Greed is Good, Greed works

The church has been behind so many of the wars in history, you have to be joking. If you want to hide behind your protestant hogwash, join up and fight what you say is the good fight. Don't expect the rest of us to fight your fights any longer.

 

We don't have to remove currency, just privately owned currency, atleast at first. That can be achieved by a unified workers state, and the currency would be removed with the coming of free food, health care, and distribution of products (we can afford to make enough for everyone, we just have to organize ourselves to do it) and the abolition of consumer society. Now, that wont happen over night, but nobody expects it to.

So once this workers state is achieved, the people as a whole could buy goods from other countrys or companies in other countrys. Its like one giant state company, with all the corporations mereged together, controlled, and nationalized, as well as worker owned and operated (collective ownership).

We could figure out easily enough how much of what we need and are using, and then we can buy it (thats actually very easy to do after we overthrow the bourgeoisie government).

With the abolition of "free trade", so does the current dynamics of supply and demand. Currently, things are made because they are profitable, not because people want or need them. In a workers state, things that are needed would be made first and then things that are wanted, and the people would decide to do that.

If you're refering to a senario in which there really isn't enough of something for everybody, then we don't really need that item anyway. But just to prove my point, could you name some items that we couldn't manage to as a whole produce and distribute to everyone who needs one or wants one?

 

No shit. Whats your point? The difference is if we have private property or not.

Secondly, marxist communism has never been practiced, and neither has international socialism. Capitalism has to die before that happens (which is what is happening right now, its dying).

I'm going to go read about mercantilism and stuff now.

 

Alistair Cooke's bones 'stolen'

Alistair Cooke was mourned on both sides of the Atlantic

An investigation is under way in New York into allegations that the bones of the late broadcaster Alistair Cooke were stolen before his cremation.

Cooke, known for the Letter from America he broadcast for the BBC, died almost two years ago, aged 95.

According to the New York Daily News his bones were stolen by a criminal ring trading body parts.

They were later sold by a biomedical tissue company now under investigation, the paper claims.

When Cooke died of lung cancer that spread to his bones in March 2004, his body was taken to a funeral home in Manhattan.

Two days later, relatives of the iconic broadcaster received his ashes, which were then scattered in New York's Central Park.

I'm most shocked... that my stepfather's ancient and cancerous bones should have been passed off as healthy tissue to innocent patients


Stepdaughter Holly Rumbold



Now they have been told that body snatchers allegedly surgically removed his bones and sold them for more than $7,000 (£4,000) to a company supplying parts for use in dental implants and various orthopaedic procedures.

The US attorney general's office in Brooklyn is investigating an elaborate ring involving funeral directors, surgeons and entrepreneurs.

This is a grim and ghoulish tale which has understandably appalled everyone who knew Cooke, says the BBC's Guto Harri in New York.

Cooke's stepdaughter, Holly Rumbold, told the BBC's World at One programme she was outraged by the claims.

"I'm most shocked by the violation of the medical ethics, that my stepfather's ancient and cancerous bones should have been passed off as healthy tissue to innocent patients," she said.

"I'm furious, I'm enraged, I'm outraged. My stepfather is not the only one that's been used for this macabre purpose and people are making billions of dollars out of it."

Cooke's daughter, Susan Kittredge, also said she was shocked and saddened.

And, as the cause of his death was at least partially bone cancer, she said she was equally appalled that patients in need of healthy transplant pieces could have received diseased bones. The use of cancerous bone for transplant is a violation of the US Food and Drug Administration's rules, the New York Daily News says. The use of tissue from very elderly people is also against transplant guidelines.


couldn't we just say that these grave robbers were just entrepreneurs that we couldn't all aspire to? after all weren't they just good business men? good on them i say.

 

I do not think so, capitalism reinvents itself. It will never die by itself. People have to kill it.

 

Greed sucks.

Like when millionares buy property in poor areas and convince the local goverment to pass stringent neighborhood beautification guidelines so the millionares can increase their property value. that doesn't help the community, it just stuffs some extra real estate money into the millionare's pocket. It puts out the common property owner because they are responsible for making sure their property meets the new requirements. This costs alot of time and money and causes great hardships in these communities.

In the area I live in, not conforming to beautifcation ordinances is a criminal offence. They will not only fine you, they will throw you in jail if your property doesn't conform to the standards dictated by one guy in the county courthouse.

America isn't what it used to be, and greed is the primary cause.

 

You call America capitalist? Sure, if you're a multi-millionare with money to burn you can indulge in all that the American capitalist system has to offer, But for the average American, you can't even start a small business without spending your life savings on business licenses, filing fees to conform to various goverment regulations, filing fees to get a state sales tax number (which is completely ridiculous, you have to pay the state a fee to get permission to pay them the taxes they so zealously demand). All of this is just to get permission to go into business, and has to be done before you doany actual business related activity such as buying merchanise, renting a location, etc. And to top it off, then they put you on a waiting list while they sort through all the bureaucratic crap to make sure you conform to all the rules which are too many to number. I have known people who have waited 2-3 months to get a business license.

What is the would-be capitalist supposed to survive on while during this period? He can't make any money off of the new business- he doesn't have a license yet. He doesn't have any money left, all that went into license fees.

This is living better than ever? It seems to me our would-be capitalist is barely living at all.

The rich man doesn't have any of these problems. He can spend whatever it costs on his new venture, hire a team of lawyers to work through all the bureaucratic unpleasantness, and can afford to wait ever how long it takes because he already has a supply of cash to live on.

I don't know what your definition of capitalism is, but the dictionary defines it as:

"the economic system in which the means of producing and distributing goods are privately owned and operated for profit, originally with full competition in a free market"

That's not what we find in America today. In reality there is no competition because all of the businesses in any given trade are owned by the relatively small group of people who have the means to obtain the requisite licenses and permits. Consequently there is no free market.

In a free market, you do not need government permission to trade. You simply offer your product or service to the public and allow the public to decide who they will trade with and who they won't. In that type of economy, the good business men survive because they provide better goods and services than the competition. The other fail if they provide products or services that are inferior to what the competition offers.

And concerning your comment about life 100 years ago- in 1906 there was no income tax, only a handful of states required business licenses, and in most of the ones that did the license requirements were so basic that anybody off the street could meet them, and if you didn't like the requirements you could simply go to the next state over, where no business license was required.

Yes, economic conditions have changed over the past 100 years, but certainly not for the better.

I don't mean to piss you off with this rather long rant, I'm just saying that modern capitalism is not the fragrant bed of roses you're making it out to be.

Modern capitalist nations are not flourishing (I believe that was the word you were looking for) to the contrary, they are suffering because of the problems I described.

I agree that socialism is nothing to be proud of. It merely takes liberties away from the common people in order to make the state the all-powerful controling entity.

In closing I will say this: America had a good free market economy once. If enough people band together and stand up for their freedoms, we can have that type of economy once again.

 

I had never heard about what happened to Alistair Cooks remains. I hope his family sued the shit out of the company and recovered such huge punitive damages the company was put out of business. The only reason I can think of selling diseased tissue would be for cloning purposes. Maybe this company thought they could isolate the dna without the disease. In any case it was reprehensible.

 

yeah it was in the news over here in australia and britain

as to capitalism - woodsman says more or less what i was going to say
capitalism can only survive in an environment of competition
i think marx says something about this, he says it is a natural progression from competition to total hedgemony by one company

with a free market people should be able to start a business without too much hassle but history has shown that too many shonky operators start up shop . bad electricians, plumbers, mechanics, loan sharks etc etc. the result is chaos and in many ways the checks and balances are necessary to protect the public from bad people.

one way to sort out the economy is this

have a flat tax of say 10 percent - non negotiable on income tax. this may seem radical because you may say that rich people should pay more. the truth is that under the present system they do not, poor people do. a non negotiable flat tax simplifies the system. if you earn 100, 000 then you pay 10,000 (about 8000 more than you did before!)

there should be no tax breaks on "investment properties" investment into properties for your retirement should not be allowed. this pushes the price of housing through the roof. it creates an financial arms race that leaves most people out in the cold. in australia this scenario has been played out across the country, creating a situation where residential property prices have rocketed forcing people to take unreasonably high loans. there should be no tax breaks on "investment" by getting rid of these tax breaks it simplifies the systems and levels the playing field - rich people start paying tax.

will stop here

 

Greed is good... hmm... yeah. It's good for the people that get what they want. Except the way it usually pans out is that a minority get much more than they should ever need, while the majority get to eat dirt. The statement "capitalism works for everyone" maybe makes sense if you're talking about an individual country which is fairly well off, but on a world-wide scale, to say they'd all be as prosperous as America or England in time is absurd when you think about it. The only thing that will work for everyone is equality, by definition.

As far as I know, the reason capitalism has worked so well for the majority of us westerners is because our past leaders have claimed land (usually by force) which has had an abundance of natural resources, which we then sell to Countries which need them to survive in a capitalist environment. Developing countries without access to valuable resources or without weapons to take them by force are then always going to be handicapped.

I think maybe the reason people are content with/praise capitalism is because they can neither think of nor see any better way.. I can't either, but I certainly don't doubt that there IS a system in which we can ALL live fairly comfortable lives, without the need for war (which is, after all, what makes us most of our money, and keeps the U.S from losing it's position as the most rich and powerful country in the world).

 

In a free market, these bad service providers don't last very long. They are always being out done by better tradesmen. And regulation does little to restrain these bad operators. This is because licensing insures that the only people who get licenses are those who have the means to obtain it (moneyto pay fees, time to wait on the bereaucracy, etc.). This often means that only the bad operators are allowed to trade (if they are the only one who can get licensed.

As for the flat tax, I personally don't think it's too radical. It seems like it may be a pretty good option for eliminating some of our economic problems. Although I would probably advocate for a cap of 20% (but that would be an absolute cap so that no one would give up more of their income than 20%, and that would inlude the entire income tax liability: federal, state, local, whatever. The total amount of all of them would not exceed the cap.)

And I totally agree with you about the investment properties and the way they raise housing costs. It just creates a condition where only the rich can afford real estate and the commoners are lucky if they can keep roofs over their heads.

 

If greed works so well, why are there 35 million people* classified as living at the poverty level in the United States.


*from the U.S. Census Bureau 2005 report

 

Greed is good IF:
You're one of the tiny minority that actually benefits from it, on a global scale.
I say that in practical terms only, certainly not moral or ethical.
However,
If greed is so great, let me fill you in on what greed has done for our little planet:
It has removed hundreds of millions of peasants from land that used to sustain them and parked them in ever-growing unmanageable third world cities, in living conditions you wouldn't consider for your dog.
It has sucked up fossil fuels to pay for the transportation of globalized goods. Observe how this works: You pay anywhere from 5 to 10 bucks for a gallon of gas so that the long-distance importation of strawberries in January can line the pockets of transnationals. This means you as a consumer are subsidizing their little enterprise.

Greed has de-industrialized North America (no I do not consider Mexico anything other than Central American - culturally, linguistically and certainly politically) - and gone shopping for nickel-an-hour labor in southeast Asia.

Greed has killed Main Street (the one that Disney theme parks so lovingly re-create, the one where people used to shop, work and play) - and replaced it with amorphous endless strip sprawl, mall, and box store (much of this courtesy of Wal*Mart and all its immitators.)

Greed has McFranchised almost every service you can think of, stamping it into cookie-cutter conformity...til your butt is branded with a smiley face.

Greed doesn't create wealth, it intercepts it. (notice the subtle difference.)
This means the sound of that oink telling you there is no money for public social welfare. (along the way greed has made sure that the word "welfare" has become synonymous with bums, deadbeats and single mothers.)

Greed has created its own world state. This means waving a flag when it suits the occasion, otherwise siphoning off the wealth and parking it in any offshore location where that wealth can't be taxed by an government for the citizens it is responsible to.

Greed gobalizes the planet, not for any common good or betterment of humanity, but to maximize profits (for the above-mentioned purpose.)

Consider the by-products: global warming, species extinction, wars, terrorism, toxic poisoning of the ecosystem.

Greed, with its smart little brain, has invented all by itself, Poverty Inc.
To clue in to how this works - visit any Money Mart. Or how about rental outlets for the poor....buy that $650 tv on terms that will cost you 4 or 5 times that much by the time you finally pay it off.

Greed has killed decent jobs with decent benefits by the millions.
Along the way it has created massive debt, the like of which the world has never known before.

If you are greedy and have anything remotely resembling real financial security, you are one of a tiny minority - not much more than 5% of the population of this planet.

Unfortunately, this does not now nor ever will conform to any function of democratic public or political will.
(remember that thing about majority rule?) This has morphed entirely into smoke and mirrors in modern times...and left public "commonwealth" feeling a little too much like some loser in a Las Vegas casino.

It is absolutely an illusion, to think that we are better off for the efforts of neocons.
They have given us de-industrialization, downsized, off-shored and outsourced our jobs, ramped up the cost of living and taken away the income.

They oink their own precious version of "Let them eat cake." (and we all know what happened then....)
-sounds something like: Re-train! Educate!
Imagine - a nation of MBA's all working Starbucks counters.

I think the very worst thing that greed and its cronies do:
They lie all along the way, every time they sell us more snake-oiled golden plans for the future, and keep one serious little fact hidden - there ain't enough to go around.

-which about any bright 5 year-old out there could figure out all by themselves, given a few choice facts and figures.

So yeah, greed is good. If you're a pop star, a supermodel, a sports star, a CEO, a banker, stockbroker...or just lucky enough to be born into money....(although if that's the case, don't expect to have an actual childhood.)

Greed is just what it is - and plays itself out on the world stage remarkably much the same way it does in the kindergarden playroom. Funny how life is so circular, huh?

 

Wrong...A prime example of a capitalist economy where there is extreme poverty despite a capitalist and democratic system; India with a population of around 1 billion.

 

Well said!

 

Well we have some thinkers on here very good.

Green, you have alot to learn. Trust me bud at 16 I was such a commie I started a young marxist club at school and handed out copies of the communist manifesto and read everything from lenin to trotsky to marx and engels to mao and che and i must say they are all idiots. The only thing I agree with Marx on now is his saying, "the Road to hell is paved with good intentions". Continue your education, keep reading all the communist junk you want, and get active. Its good to be aware of such big ideas at an early age and I am impressed. But, just remember, for a revolution you need the masses behind you, and the masses have left communism behind.

Gardener is probably the one who put the most thought into a post so I'll start with him.

Greed is what is making research into alternative energy sources such a profitable investment. People don't want to pay alot for gas so they come up with a way to abandon it. Good for the investors, the enviroment, and good for capitalism. Those industrialized jobs of North America were filled with workers who CHOSE not to continue their education and work in a factory for a living. Free will is a bitch for the lazy. LOL the whole thing about the death of mainstreet, who really gives a fuck? your telling me people don't have fun and socialize in malls?Globalization is great I don't know why you say otherwise. Diversity is good. As I look down ur post it gets alittle....childish so im just gonna hit the smart point you made (the massive debt thing, pretty dumb). I don't really see how terrrorism is caused by capitalism and greed but i do see war. Ya when people can't compete under the market they tend to steal. War is just people stealing each others stuff. About greed being good if your a CEO, a banker, a pop star, a supermodel or just lucky enough to be born into money......man what a load of crap. You think someone is born into being a CEO or a banker? what about being born into a pop star? No, you are not born into these roles. You WORK HARD and you WORK SMART. You go to school, you don't drop out, you don't get addicted to drugs, you apply yourself, toy go to college and you EARN a degree that takes you to those places. Pop stars work hard too, just in a different area. They learned to sing or to make music and they did it alot. They worked to excel, not to stay static. Super models are a dif thing all together those are just pretty girls we all love to look at. Pretty girls are everywhere and its not a real stable source of income.

I think it was woodsman who said basically there is no competition because all these companies are owned by a relatively small group of people and no competition exists. So your telling me the people who own coke are the same people who own pepsi? what about the people who make rc cola are they in on it? Your telling me wendys and burger king and mcdonalds and waffleouse and pizza hut is owned by the same people? those are few of hundreds of millions if not billions of companies that exist and your telling me there is no such thing as competition anymore? Think man your way off.

35 people living in poverty in america huh? well, im living in poverty, making at the most something like 10,000 a year . Man you guys should help me out Im so poor im $7,000 below the poverty level. Give me some money If you think Capitalism sucks and let me be a leach. Your telling me 35 million out of 200 million is a significant stat? How many people are like me and are poor but continuing their education so they won't be later? How many of those people dropped out? How many of those people are drug addicts?

As to what somebody said about India being an example of capitalistic, democratic and poor, pick up any news magazine namely the time i got last week with an indian woman on the cover. Read an article in the new york times about china or india. Ya know what economists are saying is happening in the world right now? we are witnessing the rise of china and india. Both will be superpowers in the next 100 yrs. Capitalism is the reason why they are going to skyrocket from poverty to wealth.

 

I don't hate Capitalism, I just hate how is it in America, I'm prowd Social Democrat.

 

"Greed is Good, Greed works"

"Greed", is a simplistic moral pejorative inappropriately applied to a complex psycho-sexual dynamic.

The impulse to control, own and aquire is an anal-retentive impulse.

Such anal-retentiveness begins at the anal-stage of psycho-sexual development.

The anal-stage is a crucial formative stage forming life-long behavioral patterns.

Anal-retentiveness will develop in the anal-stage through harsh toilet-training imposed by anal-preoccupied parents in an anal-preoccupied society.

Unfortunately, civilized man is an extremely repressed anal-man, and civilized man, due to neurotic anal-preoccupations, is notoriously harsh in our toilet-training.

This creates a life-long psycho-physical association between a holding, grasping, retaining anal-stimulation, and Mommy's approval.

Capitalism is the anal-retentive's life-long subconscious desire for Mommy's approval.

 

They are going to become powerful (Maybe, things could change, you never know company plants could be moved to African countries.) because the off shore companies have chosen to shift manufacture of their products to these countries. When a country loses it's manufacturing base it loses a lot of it's power with the rest of the world, just look at England.

Where's that all powerful English Empire now?

 

don't you mean British Empire?