Green Party?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by dwilcox1982, May 15, 2004.

  1. dwilcox1982

    dwilcox1982 Member

    Anybody besides me voting Green this election? The Greens seem to be lost in the shuffle of candidates this round... personally, I'm goin' for David Cobb, the environmental lawyer from Texas (as my sig implies). What're your thoughts?
     
  2. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    The hell with the Greens, they're every bit as bad as the Democrats and Republicans. They are another disguise for the Illuminati of the world, plotting to take us over. I am glad Nader got real and no longer associates himself with that party.
     
  3. ImmortalDissident

    ImmortalDissident Senior Member

    I'm registered as a green, but I won't be voting green in this election. At this point I'll do what it takes to get Bush out of office, and worry about the green party next term.
     
  4. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    If a third party had any real chance of winning any election, I'd vote for them in a heartbeat to send a message to the dems and reps. But seriously, the Green party can't hope to have a chance of standing against the democrats and republicans any time soon. Since either Bush or Kerry will win the 2004 election, I'd rather have a say in who gets elected.
     
  5. LuciferSam

    LuciferSam Member

    Eh, I'd like to see your reasoning for how the Greens are so sinister. As for Nader, I've liked the dude, but I don't regard him as such a clean candidate anymore. The biggest contributors to Nader's campaign actually happen to be big Bush supporters who know Nader can draw the votes away from the Dems.

    I like the Greens, I would be Libertarian except the Libs don't have anything for environmentalism or business regulation.
     
  6. Eugene

    Eugene Senior Member

    I think he's just pissed that he lost his huge post number.
     
  7. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    the more major parties, the better.... i wish them the best of luck to maintain a real third party... but i wont be voting for them in this election... i think we really need to get bush out the office... im voting for kerry...
     
  8. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

    Anyone who cares about this country should be doing anything and everyting to get Bush out of office. The "Greens" helped put him in the first time. They accepted MONEY from the GOP to help Nader run.

    The ONLY wise choice is to vote for the guy who has a CHANCE of beating Bush (er that would be Kerry.) You are never going to get someone who espouses hippie peace love pie in the sky idealism in the White House, NEVER! So vote AGAINST Bush. Any third party candidate will only give Bush the edge.

    This ISN'T the election to get all idealistic. You don't remodel when your house is burning down, you PUT OUT THE FIRE! And Kerry is the only REALISITIC choice who can do that. Worry about remodleing later. This isn't the time to "make a statement." Wanna know why? The people who make the changes and choices don't give a FUCK what your statement is. You can espouse Green party ideals for the rest of your life and the guys in the suits will STILL be making policy for you. In fact, but voting Third Party you MAKE SURE the guys you LEAST agree with are going to be making policy for you.

    Get your head out of the clouds, douse the bong and get real. The guys in the suits have and always will be in power, the only thing we can do is to take the guy who is least likely to take away MORE freedoms. And the only guy who has a chance is Kerry.

    It may not be idealism, but it IS reality. Countries aren't run on "good ideas." They are run on poliitics. And if you have a brain in your head, you realize, that the POLITICIAN who is LEAST likely to take more of your freedoms away is the only logical choice.

    "Making a statement" doesn't change anything. And this is the election where "making a statement" has never been more irrelevant.
     
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Anyone who cares about this country should be doing anything and everyting to get Bush out of office.

    While I actually agree with those sentiments, I find them also depressing as they probably mean that the present US rightwing bipolar system of government will remain in place.

     
  10. cutelildeadbear

    cutelildeadbear Hip Forums Gym Rat

    I think this is sad. Look at how many people here said they would vote Green or "other" but they are afraid to because they don't want Bush in there. Maybe if all of those people voted their hearts then we really could make a difference. I'm voting for whomever can represent me to the fullest. I'm registered Green and because of what I personally believe in, I will most likely vote Green. If Bush is re-elected, it isn't my fault, it is because everyone else voted for the lesser of two evils instead of what they truly believe in. Then again I wonder if some people even know what they believe in.
     
  11. LuciferSam

    LuciferSam Member

    Half of me really flows with your sentiments, cutelildeadbear, but then the other half of me makes me realize that there aren't enough Green supporters around to make a difference... the grim reality is that the Republicans will win if the left does not unite. What I truly believe in is closer to the Greens', but I don't think I will forward anything that I believe in by not voting for the guy who's most likely to oust Bush. There are too many more people that 'truly believe' in what I and the Greens oppose. I loathe Bush, mostly anything his administration does I've been against. I'm with Maggie Sugar - when you vote for a small third party, you in effect only increase the chances of [insert party you oppose the most] to win. Maybe in future elections I will vote Green, when the incumbent president doesn't repel me so much, but not this one.
     
  12. dwilcox1982

    dwilcox1982 Member

    That's EXACTLY where I stand! Think about it too: Nader barely got 5% in 2000 - that's a drop in the bucket. Gore actually won the election, but gave a lame, boring campaign making it hard to support him (same for Kerry). Also, don't blame the Greens, blaim Bush and his cronies (they stole the election, so the whole "spoiler" thing is irrelevent from the beginning).

    Related to that: the leading candidate (David Cobb) is running a "safe states" strategy. That is, he's only running in states that are "safe" for Democrats or Republicans (non-swing states). Illinois' the perfect example: it's so heavily Democratic that every Green and their dog could vote Green, and not have any negative effect. That way we can vote our concience, AND help kick Bush to the curb.

    Lastly, the whole "spoiler" problem could be eliminated with the implimentation of Instant Runoff Voting, otherwise known as preference voting. Simply put, if your first choice is eliminated, instead of your vote going down the drain, it goes to your next choice (thereby not being wasted, and allowing for the winner to have an actual majority). Quite frankly, it's the perfect system, used all over the world!

     
  13. Jozak

    Jozak Member

    I will be voting, but I am not sure for who yet.

    I hate Kerry, and I cannot stand Bush.

    I will probably vote Libertarian, but my state is going to go for Bush, and I would vote for Bush over Kerry.
     
  14. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

    Exactly! I would LOVE to "vote with my heart." I did that, in my first election (oh no, this story again) I voted 3rd party in 1980, my first election. I "didn't like" either of the candidate much because they didn't "speak to me." (I was an 18 year old, hyper intellectualized pot head, just what the hell did I expect?) So I voted 3rd party........and Ron Ray-Gun got into office. At first I defended my choice "I voted my dreams, not my fears." Well soon my FEARS were all coming true. I saw that my vote was not only "wasted" but had helped put a facist in office.

    It was then that I realized that there were few or no politicians which thought just as I did. That reality was about more than my "dreams" and that NO country has ever had a utopia.(Which, at 18, is what I wanted and really thought we could have! How naive!) WORK for the things you believe in. WORK for Green causes (I do.) But use your one and only VOTE for making change. Bush HAS to go. A Green will NOT beat him, even if every one who lives and beleives in Green votes for one. You live in a country full of non thinkers and status quo-ers. You HAVE to work within real parameters. THIS election is the most important in decades. We can continue with the path of facism, or we can have some changes made.

    If you think Kerry and Bush are "the same." You have been too brainwashed by uberlefty manipulators (or even uberRIGHTY manipulaters, who would like nothing MORE than to have you vote 3rd party, they REALLY want you voting against Kerry. By voting 3rd party, you are doing just what the uber RIGHTIES are wanting you to do.) Kerry and Bush simply aren't the same. Look at their records and what they stand for.

    You have a right to vote for whoever you want. But if you have a conscience, you have an obligation to get that horrible man, George W. Bush out of office. You WON'T do that by voting 3rd party. Not this time. You can rave about what "could be" or you can face reality about what IS!!!!

    Use THIS election (while our house is one fire) for reality and Kerry. Worry about Green issues by your actions, your political and social activities and your words. But please please DON'T waste your vote and give it to Bush again. Nader's votes in FLA and a few other states gave W. the edge to let the Electoral decide for the county and allow him the width to take it to the Supreme Court, If it hadn''t been so close, Gore would have gotten into office, as Bush would not have had the ability to protest and also get the electoral. The differences in numbers going for Nader would have made the difference. Without Nader, the Electoral would have turned out differenetly, we would have resolved the Iraq problem diplomatically, instead of with violence, and we would ALL be better off.

    Don't DREAM, THINK!!!! Dreaming is something you do with your eyes closed. This election needs all to have their eyes wide open.

    Blessings.
     
  15. a vote for Nader = a vote for Bush


    (don't all you Nader voters start bitching if/when Bush is re-elected....you could have made the difference in 2000 by voting for Gore, and we wouldn't be in this shit-hole that Bush dug for us......if you want to vote "your heart" vote to get Bush out at any cost.....we have the power, together, to get him out)
     
  16. beachbum7

    beachbum7 Lookin' for any fun

    I don't know if I'll be voting Green in this election. As of now, I know very little about the Green candidate. But as much as I'm angry about Bush being the president, I don't blame Ralph Nader for that. Well, the Republicans used every dirty trick in the book to steal the election in Florida, and also, Gore should have won the election handily (so it wouldn't have had to come down to a couple of states).
     
  17. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member



    Yeah, like giving money to the Green Party and Nader, which they happily accepted.

    And he would have had enough votes to win, without a struggle, if not for the Nader votes.
     
  18. cutelildeadbear

    cutelildeadbear Hip Forums Gym Rat

    Maggie,

    I must respectfully disagree with you. Just because you were "an 18 year old, hyper intellectualized pot head" does not mean that everyone who votes 3rd party is. And I haven't got any delusions about some sort of utopia either. I know that politics is politics and politicans are still politicians trying to put forth their own agenda. I still do not think that if I vote Green party that it is going to cause Bush to win. You might perceive it as a wasted vote, but I don't I feel that it carries much weight. And I am quite active in the Green party Delaware and the campus Greens here at the University of Delaware and Del. Tech. I worked on campaigns for Green party candidates here and as many causes as I can. The Green party is all about grassroots and building from the bottom up. I don't think that a Green candidate is going to beat Bush or Kerry. That doesn't make my vote a waste. That means that I have stated my opinion when asked what I believe in. That is what makes this country great. And I haven't been brainwashed into believing that Kerry and Bush are the same. Perhaps some people have, but I haven't, so please don't assume that about every Green. Kerry seems to be playing the fence to me. Greens are not the only ones who believe this.

    This is what I did last election, I decided what was most important to me, then I did research to find out who represented what I believe in the most and voted for him, and not just based on what they say they believe or what they will do, but by his actions and what he has done. That is exactly what I plan to do this election. It might not be a Green candidate, it might be who knows at this point.

    Maggie, I really do see your point, I agree with a lot of what you say, which is why this has become a hard decision for me, but I simply cannot vote for someone or something that I do not believe in. Do you suggest I just don't vote?

    What if Kerry gets in there and we do find out that he is no better? Then what? Will everyone be bitching about all of those people who coulda shoulda woulda, but didn't? Let's stop playing the blame game for just a moment and understand the whole point of voting, which isn't the lesser of two evils, it is to represent what you personally believe in. That is why we even bother to vote. I just don't believe that it is the government that changes the people, I believe the people change the government. Maybe I'm being stubborn as I am known to be, but that is just the way I see it. I'm not voting to get Bush out of office, that is not why we vote. I am voting for what I believe in, and feel that I am right in doing so. If Bust truely wins again, then the people have spoken, if he doesn't win, he will cheat and lie and manipulate anyway, so one could say why vote at all? I vote (Green) because I can.
     
  19. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

    NO! You have every right to vote for the person you most think will do the best job. I, also respectfully disagree with the idea that voting third party will not help Bush get into office. "What if Kerry isn't any better?" HOW could he possibly be worse?

    Like I said before, this isn't the election to be remodeling, it is the election to put out a fire. Only helping dethrone Shrub will do that. Save the "remodeling" for a less consequential election, IMO.

    If you disagree, vote Green and have an other 4 years with Bush. Because that IS what will happen.

    But, even though I disagree with who you are voting for, I uphold your right to do so.

    Blessings.
     
  20. cutelildeadbear

    cutelildeadbear Hip Forums Gym Rat

    What is meant to be will be. I can't control or change the future. If Bush is re-elected, then that is what is supposed to happen. It does not mean that I will like it, but there will be a reason for it.
     

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