fervently in the past, with Boston tea parties, and colonizing fearsome kings who are after their muskets.

There are ways to have security for your house and family. There are ways to take care of dangerous animals on your land, etc, without having to result to firearms. There are ways of changing despotic governments without each person carrying a gun. All you guys have provided so far are lame excuses and statistics which are totally unrelated, because I am sorry, but none of the countries with gun bans that I know are even a smidgeon of a percentage as violent as the USA. Are you guys a bunch of professional comedians? How can you compare any European country to the Sodom and Gomorha of America where people feel safe only because they have a gun in their pocket?!? How can you call that an idealized society? What evidence do you need for that? Here's some evidence:

I don't need a gun.

You, obviously do!

To pretend otherwise is an illusion and a delusion, and just goes to show that the stereotypical image that the world has of the American who is blind to everything and all outside his beloved country is nothing else but a sad certainty.

 

Again the question was sidestepped! Im happy you live in the fantasy that no one in your country commits crimes against others but the stats prove you wrong.

The thread was about America being guncrazy but you all seem to use other countries as examples thus we support our stance that under your example it has not worked. When proided with facts you turn your heads and ignore the facts.

Are we violent here in the US perhaps but then aain we have a far greater mixing pot of people and beliefs to deal with here too. Im glad we are guncrazy too bad our goverment throught time has been not so happy to use them. Im sure alot of actions would never have happend had we taken a tough stance against others and also stayed nuetral but thats another topic.

 

Nothing was sidestepped YankNBurn.

Click right back to the very very beginning of this thread.

Have a good read of the title. It's not too big. It's nice and easy:

"Guncrazy USA"

There is nothing for any of us to sidestep. You have been doing the sidestepping, tango, waltz, and breakdancing from the very beginning, but are refusing to see that guns are unnecessary tools that are dangerous and harmful, and do NOT beling in the hands of civilians.

This thread is about getting rid of guns.

There is nothing for us to sidestep.

The only sidesteppers in here are the Boston crabs and their peashooters.

 

The title is an opinion based on what? You say in many posts compared to countries in Europe thus you now have something to base your opinion on. So in view the USA is guncrazy compared to Europe in your own statements. Without something to compare you can not have the statement. You can not say evil exists unless there is an alternative to compare it to to give it a title.


So yes you do side step the very direct question and the very direct question you posed has been answered over and over time and time again backed up with facts time and time again. Someday you might be able to answere my very direct question but I hope you never have to do so.

 

We are only free in America because we have guns in our homes to fend-off our goverment. Without guns we would be living under a real dictatorship. I read the comments from White Scorpian ridiculing the idea of commen people standing-up against troops while only being armed with simple firearms.

Dude, pull your head out of.... the sand. Look at how well the people of Iraq have fought the full might of the U.S. Army with simple weapons. If the entire population of Iraq had been armed, Saddam would not have been able to rule as an evil dictator. And the US would not have DARED to invade. Remember the actions of another European who was against guns. After he took all of the guns from the people of his nation, it was declared that a last a safe society had been established. His name was Adolf Hitler!

Shortly after WWII China was thought to be a threat to the US, but the statement from them was that such an invasion is not possible because, "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Even jet fighters and big bombs are not enough to defeat a determine population that is armed with simple guns. Guns ARE the insurance of freedom. Our leader, George Bush seems to be a bit slow in learning this fact. We proved it to a certain King George in 1776.

When the govenrment fears the people we have freedom. When the people fear the government we have tyranny. Without arms, we must fear the government.

 

Man, this thread blew up!

Yank, nice pic... I've got 29 rounds of Winchester Ranger 9mm (formerly BT's) ready to roll by my bedstand (CZ-75 compact). I sleep pretty well at night for what its worth. Take care and be safe!

ETA... I own pg 89 bitches

 

Just exactly "what" am I evading?

So, you are saying that in every other country where people are 'not culturally brainwashed' (like in the USA) to buy guns they have dictatorships?!?

Have you actually "looked" at the government you voted for? (Twice!)

Don't keep talking about Hitler when you have war criminals like George W. Bush and his Mafia ignoring U.N. resolutions!!!

Your guns haven't done you any good whatsoever.

The next U.S. government will be just as bad, and I don't think they'll be in that much of a hurry to bring the troops home for Iraq either.

Not unless you lot get off your asses and remind those assholes just exactly "why" you voted for them, and "who" they are there to serve.

They are "not" there to serve Paris Hilton, or Britney, or the rich people who bribe them.

They are there for you, and they have failed you. They have consistently brainwashed you and let you down.

They have amassed global opinion against you, and it won't be long before countries start turning their backs to you when you'll need them.

Guns!

What the hell do you need guns for? This is so silly.

I have nothing to sidestep here, but a big clumsy paraplegiac trying to pose as a logical argument against the ethical reasoning which separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom.

Is your idea of liberty to stay in a Wild West scenario and kill each other? Fine, but don't expect the rest of the world to join in and applaud you.

This isn't about good and evil. The church has kept out of this thread, because they know they can't save your arses. This is beyond good and evil.

It is about reasoning with what is good for your nation's health.

You need guns to protect yourselves from a government that is oppressive?...
OK...
If that's the case, then why do you all slam every attempt by Ronald Macdonald to rally a protest against the government you so much fear???

You really must think we are all idiots, but we have never been afraid to show our colors. Why don't you people show your colours instead of pretending to be someting that you are not? We know where this solid staunch masonic-like opposition is coming from, all those reading this thread are not ignorant, so stop being cowards and say what you REALLY fear and why you REALLY need those guns

 

Again you just make comments but do not answere the question at all! The question is very direct, go back and read it, stop the insults stop your attempt to spin your theory and answere the question!


You just go round and round but you wont stop to anwere the question, until you do Im done with you, your a waste of breath if you wont answere, I have answered my own questions as well as yours. Several others have answered your questions but you just sit there unable for whatever reason to answere the question set before you!

Somebody PM me if he ever stops spinning and actually settles down to answere the question. His long winded replies that he tries so hard to evade the question and still lock onto his old fear factor is a joke.

Here is another question for you, why do people purchase health, life, homeowners, renter and other types of insurance? Maybe this question has enough shallowness and loss of heart for you to be able to answere.

 

Come on, stop horseing around, people. Reveal yourselves. What is your real interest in maintaining guns? Why are you scared to say what you feel, and file away the script and statistics emailed by the lodge? This is a democracy. No one is going to ban you for speaking your minds. State your case. This is a forum FFS. I don't need a gun. Why do "you" need a gun? Stop hiding behind numbers. Stop analyzing, get off your butts and do something. Your ancestors before you were good at that. Why have you become so complacent with every bitch-slap your government is hitting you with? You have a nice country. Why don't you take care of it? Why do you only allow the parts where the rich live to be safe? The rich don't have to walk around with guns! You have been sold a lie served on a bed of John Wayne and Rambo, and you refuse to see that what you are being fed is bad for you.

 

Lets look at Yanks hypothetical “what would you do if in that situation?”

I cannot say because I haven’t been in that situation and am very unlikely to be in one that is similar.

I don’t own a gun and don’t want to. And no one has burgled my house while I’ve been there and I don’t know of anyone that has been burgled while they were in the house. And according to the home office only about 2.5% of houses are burgled per year and in 2001 of the 430,361 houses robbed only 3,489 were classed as aggravated burglary were someone was armed (and that can mean an unopened penknife). So the possibility is not even 0.00 of a percent and I’m not even in one of the more risky groups so the percentage goes even lower.

Now Yank might say that however remote the possibility is it’s still a possibility and that is true, but his supposed experience still seems to leaves certain questions unanswered.

Now to get into my house the would be robber would have to get past the security and locks, which would have to mean a certain amount of professionalism and that denote a certain foreknowledge so they would already know the rewards were unlikely to be worth the risk.

Now Yank talks of a broken window which sounds more like an opportunist robber. But what did they expect to get away with? Are they just going to rummage around an occupied house looking for anything, again what?

Opportunists go for sellable items, expensive consumables to make a few quid on, things like a plasma TV, or high end DVD.

But OK, you hear the window downstairs being broken and hear footsteps.

This to me would indicate the person didn’t know the place was occupied since they seem to making no effort to keep quiet.

My first idea on knowing someone was in my house would be to call the police. I would then turn the lights on and loudly shout that the police were on their way. (what did you do?)

I would also set off the house alarm and ring my neighbours,- as part of the neighbour hood watch scheme.

Now if disturbed wouldn’t the burglar’s first idea be to escape?

They don’t know when you first rang the police or how long the police are going to take to get there it could be half an hour but they don’t know that to them it could be any second. They’ve been discovered why hang around?

Now we sleep upstairs (as it seems do you) so the thief after having been discovered would then have to go upstairs find the child’s room to then go in and attack the child.

Now of course I would go to protect my child, but why would a robber be attacking my child?

An opportunist thief is only going to go for things to grab, a professional for more expensive stuff but attacking a child isn’t in their favour.

Was this person coming with the intention of attacking someone if so why, I know of no one that hates me and my family so much that they would break into my house to attack us?

**

Now Yank you say felt that “unless you stop him he is going to kill you and harm the rest of the family” but again why do you think this opportunist thief is so intent on attacking your family?

Just because someone wants to rob me doesn’t make me instantly think that they are therefore intent on assault, rape or murder.

**

 

We seem to have reached an impasse.

Some here (including myself) see the problems associated with the US’s gun culture to be based within the wider context of American society.

While the pro-gunners only what to defend gun ownership.

The thing is that the defence only seems to back up the need to look at the attitudes that underpin it.

In other words some of the more general attitudes within American society.

**

For example –

Yank asks – “Are we violent here in the US” ? which is a good starting point for discussion but he then goes on “perhaps but then aain we have a far greater mixing pot of people and beliefs to deal with here too”

That “perhaps” seems to indicate a lack of interest in finding out and the rest of the statement throws up some interesting questions.

He seems to associate the problem (if there is one) with the “far greater mixing pot of people and beliefs” and his first (if only) answer to this problem is clearly to get armed.

As I’ve said many times there seems to be an attitude that leads the subject to a conclusion based in threat/intimidation, having the means to threaten or intimidate anyone or anything that might try to threaten or intimidate them.

But this isn’t actually dealing with the problem it is hoping the problem can be suppressed and so controlled at a manageable level.

But why not try and find out what is causing the problem and actually deal with that?

What is causing the tensions between these differing peoples and the differing beliefs?

**

 

Pitt

The little one’s spots have scabbed up and are fading and she is all fine thanks for asking.

“while you always say we (pro_gun) only want to defend guns its also true you (anti-gun) always blame the gun and want to enact bans”

Sorry Pitt but I have to point out again that if you actually read my posts you would see that this isn’t my position.

I don’t just see gun ownership as being at fault I see it as a symptom and cause of wider attitudes and view prevalent in US society.

The impasse as it stands at the moment in my view is the unwillingness of the pro-gunners to discuss these points.

For example I’ve asked both you and Yank to debate honestly and openly on the issues I’ve raised but you both so far have refused.

I mean it is very frustrating you’ll repeat ad infinitum arguments that have been covered but reject any notion of any meaningful discussion.

For example you keep on about violence and gun crime being on the rise in some countries and not others but without taking into account all the contextual and comparative difficulties involved.

The problem is that when this is pointed out the discussion is sidetracked onto these difficulties (that have anyway already been covered in detail) rather than actually moving the debate forward onto the real issues of many Americans social, economic and political attitudes that underpin US gun culture.

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