well i didnt want to write a friggin book length reply to this thread but since you my dear person want the truth n the whole truth here ya go... forced pregnant?? the cows are artificially inseminated for the first time at about 1 yr of age,,, after nine months as in humans,,, they have a calf,,, aproximately three months after they freshen(calve, have the baby for the schmucks)) then if health wise they are up to where they should be ,, yes indeed they are inseminated again,,, to give birth again, nine months later,,,,( but then again we as humans do that all the time though dont we??? and gees many a time i see women knocked up within 4-8 weeks after giving birth,,, but thats humane though aint it??) babies taken away at birth?? yup they are,,, not a few days but generally immediately after birth after they have been clean and dried off by mama,,,, why you ask??? because of importing and non closed herds there is a risk of carrying on certain diseases that mama cow may carry so therefore mamas milk is not best for them and it stops the diseases there,,, ( now if some of these big ass cow factories didnt import critters from other farms and other countries and had a closed herd this would not be an issue...) however when the babies were taken from mama they had a sufficient amount of colostrum that had been tested in order to provide the needed nutirents to the calves to give them the healthiest start they can have.. ( now again,,, how many human babies actually get mamas colostrum,,, instead they get a plastic nipple with some fabricated garbage in to them,,,,,, humane again aint it??) slaughter truck coming for calves???? ah well some farms yes indeed do send calves to slaughter ,,,, but not the heifers,(females, for the schmucks who think they know all n dont).. heifers were taken to a pen where they livedin a 8x6 place with dry straw, bottles of milk and water for the first eight weeks,,, no they are not chained up or anything ( shit i know people that live in as small a place with kids and adults and a dog or three too ... real fawkin humane ppl again huh?)After eight weeks they went to a large pasture area where they grow until its time to be bred .. Alot of the male calves were bought to be raised by families for whatever there use and yes of course some were sold to go for veal,,, however we did not use veal cages for them,,,, ( oops wait,,,,, what about all the hungry folks in the world,,,, lets let them starve n just shoot calves at birth,,, makes a lot of sense to me,,,, use yer brains ppl or has all yer tofu turned yer brains to mush??? how many kids in this country alone live on foodstamps n gov't handouts n crap cuz of this type of shit right here... but wait,,, humans are humane) while we are on the topic,,, what bout all the babies taken from parents here and all over the world,,, cryin screamin,, cuz some dumb fuck thinks it aint done right or how many are left in ppls care when they are not being fed properly or taken care of,,,,, ,,, fact of the matter is,,, when a person or people choose a way of life, ya choose to do so in the way that suits your needs and wants,,, you do so in the fashion that you can live with and be comfortable with,,,, if you cant do that then ya shouldnt be doin it in the first place,,,, and if you dont like the practices others have then dont follow them,,, but dont damn a whole segment of the world just because you think you know it all,,, when ya DON"T... live it,, go visit a farm, go spend some time with the folks,,,, dont just window shop n make a judgement on it all,, go see for oneself n then go from there,,,,
wow...you're angry....Seems to me what you said is pretty close to what other people have said, and if you agree with the way it is done then you would drink milk, and if you don't you wouldn't.... I am not sure in America but most mothers here do breastfeed their babies and the hospitals even have the mother express the collustrum and save it if there are feeding problems in order that the baby get this, bottle or breast it is regarded as so very important. You obviously think that the way things are done on dairy farms is just fine and other people disagree with it, I think that the last part of your post about people seeing for themselves is good though as I do think that once you do you can make the judgement and choice for yourself... the stuff relating to human babies though I think is another matter, sort of to do with whether we treat animals better or worse than we treat other humans...complicated and if you look at how we treat animals here in the west as opposed to how we treat people in third world countries then I figure you might have a point... oh...very complicated...
But, of course this "diseased milk" is OK for humans? How can the milk of the mother be bad for the baby? As a lactation expert, I can assure you than unless the cow was seriously diseased (enough that her milk could not be used for humans, and probably the result of improper treatment) the milk is FINE for the baby cow...........which of course, is who she made it for in the first place. In fact the baby cow is the ONLY animal who should consume Cow's Milk. This is only one of the reasons I don't consume dairy, and although I am not a vegetarian, will NOT eat veal in any form. My dh's uncle operated a "nice family" dairy farm and the sadness in that "veal barn" (which is what they call the place they put the babies whey they rip them from their mama's breast, even if the female calves would later be used for milk themselves, the boys usually all went for veal.) was one of the most pitiful places I have ever been in in my life. And these were "nice" farmers. Those babiese would be in those pens, crying and crying, some of them refusing to drink from the buckets (which of course, if you work in a dairy farm you KNOW those buckets contain....COW'S MILK, so it's dangerous right outta the mama, and fine from a bucket, please!) and the mamas were out in the field crying and mooing for their babies. It was so pathetic, I told my dh I would never go there again at calving time. Cows milk, from well taken care of cows, isn't "bad" for baby cows, but it certainly isn't made for humans. To think otherwise is self delusion. OOOO. Not the right comment to use on this particular forum, methinks.
now did i say anywhere in there i drank milk,,,??? and i dunno bout the safety in it,,, the dairy i ran was a closed herd ,,, n exactly for those reasons,,, we raised all of our own calves on site by us there was no middle man,,, for those that wish to take what i say out of context and make me out to sound angry so be it,,, aint meant that way but i can not help it that in your own mind you are so incensed by what you have seen through out your lives that it makes you angry,,,, yes i have seen that aspect too,,, but like i said before,,, just because what you have seen does not in any way shape or form mean that all are like that,,, taint that a bit stereotypical ,,,, but then again,,, i ferget that most here who seem to think they have the "hippy" frame of mind really in all actuality do not, for they still think within the preverbial box,,, albeit maybe to one extreme or another,,,, n by the way ,,, no i dont drink milk,,,,,
mmm seems aint none of them i have made have been right in some ppls eyes,,, but again,,, for me goes to thinkin in the box,,,, either way to the left of it all or way to the right,,,, seriously aint there been plenty a study sayin tis what tofu does to ya ???? ,,,
well unless your "perfect" dairy herd is supplying milk to the whole of the world that is reading this here, plus the cheese and the yoghurt that is consumed then I figure that people are perfectly within their rights to question the way that dairy farms operate... plus the one you are talking about sounds to me much like any I have ever seen and so what makes it better than the others? and why don't you drink milk just out of interest? I have no problem with anger,it is a brilliant emotion, just seemed to me that you were saying what people had already stated and I couldn't understand why you were aggro about it when what you were stating it as being common practice on your dairy farm and those very practices echoed the posts of others on dairy farming paractices... now that you are saying you don't drink milk yourself I am wondering if there is something I missed in your earlier posts that you intended to communicate?
What? Dilli, I am clueless as to what your last post said. AND I couldn't understand what you were attempting to communicate. (I was not refering to your post, Steph.)
just plain dont like milk,,, never have,,,,, but then i dont eat green food either,,,, weird i spose.... just meant that seems to me,,, no matter what i say here,,, it is wrong in the pples eyes of this forum,,,, cuz if ya dont go to one extreme in beliefs or the other,,, you are wrong,,, so what does it matter if i said tofu makes ya brain mushy,,, is it any more "wrong" than anything else i have said... as far as better than others,,, of course it was alot better than others... or i would not have worked there to begin with,, would be not within my own beliefs and what i feel is right in my eyes and what aint,,, i do not agree with alot of cow factories,, their practices or their ethics... therefore didnt work there,,,, reason i left where i was at,,, farm was changing,,, itwas becoming a factory not a family dairy,,, it was becoming something i dont like or believe in,,, was time for me to go since it no longer coincided with what n who i am,,,, ..
as far as I have been able to fathom a family dairy farm and a factory dairy farm have exactly the same stuff going on...family and factory in this case truly refer to the scale of the operation...not the way in which they conduct themselves.
nah goes further than that,, but not worth my energy or time to bother goin into ,,,, gotta chicken coop to finish n dinner to cook,,, in a family sorta way,,,, not that i expect ya to understand that tho
it is worth your time....well I think it is...if there are differences between family and factory dairy farms then I figure that I for one would like to hear of them... and what was the bit about family dinners or chicken coops that we weren't expected to understand? sorry...I got lost there...
i got soymilk and i cant really get used to the tast. Its weird to me. i can eat it w/ cereal but not a lone. the chocolate soymilk is alright but that has a funny tast to it too. I want to try the rice milk and vanilla soy milk. Just give those a try, you may like em.
you have to think, the dairy industry today is just that, an industry. nobody cares about the welfare of the animals, they care about the finished product and getting it in the easiest and cheapest manner possible without breaking any law. go to any grocery store, and youll see GALLONS upon gallons upon gallons of milk. now multiply that one grocery store by a really big number, and you have a lot of fucking milk, which means you have a lot of fucking cows, which means your wrecking havock on the environment via water pollution, air pollution via methane, and dont forget all the soil erosion and ruined land. and milk isnt even HEALTHY for us. and a lot of females to go to slaughter dilli, and a lot of them are lame or cant even walk by the time they make it after all the drugs theyve been pumped with, its a sad thing to see.
zackerly fractual,,, n there in lies the difference tween the old "family" farm and the factory farms,,,, the family farms were just that,, families working together to make good quality milk for those near n dear to them and keepin out of the poor house to do so,,, the BGH(bst) and other hormones were not used back in the day on a regular basis,,, the idea was not to have so many cows that ya had to hire 50 mexicans to care for them,,, there wasnt the competition to see how much milk n how quick ya could get exhorbitant amounts of milk,,, cows on the whole had better care, there werent so many on the farm that the family didnt know all the animals and all the habits,,,, of the animals,,, so folks knew when something wasnt right with one and it was taken care of,,, older cows, with bad feet n legs were either eaten or in there final days, let out to pasture to live out their days or at times sent for slaughterbut hey dogs gotta eat too right???,,, there is a HUGE difference tween the old time family type farms and what is out there today,,, i grew up on a hobby farm milked an ol famrers cows while growin up and then went into the dairy industry for over 15 years of nonstop inundation with it,,, it has changed it has gone down hill in my opinion,, it has become a factory n not a life style ,,, and yes indeed that is why i did leave it all besides being married to the farm,,, now, yes we have a small family farm here and the animals do receive the attention i feel they need and deserve ,,,, but yes we are homesteading and attempting sustainable farming as well so yes we do raise our stock for our food when it is something we here eat or others may eat,,, yes we are organic but we cant be certified organic because of our proximity to orchards , our critters are kept in pastures and cages,,, but not veal cages or individual pens,,, they have room to roam and be fairly free,, yes we do try n use all parts of animals we do use for meat,,, hides , bones etc,,, ,, we use the shit from them to fertilize , etc,,,, but to each their own and i spose if one doesnt like it then that is life,,, we all do what we feel we have to do to survive and live in a way which is morally right in our own eyes,,,,
