Gun ownership itself is a slight mental illness

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    superb argument, counselor! :sunglasses:
     
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  2. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

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    Okie, me and you still need to get together for that plate of beans and corn bread. We can come up with a way to repeal the Second Amendment if we think on it for a while.
     
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  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I just found an excellent example of "sensible" gun owners, and their rights.

    A suit that challenges Harrisburg, PA's city gun ordinance is being allowed to proceed.
    "Sensible" gun owners are upset becasue Harrisburg has laws that:
    • Bar anyone under the age of 18 from carrying a gun in public unless they are accompanied by an adult.
    • Prohibiting the shooting of any guns by the public within the city limits for any purpose other than self-defense.
    • Require gun owners to report to police any loss or theft of a gun within 48 hours of discovery.
    • Bar the possession or firing of guns in city parks.
    Penalties are a summery offense with a maximum 90 days in prison and fines ranging from $50 to $1,000.

    If successful what a repeal of theses laws would mean is that in the city:
    • Anyone, of any age, can openly carry a loaded AR 15 around in public. Twelve or thirteen years old? No problem.
    • Gang members can openly carry loaded Uzis around in public.
    • Gang members, ten year olds, or anyone else can legally fire a gun, anywhere, at any time, for any reason.
    • Firearms may be carried and fired at playgrounds, by kids.
    • Firearms can be carried and fired at any park for any reason.
    • Firearms can be carried into any Handy Market, church, or any non Federal building, and presumably fired with in the building. Definitely in the parking lot.
    Let's assume a best of situation. I go to my local park and set up some tin cans to plink at.
    Anyone know how far a bullet from a .22 rifle can travel?
    How about an AR15?
    30.06?
    And remember kids can do this if the law is repealed.

    And, and how about that neighbor kid of yours who just empties his Glock in his backyard...and his backyard is only 5 feet away?

    Sensible gun owners.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    granite45 likes this.
  4. BlastOff

    BlastOff Members

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    the whole idea behind gun ownership is super sinister
    ive noticed that "hardcore" types from other nations support gun ownership for different reasons
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Ok going to call Godwin here but only because this is a well document and know case of a democratic republic turning into a tyrannical authoritarian dictatorship.

    Someone here said in answer to when US gun owners would act to stop a ‘tyrannical’ government.

    But the question I fear is would they do it in time or at all?

    Remember we look at Hitler and the Nazis with hindsight we know what came next but the thing is that when Hitler was elected to power he was popular and became even more popular with his base afterwards.

    Maybe people should have noted the polarisation of politics, the street battles between violent right wingers and anti-fascist groups, the role of right leaning even racist para-police forces in the suppression of left leaning and racial groups, the unjudicial incarcerations of people even children. The little hints that things were going awry.

    It only needed an emergency, in Hitler’s case the burning down of the Reichstag, for many to believe the government should be given greater power, temporarily - just to make sure the ‘enemies of the people’ could be kept in check.

    The actions that the Nazis took actually made them even more popular with their base, such as the suppression of ‘fake news’ organisations, and local authorities (maybe we could call them sanctuary cities) that didn’t conform to the party line.

    And it has to be remembered Nazis never restricted access to guns for their supporters. In fact many of the early detention camps in Nazis Germany (‘Wild Camps)’ were set up by just such armed supporters using any lockable larger space, for example: engine rooms, brewery floors, storage facilities, cellars, etc they rounded up ‘enemies of the people’ like liberal Social Democrats, socialists, trade unionists, homosexuals and anyone thought to be ‘un-Germanic’.

    These people thought they were doing the right thing, the best thing for their country, to make their country great again.
     
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    I’m not saying that all US gun owners would support a Hitler but I worry that many would not fight against some things they agreed with I’ve had people that don’t seem that opposed to voter suppression who don’t seem worried by Trump’s packing of the courts and appointment of sycophants in positions of power etc. They tell people that are worried that it’s OK that they will step in at some point to protect left wingers and migrants if thing get ‘out of hand’ and ‘too tyrannical’

    But to repeat Martin Niemoller’s poem-

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Tyranny has a way of creeping up on a country - there are things to worry about already with the US, wouldn't it be better to tackle them now that to hope your guns will save you later?
     
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  7. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  8. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Then this should make you laugh



    And this hilarious
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  9. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Glad that you cleared that up
     
  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    To the point, TrudginAcrossTheTundra recently defined democracy as two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Or as Hitler put it: "Democracy is the canal through which Bolshevism lets its poisons flow into the separate countries and lets work there long enough for these infections to lead to a crippling of intelligence and of the force of resistance." (My New Order, 405) Naw, it can't happen here. Seig, heil!
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I watched the first one so far...excellent, and very worrisome.
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    MeAgain

    If anything the second one is even more worrisome, it shows how appointments to key positions and through willing support, intimidation and corruption the institutions that are supposed to protect democracy and human rights can be turned against them.

    There is one story that seems relevant to me in this discussion, it shows how basically just armed citizens with no real judicial authority got away with murder.

    Please watch the whole thing as this short description does not give the full story.

    It was reported that four inmates at a re-education camp at Dachau were shot trying to escape. An investigation by a prosecutor found out that they were all Jews and they had been shot in the back of the head at close range, it was murder.

    But the system was already corrupted, the story was embarrassing to the Nazis so they did their best to suppress the findings and the prosecution, propaganda films were made showing how well run and sanitary the camps were and reassuring that the inmates were been (relatively) well treated.

    However the prosecutor while knowing the risks kept pushing and deaths in the camp stopped as the prosecution went through the judicial system to the top and to (let’s say the German equivalent of the United States Attorney General at the time) locked it away in a draw to be forgotten (at the end of the war it was discovered and used in the Nuremburg trials)

    Well when the guards discovered they could quite literally get away with whatever they wanted the re-education camps soon turned into death camps.

    *

    Now I’m not saying that would happen in the US today, but what worries me is that if tomorrow there was a report that four Guatemalan inmates at a detention camp on the Mexican border had been shot trying to escape, I think many Americans wouldn’t care. They might even say that if they were running away they must have been ‘bad people’ and deserved what they got.

    There have been people here that have been apologists for the detention of migrants in crowded facilities, the separation of families and the locking up of children in cages, would they do the same if four migrants got shot trying to escape a detention centre?
     
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I've been up all night so I don't know when I'll get to the second video...but I will.

    The U.S. is being corrupted already...just look at Mr. "I like beer" and our president who is getting away with breaking numerous laws.
     
  14. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    MeAgain

    And isn’t it interesting that the pro-gun lobby that usually are so vocal and verbose have become so uncharacteristic quiet when asked to explain their contention that gun ownership is a way to counter ‘tyranny’ and even how they would define ‘tyranny’

    For example remember at Charlottesville that mixing with the no-Nazis and White supremacists there were groups of people dressed in military type clothing and carrying military type guns (they have also appeared at Ferguson and other flashpoints). They said they were there to protect the demonstrators and there were those that said this was only right that this was just normal Americans exercising their right to bear arms.

    I at the time I just went really - so the pro-gun lobby find what seem like armed para-military types at a demonstration to protect the extreme right wing and no alarms go off that in fact they support that kind of thing.

    Then these same people turn around and say that everything is ok because ‘if it comes to it’ those same gun totting para-military groups will protect socialists and liberals as well, and find our scepticism unjustified and even annoying while never actually explaining when they would step in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Corruption of the courts, concentration camps, obstruction of justice, attacking intellectuals and minorities, fake media, make Germany great again.....too bad no one will watch these videos or understand the similarities.

    Far easier to rely on catch phrases,hate, and fear.

    (The ads were a pain)
     
    Balbus likes this.
  16. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    MeAgain

    Yes such as the vedeo ‘The Violence of Lies’



    I mean when you get this kind of thing from the official gun lobby, you do wonder who certain gun owners might target as ‘enemies of the people’.
     
  17. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Fortunately we still have people with enough hutzpah to stand up and tell it like it is.

    What motivates people to fight against freedom? Covetousness.
    "Those people have more than I do and that's not fair. I'd rather nobody have anything than to feel inferior to people who have more."
    The Bible warns us of discontent and provides a path to contentment, but the discontent have turned it into some ancient mythical text not to be trusted and they're getting their just deserves.
     
  18. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yeah, the clinched fist of truth...where have I seen that?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Weird, Lenin is doing the Black Power sign, which is fine. But Hitler is doing the sort of thing you see when he realizes you didn't clean up after your dog shit in his yard.
     
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  20. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    We are reaching a point where some of my points will be proven. We are also reaching a point in gun laws I never thought I would see. If an impeachment happens there will be domestic terrorism from right wing gun owners. If a gun buy back or banning the sale of a Ar-15 happens there will be terrorism. Either of these would in theory be a democratic process and the will of the people just not THEIR people. Would this not on it's own show they are not really American? It will show they are in favor of a dictator. That is the short coming of the 2nd amendment. Long ago only one sort of person supported it. So the idea that we can all have guns and fight for our rights is lost. We have come to a point where all with guns are the tyranny. They are not willing to have elections (plenty of examples of gerrymandering and canceled primaries), they are not willing to hear facts. They do not accept that they fight for what they hate. IF and it's a big if the shoe was on the other foot perhaps their morals have a place.

    If most Americans were gun owners with the NRA outlook I think we would already have conflict. Each side would take it upon themselves to fight. Now we have one side who feels confident that they scare the other so they feel that is enough.

    It's going to be the like the Troubles in Ireland. Most people just wanting to live life and we have to deal with a small group of people willing to harm and kill others because they feel they have the real idea of the country. I think they know that a traditional war will not work. The plan is long term guerilla attacks on goverment and "liberal" people. For example any politician who would vote for the Ar-15 ban is shot. Places like California can look forward to pipe bombs and mass shooters in malls and other public places. These people are not really American so they must die. They really hate California, for some reason they spell it with a K often. I guess to imply some sort of racist democratic connection with the KKK?

    Long term Troubles only show I was right. As I've said if the American gun owners really wants to stop ouright bans they can not make trouble.

    What does from "cold dead hands" really mean? They are going to have to shit or get off the pot. Either they follow though on the bluff or they compromise and move forward. Sadly they are clear on which they will pick. The word compromise is thrown around so often by them.

    It's the left's wing duty to accept freedom of speech and ideas that differ from theirs. You lost get over it kind of thinking. Ok, well you lost the gun issue so let's be adults and not violent ANFITA types and use our words. When someone makes you mad are you gonna throw milk shakes and tantrums or are you going to find common ground? A majority of Americans even gun owners support some kind of change to the law. This is democracy. I am just playing by their rules. Violence is never OK right? It's not what men do. We peacefully say we don't like guns and care for the safety of our people and you say we can die. You break those rules.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019

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