God says atheists are "fools"!

Nice "argument" bro.

 

consciousness of understanding; but nobody understood all of science and religion. So what does that mean? We know more than we understand. Religious people never claim to go beyond the understanding for the moment they are at need over.:biker:

 

Uhhmmmm, Christians are the ones who view everything as black and white????
Me thinks you should go take a look in the mirror and read the above post you made aloud to yourself.

Doesn't sound like you leave much room for gray in there yourself.

plus darlin' as scientific knowledge has increased especially in quantum physics, it is becoming more and more apparent that ANYTHING is possible and all the stuff you think is nailed down as "fact" is no more than probabilities that we observe more frequently than others.

My "argument" is that your statement belies that you most likely do not posses the education in either religion (as admitted by you) or science to proffer such dogmatic and final proclamations as you have.

 

Not by definition Or exclusively.

 

If everything is seen black and white that makes various shades of grey.

 

This is the exact point that I tried to make years ago which got shot down by my boss at the christian bookstore that I worked in for 3 years because "we already know everything we need to know" (that is a direct quote from my boss)

My apologies if I seem bitter, but my experience in trying to have that point of view AS a christian growing up was only negative.

 

No problem. :2thumbsup:
The Bible doesn't discourage learning or scientific endeavors.
It is our lack of knowledge that makes it appear that there are irreconcilable differences between religion and science, but they only exist due to our lack of information.
As knowledge increases, discrepancies decrease.

BUT, bear in mind that the part you emphasized with bold also means that what the Bible teaches is also a viable possibility.

folks often forget the flip side of it.

 

The flip side of a rock is often difficult to see unless you turn it over. Some rocks are fucking heavy. All views are concentric and not as hard and angular as some might think. To have a panoramic view we honor the thoughts of others, at least consider them capable of thinking if for no other reason than we share them, (thoughts).

 

I have yet to see a single discrepancy in christianity become unraveled by scientific evidence. If you have proof of such, please do, shoot them my way.

But I have a really hard time believing in a religion in which the very people who are supposed to be authoritative figures shoot down hard scientific evidence only to hold up their own bible as their textbook, when the majority of the time that I witnessed this, had nothing to do with any biblical evidence. They were simply shooting it down because it wasn't in the bible and therefore could not be true.

I am not completely opposed to the bible, mind you. I think the bible is an excellent tool in many different ways, I simply think that Christians take the bible far too seriously and it blinds them to the actual facts and hard evidence of the world. And I say that setting aside all bitterness because it affects not only their life, but the lives of those around them.

 

Well you do live in Tennessee, so a lot of it has to do with the "flavor" of Christianity you have been exposed to.

 

As I said above, I worked for a christian bookstore for 3 years. It was part of my job to be educated in my product and the belief that the product is truth. My problem was that the more I learned about the product I sold and the way people clung to every word the more I realized that the people that did so had no idea what half of those words meant and the more that turned me away. I spent 3 years (more extending beyond that...but it was my job for 3 years) turning over rocks, asking questions, seeking out answers about this truth that my boss, my coworkers, my pastor, and my churches 7,000+ members seemed so sure about.

Only to find out that they were only so sure of so much and any alternate interpretation that I could have was immediately shot down as wrong.
And then I realized that none of them cared what lied under my "stones" especially if it displayed a different idea than what they've been preaching/learning/ etc. EVEN IF, very little of it actually went against any biblical teachings. It was usually just a different, more accepting and loving way to interpret it.

I really should have seen it coming. When I was 12 I was yelled at, in my church, for questioning their doctrine. I was told that I was "stupid for not having blind faith" (their exact phrasing). But it wasn't until I was 21 that I finally just gave up. No one was willing to listen and answer my questions, and the more questions I asked myself, the more I came away with.

 

I think you misunderstand. As knowledge increases, the discrepancies disappear because they only exist in our perception of the reality, not the reality itself.
As scientific knowledge increases, some "miraculous" things become not so miraculous or supernatural.

 

Twelve is a common age to discover hypocrisy in life. That you give up speaks to your interest in having your questions answered.

Your experience could have taught you that god turns out to be any good cause we invoke.
What kind of questions did you have?

 

So you condemn the whole belief system because you were unfortunate to be stuck with assholes?

I always say if you judge a belief system by it's practitioners, you will always be disappointed.

 

Methodist, United Methodist, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Church of Christ (very very very early years), a tad bit of Catholic, and nondenominational.

Nondenominational was probably my best years, but over time I moved on because the more I got involved with them, the more it seemed like they didn't even seem to take themselves seriously. Which, in hindsight, was probably the most ideal with the direction I was going. I just got burnt out and tired of trying.

 

Truthfully, all things considered, I only really have hard feelings when this harsh christian view effects my life or the lives of people I care about. I understand Christianities role in society and still find it quite useful i.e. Jeffrey Dahmer.

In the end, I still have my own beliefs, all of which falls somewhere in between Buddhism and Naturalism. But I digress, that is a different discussion for a different forum.

 

The only harsh views that affect us are our own. A view cannot attack another view although you can try slapping me if that will make you feel better.

 

Okay.

That is a valid point, but I'd like to use an analogy...

Say you spend your whole life going to doctors...when you're young it's the doctors your parents chose for you, but as you get older you search for the right doctor for yourself...
But everyone that you go to malpractices. Each one is different, one might misdiagnose you with a disease, another ignores your symptoms altogether, and yet another just makes you downright uncomfortable.

Say this cycle continues...do you keep searching? Or do you go somewhere else?

While, we are lucky enough that this analogy is never actually a real problem, this is pretty much what I feel like I've dealt with in Christianity.

And when I give up and decide to go somewhere else, really that's no one's problem but my own. It was my choice. And ultimately, the only issue is my willingness to deal with the consequences of that decision. And seeing as one of my interpretations of Christianity is that there isn't nor ever was a Heaven or Hell, we create it for ourselves, my only consequence in this decision would be making my own happiness...which I haven't really had a problem with since I left Christianity. I find it much easier as well as more satisfying.

 

Do you care for what Santa Claus says? No? What about Winnie, the Poo?

Well, I couldn't care less for what the bible says.

 

Pound my monkey hole! Yeah I'm a monkey!