GOD ? or Evolution?

How much time dude, your running into a wall. Civilization started in 5,000 BC in the Harrapan civilization and 2500-3000 in Mesopotamia and Egypt. Now their finding early civilizations in South America, Japan and even northern Europe, that could've gone well past 10,000. Yet it also occurs the glacial retreat was supposedly in 10,000 Bc. I dunno man so even in 5000 years your saying from 10,000 bc they slowly evolved into having advanced knowledge of the solar system that wouldn't be revealed until the telescope? Its like I know in 2000 years we've gone from nothing, to computers but still I don't buy it. What about the sacred power of shapes and Geometry demonstrated in the Pyramids?

No Animals possess language like we do, they have communication skills, not vocal syllabalization, and word formation with complex meanings.
I don't mean cave paintings, I mean huge monuments, and stone statues of demi-gods.

First off I meant, the murder of Neanderthals was the favored theory of my class.

The annunaki is the only theory that makes sense. First off do you deny humans landed on the moon? If you do well then you won't be able to beleive in space travel.

What about all the mythologies that spawned off this original beleif to the Sumerians? Of alien gods, with human personalities and problems. I've made many posts about this, so has r33f3r M4nd3ss so if you'd like to know more ill give you a link, or just look it up on the net.

So this could go along with them being murdered by Homo Sapiens right? Obviously no chance of genetic engineering thats so specifically talked about in the Enuma Elish and other texts, about the alien gods.

5500 years ago humans were hunter-gatherers or simple farmers living in very small villages. Suddenly, 5 centers of civilization appeared: Egypt, Sumeria, Japan, Peru and the Indus Valley Civilization.

From the very beginning religion was of highest importance. Gods and deities demanded total subservience from humans and in Egypt this went as far as calling humans the cattle of the gods. Besides religion political systems were implemented to control the growing human population. Civilization experienced a very rapid expansion and within less than a thousand years was well established all over the planet.
Still can't admit the possibility?

Yea but who taught them how to use innovation? You don't build massive structures on your own. You make spears like you said, for killing beasts and lure them into a hole and stab them to death. Then feast and fuck. Then all the sudden one guy talks about the Pythagorean Theorem? Or the universal phi number that exists in all things. Hed prolly get kicked out of the circle, anyone ever try talking about intelligent shit at a party, doesn't last too long even nowadays.

The mudskipper is all yours. Mudguppy

Have you seen an in tact t-rex skeleton in person? Found in perfect condition bones completely in tact? What if the T-rex didn't have the faggy little arms and his back stayed relatively straight but could jump up like some dogs even can and take a few steps, just to intimidate an opponent?

How can you just jump and say they weren't competitive? DId Ghandi get through to them? How were some animals "not competitive" maybe they just were weaker and dumber, but they obviously didn't make a concious decision not to fight. Even so why didn't they go back then and revert and attempt to fight the chimps in the trees? If they couldn't beat Homo Sapiens, isn't that ture in everyday life. If your a competitor and you get owned you go own someone smaller and weaker than you.

Why wouldn't the common ancestor see the Chimps being succesfull and copy them and live in the trees. Why did they have to evolve at all? Because if we shared this common ancestor he had the physical talent and ability to swing and jump. Why not just go bac kto what he was used to if he couldn't keep up with this new human after a few generations?

Ok. Fine, but still if everything is so fight or flight SURVIVAL!!!!! minded why would they try and keep up with those out of their league. Instead of going back into the trees?

Probably under that term. Land ownership was the only thing that gave anyone power in nature. That's what the 3rd most frequent fights were caused by, after food, and sex. Everything was about land ownership. Don't say this to m6m or hell pull some repressed patriarchal neurotic want to have sex with your mother freudian crap on you. However that was an interesting article about the needs, I like the part that said studying the mentally ill only gives you an ill version of the psyche. Never thought of it that way. We should round up all the smart people in the world and put them in a room to be tested! Jk

Good point. I would have to actually refer to the mind of a healthy child, compared to a mentally impaired person.

If you can proove animals have a fear of death, Id like to show that to m6m cuz that will disprove his theories about the catalyst for rapid advancement as being this death-fear that was ego driven.
I don't think animals fear death, but if Im going to look into the chimps and tigers.

I mean within the homo sapiens ranks. Both with spears, they would've killed each other if they felt jealousy. Or just the superior dude with the garden stabbed them all I guess.

Yea. Poor pud

Characteristic of homo sapiens sapiens. I just consider civilization as a walled in group of houses. With central water and a central shrine, and a minor economoy Like the ancient cities at Uruk, and Babylon.

Cmon man what about our nickname
"The civilized ape"

Why not, If they had the same ancestor a few generations back why not just call it quits and go back to them. Im not talking like a thousand years year. I mean like 100. I didn't think chimps would be so elitist.

 

Egyptian pyramids. They were a really large-scale project, and required a civilization and a huge workforce. I could not find any information on japanese pyramids, and here's what I found on pottery. Please note that the source for the information about the oldest pottery is from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Not some highschooler's website.

They did evolve. Have you ever heard of a fossilized tiger or elephant? No. Their relatives, yes. Sabertooths and mammoths, but they became tigers and elephants. Evolution doesn't require perfection or intelligence or civilization. ALL it requires is survival.

Eating a mushroom will not affect your descendents. You can't pass on a mushroom. And I know I didn't eat a psychadelic mushrooms (or mushrooms at all, really) to give me special powers. If you believe in Atlantis, what's to stop you from believing in anything? If all you need for belief is an idea, then why not believe in scientology or fundamentalist christianity? Those are just as rational.

If you're gonna make these claims, provide a source.

They didn't evolve into having advanced knowledge. Intellectual advancement is not evolution, because it isn't genetic. The ability to think and solve problems maybe, and would give an advantage, but information and skills are not.

Advanced knowledge of the solar system? Like what?

Sacred power of shapes? How do the pyramids demonstrate that? The pyramid is a strong, stable structure, fit for a king. The pharoahs (I assume we're talking about Egypt when we say The Pyramids) would want something really big and long-lasting, to show how cool they are. They show the sacred power of astronomy more than shapes, 'cause they are aligned to Orion's Belt.

Birds? Birds sing all the time, and not just for kicks. Their songs mean something. Some can even speak english. Language is not a human trait. We can't communicate like other animals do. Whales cry, birds sing, some fish can click. Speaking of which, the African Bushmen use clicks, not vocal syllabization. If we have the ability to form many different sounds to comminicate ideas, why wouldn't we use it? If anything, our success would argue for evolution! Stone monuments and statues? What about it? You get to maslow's heirarchy, and get up to the spiritual level, and as a society, produce spiritual leaders specialized (remember?) to direct the worship or glorification or whatever of whatever god they say there is.

I don't deny that. Space travel is obviously possible. Inter-solar system travel? Inter-galactic? The nearest star is Proxima Centauri, which is something like 4.25 light years away. So travelling at light speed, it would take 4.25 years from the closest star to earth. We have yet to find any trace of like elsewhere in the universe, although we have found what look to be planets capable of supporting it, but they are nowhere near 4.25 light years away, and stuff can't travel at the speed of light (according to present data) anyways.

Yeah, lemme know. Although you should know that belief in gods has been pretty much present throughout human history.

Again, no, not murdered, just outcompeted.

How do you know? The earliest granery was apparently in Jordan at 9000BC. It obviously wasn't suddenly. Once people can communicate and decide that working together is better than fighting, civilization will make huge strides.

Within less than a thousand years? Where did that come from? And if these gods keep demanding subservience, where are they? Don't they care anymore? Christianity calls people sheep. So what? I'll admit that technically, there's a possibility of pretty much anything, like god planting fake fossils to test us, or the world being born from a giant lizard or whatever the hell you want to believe. However, it is not likely, there is no objective evidence to support it, and you only believe in it because you want it to be true.

You don't teach someone to use innovation. Innovation isn't a tool, it's a quality. If you are innovative, you will use your problem solving skills to succeed and multiply. You don't build massive structures on your own. You show to others how you can achieve greatness by working together, and then build massive structures. Possibly by rallying together and enslaving the next tribe over.

That came later. Pythagorus was around 500BC, in the golden age of greece, if I remember right. No, they probably would not come up with mathematics and abstract concepts like that if they were still fighting to stay alive.

That's 'cause the entire point of a party (it seems) is to show everyone how big of an idiot you can be. I've had a number of amazing intelligent, abstract, and philosophical conversations with those same people that pass out in their own vomit on occasion. If society is going ok, people have food to eat, and the basic essentials, inventions and new ideas will be welcomed. Among the scientists and like minds, if not the general populace.

Huh?

Ok, yes there's a possibility that those scientists who have studied these things for their whole lives and the guys who dug up the skeletons that may not have been completely intact, but were identifyable as the same organism were wrong, and the T-rex was really a brontasaurus with teeth. But there's also the possibility that the earth is flat, the sun is a giant light bulb, and I'm a cat randomly stepping on keys, but somehow coming up with the correct series of letters to form a cojent argument on evolution.

By not competitive, I don't mean they didn't want to put up a fight, I mean that while they were throwing rocks a deer hoping to knock it out, the next group up the evolutionary ladder were stabbing that deer with spears, and taking it home and eating it, and the rock-throwers went hungry. Go to someone smaller and weaker? It doesn't work like that. Elephants cannot say "hey guys, we're getting hunted to extinction, let's go take the ocean from the dolphins." The early humans were not fit for the trees. They were outcompeted by more advanced humans on the ground, and they weren't agile enough or skeletally formed to fit the tree environment. It was a lose-lose situation for them.

They couldn't. The trees would offer them even less advantage then the ground. Monkeys have ideal features for swinging through trees and not dieing. Early humans did not.

I don't think so. More the ability to use and live on land, not ownership. Ownership would mean you could sell it or rent it, which didn't happen until the 1500s.

That would be a pretty interesting experiment. If only...

Animals show the same fight-or-flight response people do. When faced with that situation, cats will try and look big so that they won't get killed, a horse will rear up or run, birds fly away when you come near because that way you can't kill them. All animals have an interest in staying alive.

It doesn't take much brainpower to figure out that working together will benefit both parties more than fighting. Even so, people have obviously been killing each other for the most ridiculous crap since forever, though when both of you are working hard to stay alive, you probably won't be as interested in stupid stuff like that.

But not all humans have/had that. Therefore, it is only a capability. And it's not related to genetics, except that the brain configuration allows that kind of activity.

We're smarter, organized, and advanced. As a species, we are civilized, but it wasn't always that way. Would you consider every human on earth today civilized?

They couldn't go back to them. They were different. If a tree-monkey society gives rise to a ground-semi-monkey group offshoot which gets outcompteted somewhere down the road (which would be more than 100 years) the nth generation of these guys can't be like - look at those monkeys and their proliferation, let's do what they do. They don't have any knowledge that they came from them, and neither do the tree-monkeys. If the newer guys tried to join the tree-monkeys, they would fall behind, 'cause they aren't as good in trees as on the ground, and probably would not be accepted into the group. Vanilla Coke cannot become Original Coke just because it isn't doing so well. It's still Vanilla.

 

You see religion is like a disco ball... every single person on the earth could be look at the same disco ball and yet they would each see and take away a different view.

 

Science and religion have different goals. Science is based on the scientific method while religion is based on faith. They can co-exist and evolution does not 'kill God.'

 

Well, while there is no "evidence" that proves God exists, there are certain things about the bible that have proven something about it... For instance, the Bible claims "The life of the flesh is in the blood" in the old testement, but it wasn't until the past few hundred years that people found that out! The Bible mentioned the existance of groups of people that archeologists claimed never existed and were part of a fictional bible story, but they were later discovered. One has to admit it IS a little uncanny that the Bible claims things that no one knows until several thousand years later, and its accuracy to certain things like that. There are also some pieces of evidence that point towards a worldwide flood, like that of noah, and almost every culture has a similiar story.

However, there is no conrete evidence of the existance of God. However, the beleif in a higher being claims to be a faith, not a fact. If we knew it concretely, then we wouldn't have faith.

Evolution takes faith to. There is no concrete evidence of evolution either. There may be a couple leads, but there are a lot of missing link and stuff, and nothing about it has been completely proven. However, unlike faith, evolution claims to be fact but has yet to back itself up.

I hope that helped out some, I didn't read the 20-something pages of replies so I may have coppied some people, sorry if I did. But I hope that helps you see another perspective on it.

 

Any good scientist will tell you evolution is a theory, a very sound theory. Obviously no one can go back in time to see how it all began, but there is overwhelming evidence that supports evolution. Just ask any biologist or geologist.

The Great Flood is one event that is in the Bible and there is evidence of. The theory goes when the ice age ended and the glaciers melted rapidly many places had a flood of biblical proportions. There is evidence in geology dating 10,000 to 50,000 years ago(im not an expert) as well as most tribes and have a great flood story.

The fact there is such a debate on evolution vs God proves.in my own mind, that most of us are still primative creatures.

 

Untrue, if you can communicate and teach you can learn. If you can learn from shrooms you can communicate that and teach. It wouldn't be genetic, it would just be cultural mind expansion.

Look at your own link on pottery. Says 10,000-8,000 for the Jomon pottery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harappan_civilization
thats for the Indus Valley, look at the bar on the right. 7,000 to 3,500 bc

so Id say it began around 5,000

The pyramids are aligned to orions belt. Akhenaten the pharoah revealed a religion about a god the Aten, which is manifest power of heat and light in the universe. Showing the Sun was the center of the galaxy, and the earth revolved around it. He showed the Phi symbol and the natural spiral it makes. They knew the galaxy was a spiral, they knew the Pyramid was one way to find this number geometrically http://goldennumber.net/geometry.htm. This is one way it was a sacred shape, being part of the template to find the golden mean of all life.

The pyramid shape also has a pyramid energy, that creates an invisible upside down opposite right above it. It works with the earths magnetic field to create a resonance inside that can perserve. This is why they thought they should put their mummies there as to perserve them longer until a time of genetic manipulation and they could be cloned. As their dna would stay in tact longer. Thats why you here of new age goons and hippies building pyramid shaped houses, and refridgerators. It has an effect but nothing dramatic. Yet still for this to be known in the bc era? Cmon now.

Can't take this paragraph seriously dude.

So what, they never came out with any advanced culture so it would make sense they spoke in a strange fashion.

What if they could?

But then why would they all have similar creation myths and same pantheons of gods? Yet the super continent would've been way before 5,000 bc? Obviously they never interacted. What would give them the same beleifs in the same gods?

We owned them. They were scared of mankind. Thats why they tried to destroy us once with a flood. Could be underwater, could've went back to Niburu, could still be here. Pushing us into this hell away from each other. The allegory of the tower of babel. All mankind and religion breaking down and going against each other because of our lost common ground. Only when we rebuild the tower of babel will they return, and unite as one people, because that is what makes us dangerous to them obviously.

According to the Mayans they were going to return. Same with the Aztecs, thats why Cortez, was treated like a god.

Its a known fact all of Hellenistic greece was a result of greek philosophers going into the Egyptian schools to learn, against the will of Athens. It had to start somewhere they didn't just make it up. THe library of Alexandria was host to millions of texts that were copied and called their own by the Greeks.
There were right triangles before Pythagoras, if they were built someone obviously knew how to make them equivalent. Greece robbed Egypt. Its a fact.

haha true.

PWNT!

Why? why didn't they all evolve into the advanced humans right away? Why couldn't they go back to being apes in a few years after they saw they wouldn't survive. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO COMMON ANCESTOR.

Wouldn't they do anything to survive then?
Why didn't nature allow them to revert back to their monkey roots. Plus I mean a few years again. 100 years at the most. They see their offspring aren't succeeding like the other early humans, why not just go to the trees. Because if there was a chimp and man common ancestor, he had the capabilities to do what a chimp would do.

Why not after 100 years then? Just call it quits and go back to the trees, before it totally develops the vanilla. Its just another big loophole in this theory. It makes sense, but its more unbeleivable then genetic engineering by aliens. How there aren't any survivors. That only have a little bit of vanilla in them.

Rad discussion but what Im proposing is just way more logical and beleivable. Especially in modern day man. If we can send people to the moon, discover light photons, dna, advanced mathematics, and genetic engineering is within our grasp if religious nuts would stop saying its unethical. What is going to happen in even the next 20 years of science? What if we find out light travel is possible? and genetic engineering is just as easy? Where are we left to go? We're basically there already.

 

Here's what was stated: "I'll stick to my beleif that our common ancestor was an ape evolved to a point from the help of fire and mushrooms, and then was altered and turned into modern man."

Neither fire nor mushrooms make things evolve. And why would it make any sense for an ape to eat a mushroom, and for that mushroom to organize thoughts in that ape's head that will allow him to succeed? From what I know about people eating mushrooms, they don't organize anything.

Well that's quite a shot in the dark. You're probably much closer than all those archaeologists who have spent their lives in the pursuit of knowledge about just such a thing as the dawn of civilization.

Problem 1 - Akhenaten didn't come around until around 1300BC, and the orion-aligned pyramids in Giza came about a thousand years prior to that.
Problem 2 - The pyramid was the one way to find the number geometrically? You can make a pyramid any way you want. Alter the height of the equation on your web page there a little bit, and it doesn't fit anymore. Turns out the pyramids don't fit, and never did. The side is 231m long. The height is 146.5m. Those are known numbers. That means that in the little diagram of the pyramid with phi, the "1" is 231, the Phi^1/2 is 146.5, and Phi is 1.618x231. Now you try and make phi^(1/2) (and remember, Phi is 1.618x231) equal 146.5, and get back to me.
Problem 2 - The sun isn't a source of heat and light in the galaxy, and isn't for most of the solar system in any significant way. Nor is it the center of the galaxy. And I don't have a source for any of those claims anyways.

Yeah. Uh huh. Show me. The closest thing to a pyramid house I know of is an A-frame, which isn't a pyramid. Refridgerators? What? Prove you're not making this up.

Do I really need to explain this? No, birds can't understand english. They can make the sounds. Parrots, crows, and ravens can all be trained to speak english words. No they won't have an intelligent conversation. Yes, they can make the sounds.

Are they uncivilized? Do they have villages, huts, religion? Do they use tools to hunt and make work easier? My point is vocalization is a human capability, not a characteristic. Are you going to deny that they are human?

1- it would take a huge amount of resources to achieve.
2 - Your entire belief is based on "what ifs."

Please remind me of what gods they had in common. And creation myths. Or give a source.

Why will they return when we are more dangerous to them? If they are underwater, how are they alive? Where is this Nibiru? And what makes you think any floods intended to destroy the human race occured and/or were caused by aliens? Give me some damn evidence!

So what? That indicates nothing, is evidence of nothing, and christians believe the same thing, but their "god" was human.

Why didn't they make it up? People can't think new things now? Show me some evidence, stop just saying it's a known fact.

For a right triangle, you don't need an equation. All you need to make it is a right angle and three straight lines. Pythagoras obviously didn't invent right triangles, but he was the first to realize that the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the square of one side plus the square of the other.

Evolution is not a decision one makes. It doesn't happen to a person. It happens between generations, to a species. They didn't all evolve 'cause evolution of a new species starts with only one or a few members, and the rest stay the same. They can't say "those guys are doing well, let's evolve too." If that were the case, I would be a frickin' 200-foot dragon that breathes fire with machine guns for hands and a jet engine growing out of my back.

But I'm not.

Yes. But moving to the trees would not help them. They didn't do well in the trees. They did well on land, just not well enough to compete with the more advanced species.

Nature doesn't make decisions. In 100 years at the most, very little evolution will occur, and definitely not enough to create a ground species from a tree species and then a more advanced ground species.

No, he didn't have the capabilities to do what a chimp could do. Early humans LOST the ability to survive in the trees when the gained the ability to survive on the ground. That was the only place they could live, and they had to do their best with it.

Like I said, can't go back to trees. Can't happen. They are not chimps, they can only live on the ground.

For the vanilla coke metaphor, consumers=evolutionary force, ok? NOBODY WANTS a little vanilla. The people that like original coke want no vanilla, and the one or two guys who want vanilla want as much frickin' vanilla as they can get. If it has even a little vanilla, it's too much for the original guys, but if it only has a little, the people that like vanilla with just stick with vanilla coke. Nobody wants Little-Bit-O'-Vanilla Coke.

It's not a question of believable, it's a question of what is there evidence for? There's a buttload of evidence for evolution, such that about 99% of people who study science go with the evidence. There's zero evidence for your thing, and it's not believable anyways! Apes ate mushrooms and evolved into early humans, and aliens came down to fuck up their genes?! Now their hiding from us underwater or on Nibiru?

Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

We have cars, right? Why not theorize that monkeys found a car. Maybe there was a cell phone inside. The cell phone made him smart, and he drove the car to what is now New York City, and there was a genetics lab magically put there, so he used his new brains to alter his genes and become human, and then burned the place and the car.

You know why nobody believes that? 'Cause not only is it ridiculous, there's no evidence for it.

Again, you believe what you do because that's what you want to be the case. Maybe you like psychadelic mushrooms, so you let them have a part in the success of humans. You want there to be more life in the universe than us, so there is. Christians aren't cool with gay sex, so whattaya know, gays go to hell. 'Cause an omniscient and loving god would care about the gender of who you sleep with. There is NO evidence for any of the stuff you believe in, just as there is no evidence for any other god or creation story. And I'm at the point where I can't really tell if you're screwing with me, or if you really believe all this crap.

However, I will again state the obvious: You don't understand evolution.

Here. Read the Mechanisms part.

 

There are many other species than humans who have the ability to communicate. Koko the gorilla and friends know over 1,000 signs and can communicate with us and certainly have thier own language with each other as all the other primates do. Dolphins and whales have complex languages too, they even name themsleves.

Anyone who dismisses evolution with stupid analogies and fuzzy logic are closed minded fools and are probaly imcapable of understanding genetics.

The best argument by creationists against evolution I've heard is it gives humans the right to behave like beasts. Ironically religion has forced people to behave like savages, wars over holy lands and who's God/prophet is better is as old as mankind and still continues to this day.

 

Well obviously you've never had a mushroom experience. Explain to me then why Mayans and other mushroom cultures flourished in Mexico and had advanced astronomical and cellestial calendars?

The argument we're all having is about evolution. We all have sources about what came after it. All we're saying is yes, evolution did happen, it happens naturally, but evolution is not the reasoning for the modern human mind. Yes, it did create the human like creatures prior to us, but then one day, something happened, which I beleive was a possible alien encounter, and we were permanently changed from there, this would be the basis for the Garden of Eden story.

Now, I do not question evolution, I beleive it happened naturally, just like weather patterns and the tides, the flowers blooming, and the rise and fall of the sun. I also beleive ape's brains developed with the help of psyloocibin mushrooms. But explaining how evolution, a natural occurance of breeding, primative nature, and clans of apes competing, cannot fully explain how we took such a gigantic leap by just altering cell structures in our dna by breeding and eating certain food. There was some link that altered us and made us evolve light years ahead of the pack. I also think if we had not been altered, we would have eventually evolved into what we are, with technology and advanced industry and agriculture, but over the course of many thousands of more years.

As for pyramids in Japan - http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html

Also, the pyramid energy thing is widely discussed topic and I had heard about it reading on the net, and then I also saw an experimented tested on Mythbusters about it. They tested meat in open structures of shapes, and then closed structures. The open pyramid structure didn't do anything, but the closed pyramid structure did. Hmm...

Also, I was watching history channel about the pottery in South America, that was my source. Supposedly going back 50,000 - 100, 000 years. Pottery depicting men performing surgery, advanced machines, etc. Atlantis? Quite possibly.

As far as the ridiculous beliefs, brush up on your Sumerian history too. It will explain a lot, seeing as how they were the first people to record their history, as well as having their Gods be related to the rest of the pantheon. Read some of Zacharia Sitchin's work. You have to keep in mind all the history you learn in school, only scratches the surface. And all these crazy theories, aren't just made up. They are all connected like tiny fibers in a giant puzzle slowly being put together by fellow esoteric's on the internet. You should be thankful for people like us who question traditional beliefs that have been institutionalized. And no, none of this is made up. All of our words can be cited so some specific site of literature, it's just a pain in the ass to do it. We're not assholes or scam artists, merely providing an alternative solution.

Shit, people used to beleive the Earth was flat and killed people over it. Now we kill people over religion. Don't you think it's worth trying to figure out even if it sounds silly at the time?

 

Not really it says so right there dude.

I didn't say that. I said this knowledge was known to the elite and the royal in ancient times. They were initiated through schools of knowledge. I didn't say HE BUILT THEM.

Solar System our planets, that revolve around the sun. The fact that this sun gives earth its orbit and position to have life in the first place. The ATen was not the physical sun, the sun iteself is only a representative, of the higher powers. Whatever is at the center of the galaxy and the universe. This is the aten, its the powers of heat and light. Don't say heat and light don't impact life, or your about to sound like a real dumbass.

But it was my B cuz I confused solar system with galaxy. What do you mean heat and light aren't the main causes of life? Are you rewriting science books now?

It doesn't matter if it connects and forms a pyramid shape, it automatically applies this ratio. That wasn't the point, that the site says it equals the Great Pyramid! Its the fact that using a pyramid structure you can find the phi ratio, proving it a worthy esoteric symbol of sacred geometry.

Dude do you watch tv? Not everything has a link on the god damn internet.

Im speaking from general knowledge on this one.

No but they are third world. Obviously them living in Africa in a hot climate has caused them no need to evolve anymore right. So what does that proove? Of course they're human.

Not at all. That only applies to that specific question.
What if a geological climate shift was the catalyst for our rapid evolution!

Evolution is all what Ifs too. Is there proof one happened? Some, ohh! This justifies it, and not the other thousand possibilities we could think of! This also justifies Evolution as being the major scientific breakthrough that allowed the wide appeal of Communism to the PEOPLE! Remember that? How quickly people jumped on the atheist communist bandwagon when this came out?

You sure all this isn't just propoganda dragged on way to far?

http://www.halexandria.org/dward186.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/names_gods.html

HISTORY SAYS, WESTERN CIV MIGRATED FROM THE FERTILE CRESCENT.
The annunaki were the oldest, the Sumerian.
Evolution says man migrated from East and North Africa to the middle east Then ON.
Matches up so far?
All Pagan systems, recognize different versions of these gods made with their own Ethnocentricity during their migrations, and early settlements.
The dominant classes, changed them around as all of polytheistic pagan societies evolved. According to history books. If you want me to go outside mainstream history I will.

About the Creation myth, here is the Sumerian annunaki version.
The gods were dredging the rivers,
were piling up their silt
on projecting bends--
and the gods lugging the clay
began complaining (Jacobsen, Harps 154)

Indicating the need for slave labor. Right? Just like I said.

http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/SumerianMyth.htm

Goes on to describe how human embyros were physically made, by physical gods with physical genetic engineering.
Obviously connected to Genesis of the bible.
The article tells about the deluge from their perspective
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(mythology)
this gives you an overview.
Almost every culture shares these in common? Is that a synchronicity or what?
It has nothing like this a quote from the greek creation story

Gaea loved her children, however, and hated Uranus' tyranny. She supplied her youngest child, Chronos, with a sickle, and told him to kill his father with it. He cut off Uranus' genitals, and these fell into the sea and from them were created Aphrodite, the goddess of love, and the Fates, the Giants, and the Meliai nymphs. Chronos succeeded Uranus on the throne and married his sister Rhea. He freed the Titans and shared his kingdom among them, but imprisoned the Cyclopes and the Hecatoncheires in Tartarus, a fiery pit much like Hell.

Zeus was raised on the island of Crete and grew into a handsome youth. Eventually he slipped Chronos a drink to vomit up his other five siblings, and they and Prometheus, one of the Titans, fought and defeated Chronos and the Titans for power. Zeus ruled the earth and married his sister Hera; the gods together created humans to entertain and amuse them as they watched from their home on Mount Olympus. YEt you still see where they have maintainted the truth. Talking about the 5 ages of man in relation to their own creation. These align very well with the ante-deluvian Sumerian account of what exactly went on in this amazing genetic testing zone. Obviously the origin of most Greek myth.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/grecoromanmyth1/a/hesiodagesofman.htm


THe annunaki were here on earth, using genetics. Not vomiting up their children. You see with the migrations of man these original stories were corrupted, and changed to agree with the times and predominant elite. Not even in a bad way were they corrupted I just mean made more unrealistic to appeal to those who cared little for the type of things.

So do you understand this major aspect of my arguement? If you want to go against people migrating from the fertile crescent be my guest, but don't claim you beleive in evolution then. Go against History as well by saying Sumeria is not the oldest documented civilization in western culture.

Niburu is what scientists refer to as planet X nowadays.

If they are underwater, man haven't you ever seen the Abyss?

Its just the fact that the sumerian description as well as most polythestic cultures beleived that thest Gods were physical beings, doing physical things. In a real place visible to the human eye.

Alien in the sense of an ET! WAS UNHEARD OF UNTIL MODERN TIMES.

You think an extra terrestrial alien would be even thought of in the translation of Greek texts of ancient times to English?

It would always be transferred as God.

According to the next disaster it is a trial by fire. Not water.
Thats why according to the Egyptians Thoth hid 2 tablets one to withstand a flood and and one to withstand fire.

Christians beleive Jesus Christ is going to return.

Not a race of gods. Jesus Christ was human not God. To the catholics he made up the trinity.

A race of Gods were going to return headed by Queztlcoatl, a messenger god.

They said they would come sailing in on clouds. A fitting description for the Spanish ships. Did you skip this page in the middle school history book?
You know alot about what they have to say of Khufis pyramid and 2000 bc though.

Research Alexander the Great, and when he conquered Egypt. The library of Alexandria as HE named it was open to the Greeks for the first time on a national level. Greeks went and learned there. This was the origin of the Hellenstic Greek period. Its very simple. Borders were weakend under Alexander. Less warfare, its too much to type it all out.

Yea so, they were obviously around then before him. All he did was point out the obvious.

Still goes nowhere for you proving a missing link.

 

Bullshit. Plain and simple, your saying evolution is slow, then your saying its fast. Theres no proof of this right here and your just dragging it out. THey had the capabilities. Im talking that guy that could swing in the trees and walk, would still be around, or fossilized at least. Theres no way it could just go in 2 directions.

Who are you to speak for evolutionary force. The LIttle bit o Vanilla wanted to STAY AROUND. I THOUGHT THATS WHAT MATTERED? The desire to survive. LIttle bit of cola doesnt give a shit with the evolutionary force things. What force are you speaking of anyway? I thought things were totally random and not connected? This force is not the same force Im talking about is it? WHen I was speaking of Akhenaten and the Aten and its relationship to the universe.

Not at all. Mushrooms make you produce. Look at classic rock. Mushrooms give you empathy, and illumination. The Annunaki records, history, and evolution of man from the fertile crescent all proove me right.

Thats stupid bullshit again.

I just gave you plenty of evidence. I can tell you whats wrong with the Christian god right now.

Took Enlil one of the annunaki, masked him in the Aten. Organized all rituals of Enlil into a new fasion under new names, and call it Judaism! A god that is omnipresent and the cause of human life, and all life on earth, into a slave driving god that gives demands and speaks of an after-life of paradise or misery. Corrupted by the Jews, Christians and Muslims.
Its true Judaism was a henotheism meaning they beleive in many gods (annunaki) yet thoguht one was only worth worshipping (Enlil). The lord of war, the vengeful god declaring submission, and restriction on sex, drugs, free thinking, philosophy. Only emphasizes following orders and punishment.

Then added from Enki, the all loving aspect. They made an abomination. A mash of characteristics of these annunaki maskes in the all god.

 

Well obviously you've never had a mushroom experience. Explain to me then why Mayans and other mushroom cultures flourished in Mexico and had advanced astronomical and cellestial calendars?



The argument we're all having is about evolution. We all have sources about what came after it. All we're saying is yes, evolution did happen, it happens naturally, but evolution is not the reasoning for the modern human mind. Yes, it did create the human like creatures prior to us, but then one day, something happened, which I beleive was a possible alien encounter, and we were permanently changed from there, this would be the basis for the Garden of Eden story.



Now, I do not question evolution, I beleive it happened naturally, just like weather patterns and the tides, the flowers blooming, and the rise and fall of the sun. I also beleive ape's brains developed with the help of psyloocibin mushrooms. But explaining how evolution, a natural occurance of breeding, primative nature, and clans of apes competing, cannot fully explain how we took such a gigantic leap by just altering cell structures in our dna by breeding and eating certain food. There was some link that altered us and made us evolve light years ahead of the pack. I also think if we had not been altered, we would have eventually evolved into what we are, with technology and advanced industry and agriculture, but over the course of many thousands of more years.



As for pyramids in Japan - http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html



Also, the pyramid energy thing is widely discussed topic and I had heard about it reading on the net, and then I also saw an experimented tested on Mythbusters about it. They tested meat in open structures of shapes, and then closed structures. The open pyramid structure didn't do anything, but the closed pyramid structure did. Hmm...



Also, I was watching history channel about the pottery in South America, that was my source. Supposedly going back 50,000 - 100, 000 years. Pottery depicting men performing surgery, advanced machines, etc. Atlantis? Quite possibly.



As far as the ridiculous beliefs, brush up on your Sumerian history too. It will explain a lot, seeing as how they were the first people to record their history, as well as having their Gods be related to the rest of the pantheon. Read some of Zacharia Sitchin's work. You have to keep in mind all the history you learn in school, only scratches the surface. And all these crazy theories, aren't just made up. They are all connected like tiny fibers in a giant puzzle slowly being put together by fellow esoteric's on the internet. You should be thankful for people like us who question traditional beliefs that have been institutionalized. And no, none of this is made up. All of our words can be cited so some specific site of literature, it's just a pain in the ass to do it. We're not assholes or scam artists, merely providing an alternative solution.

Shit, people used to beleive the Earth was flat and killed people over it. Now we kill people over religion. Don't you think it's worth trying to figure out even if it sounds silly at the time?

 

R33F3R - I can go for some of that. I don't think that the beliefs of those people in the mesopatamian peninsula are evidence of anything more than beliefs. I think the similarites between many different ones are indeed evidence of a similar origin of humanity (but not aliens), and also of similar brain chemistry.

Nimrod - You don't get evolution, and arguing it with a flawed knowledge of it does nothing to support your case. You're looking at evolution as too conscious of a thing. It is only chemical and biological. And logical, too, I suppose. It's only logical that a more fit individual will have a better chance of surviving and reproducing than a less fit individual. But the basic mechanism is mutation, which is chemistry. Maybe a little physics. Biology results from the chemical changes in ways I don't think you understand.

A number of your argument regarding your own theories are flawed. A pyramid will only give you phi if you have the correct width to height ratio, which you would need phi to get anyways. I am not going to further research your beliefs for a couple of reasons:
1. I'm just not interested, and I don't at this moment believe there's a shred of actual evidence for it.
2. If I were to research it and discover that my mind had changed and I now believed that, nothing else in my life would change. It would be like if someone were to convince me that jesus's middle name was mortimer. It's kinda funny, but so what?
3. I'm just really tired of this conversation, where I can make my points over and over, and even though they are scientifically proven (demonstrated), you fail to either understand or concede them. That makes for a very boring and repetetive debate.

In conclusion, I suggest you learn how evolution works. If you can't find an explanatory page on the internet, find a biology major to talk to in person, 'cause it's much easier that way.

 

Give me one instance of something I said that would show I don't have knowledge of Evolution.

You can't just say that without giving an example. Its not like your the one trying to present an abstract theory that obviously cannot get through to someone whos knowlege of culture, mythology, and history only goes past a 10th grade history book.

I was just presenting questions. Maybe if we were talking about shit on a cellular level and evolution of microscopic organim pieces.

What exactly did I say proving that I don't know evolution.
All you said was the last known link between man and chimp, had such a large gap between them that they were not capable of reverting back to the older ways of this "common ancestor".

Obviously this common ancestor had talents to do both of these things. You cannot explain this statement your making about missing links correctly.

You still cannot understand the fact, that according to history of western civ, civilization began in the fertile crescent, and migrated to the rest of the western world.

You cannot understand the fact that this matches up with what evolution has to say, about early man transforming from a "common ancestor" of apes. The closest relative being the chimp, which had the least distance between homo erectus and the common ancestor. They began in Africa. Migrated to the fertile crescent.

Now tell me what illogical mindframe are you thinking in. That would not connect the oldest known religion and mythology, with the Sumerians, who were the first of the big cultural peoples in this region.

Dating back to this being the closest time that humanity was last one. Before the great Ism Schism.

What makes you so stuck up, that you can't even recognize this fact. Then incorporate their great religion and mythology into a world view.

Said there were ALIEN LIFE FORMS, IN THIS PHYSICAL REALM. NOT ZEUS ON MT OLYMPUS THROWING LIGHTNING BOLTS, AND VOMITTING UP HIS CHILDREN.

Not Odin hanging himself on a tree for 9 days and nights to learn the knowledge of the runes.

Not a fuckin she wolf raising little Romulus.

It was an ET genetic lab. Where embryos were created, the old humans were "mutated genetically" then became known as sapiens sapiens.
It wasn't spoken in heavy metaphors, it was simple and understandable. It never claimed there were any extra metaphysical interpretations of the text or anything. What was there, was there, because it was real.

This mythology then comes about in a time thats unexplained? A sudden jump, that you claim didn't exist even though every single Anthropology professor would tell you otherwise. Occured rapidly with no explaination. There are only theories, just like there are only theories why Neanderthal man dissappeared, and homo erectus was over run by sapiens sapiens.

How can you say this is all coincidence?

All the sudden man just gets super smart, then decides to build cities and monuments and temples to the alien gods that enlightened them.

That they say came down from heaven to earth on flying objects.

Obviously the place where humanity was most concentrated before they began migrating north, and in all directions, would be where the original beleifs stayed the most in tact.

You wanna know the funny thing about the Annunaki though. That I was only gonna say, if you had some kind of respectful intelligent response to this theory, was that they looked HUMAN. THEY LOOKED LIKE HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS. Thus explaining why the Elohim of Genesis fashioned man in Their appearance. Remember Elohim the Hebrew word used in Genesis when speaking of man's creation, is a plural word. Not the singular God that created the universe in the previous chapters.

This is the ultimate truth of it all however. Most descriptions of the annunaki have been etched out of the stone tablets. Just like a few lines in the Epic of Gilgamesh, ending on he was 1/3 man and 2/3s god. Then its crossed out after that, showing that obviously someone did not want to us to know what he looked like. The most logical reason, would be ethnocentricity, of when the white man translated all these texts and became the dominant race of western culture. I however, beleive this was done to show this true relation to the god men that morphed us.

What if the space men were ourselves from the future. Gone back in time, and splicing our own DNA, and creating ourselves?

 

THey had the capabilities. Im talking that guy that could swing in the trees and walk, would still be around, or fossilized at least. Theres no way it could just go in 2 directions.

The LIttle bit o Vanilla wanted to STAY AROUND. I THOUGHT THATS WHAT MATTERED? The desire to survive.

why didn't they all evolve into the advanced humans right away? Why couldn't they go back to being apes in a few years after they saw they wouldn't survive.

Wouldn't they do anything to survive then?
Why didn't nature allow them to revert back to their monkey roots. Plus I mean a few years again. 100 years at the most. They see their offspring aren't succeeding like the other early humans, why not just go to the trees. Because if there was a chimp and man common ancestor, he had the capabilities to do what a chimp would do.

Why not, If they had the same ancestor a few generations back why not just call it quits and go back to them. Im not talking like a thousand years year. I mean like 100. I didn't think chimps would be so elitist.

Ok. Fine, but still if everything is so fight or flight SURVIVAL!!!!! minded why would they try and keep up with those out of their league. Instead of going back into the trees?
-------------------------------------

Is that enough? Prettymuch everything you've said or asked concerning evolution has been flawed. I'm gonna give you a quick run-down of evolution right now.

The basis of life, species, and evolution is DNA. There are 4 Nitrogenous bases that connect together in a really friggin' long chain to make a DNA molecule, and the pattern of those bases control what the organism will be like. They are organized into groups of 3, called codons, copied, and sent out of the nucleus of the cell to be decoded. Each codon codes for one amino acid, which is the basic unit of a protein. Nitrogenous BaseNA = Amino Acidrotein. That is the basis for all cell activity, and hence all activity of multicellular organism, i.e. us.

Mutations change the order of nitrogenous bases and can either change small number of amino acids by switching one nitrogenous base with another, or can mess up large segments of the protein, and render it nonfunctional, by inserting or deleting base pairs from the sequence, and hence shifting the entire frame of reference for the codons. A codon sequence of AGT/AGT/AGT/AGT etc. can become ATA/GTA/GTA/GTA just by deleting that one G. The only codon that might still code for the same amino acid there is the first one.

UV light causes mutations by inserting a TT into a random spot. X-rays mutate, gamma rays, microwaves, a whole ton of stuff mutates your cells, and if you try to avoid it all, you're gonna have to live in a cement room with the lights off and not eat or drink or breathe. So, everyone's cells mutate.

Since a large portion of the DNA is not used for protein coding (or anything else, as far as we know), called introns, most mutations have no effect at all. Again, as far as we know. The cell also has correcting enzyme complexes for DNA, so most mutations that occur anywhere are corrected. Only something like .00001 mutations stay, which is good, 'cause mutations happen all the time. Of the mutations that stay, most are in the introns, 'cause they account for somewhere between 75 and 95 percent of DNA. Of the mutations that have an effect, most are bad. It can cause cancer, mess up a certain protein, and any number of things that go wrong with the cell. It's usually ok, 'cause the cell will get weak and either lyse itself (committing suicide), or be unable to live anymore, in which case, it is replaced by a neighboring cell. Sometimes it causes cancer. And once, once in a while, a mutation is beneficial.

That's not to say that the organism that has the mutation changes. An early human cannot get a mutation and change into an advanced human. It CANNOT happen.

In order for evolution to occur, the organism has to have a couple things happen.
1. A Beneficial mutation(mutation that isn't corrected, in a protein-coding length of DNA)...In a reproductive cell. That means a sperm or ovum.
2. That particular sperm must reach the egg and fertilize it, out of the millions-billions of others, or that ovum must be the one in some 60,000 or something that is fertilized.
3. The fertilized egg, also called a zygote, must go through a stable pregnancy and be born, and survive to adulthood, and reproduce, hopefully a lot.

So the chances are really small. You can see why it would take a long time for evolution, especially if the population is small. I think Africa and the equatorial area in general is where a lot of evolution occurs because there's more sunlight and energy being added to mutate stuff.

So the individual with the good mutation survives, and let's say it's a deer with antlers, and in this scenario, none of the other deer have antlers. So this deer is born, and as it grows, it gets antlers. This means that if it's attacked by a wolf, it will be much better at defending itself than the others. It also means that if it wants to challenge another male (he's male, by the way) for a mate, he'll do better in a fight. This deer can do prettymuch whatever it wants. It'll eat a lot, even if food is limited, 'cause he'll eat more than his fair share, and he'll mate with a disproportionate number of females, and have a disproportionate number of offspring. And each of these offspring will have that gene for antlers. Let's call the original deer with antlers Deer1. His kids are Deer2, and the next generation is Deer3 and so on. Some of Deer2 will have antlers. Depending on whether the allele is dominant or recessive, all of them may, or none. The gene is probably dominant, so all of them do. The males anyway. Deer2 will again increase the proportion of antlered deer to unantlered deer, by mating with more females than the unantlered males, and females with the gene will pass on the gene, even if they mate with a male that doesn't have it. Eventually, all deer will be antlered, and if any weird combination of genes in the future makes an unantlered deer, it'll be at a severe disadvantage.

So let's say the deer population is 1000 before Deer1. And it'll stay constant, because the environment they're in cannot support more deer in terms of food, water, and space. When Deer1 comes about, the proportion of antlered deer to the total is 1:1000. Since he mates to a buncha females, the proportion in Deer2 is 15:1000. Since they mate with a buncha females, Deer3 is 200:1000, Deer4 is 350:1000, and so on somewhere down the road, maybe Deer15, it's at 999:1000, and that one deer without the gene is screwed.

That's basically evolution. The deer didn't choose to change. The deer without antlers can't try to be like the deer with antlers. The best it can do is mate with one of the ones with the gene and hope for the best for its offspring. It's not a gradual progression, from no antlers to small ones, to medium ones, to medium-large, to the full rack. It's antlers or none.

On the topic of early man or pre-man species, they're either fit for the trees or the ground, not both. They can do alright in both, but can only succeed in one. Any particular body type will be better fit for one or the other, but won't be able to compete in both. They couldn't run to the trees because they were losing on the ground, because their bodies were made for the ground. There was no half tree/half ground species. It was one gene that switched it completely, and I'm not gonna even try to guess at what that gene was.

Do you understand why this is wrong now?

I understand that written history began there. However, I do not follow the logic saying that if people were there, there were none elsewhere. I am also unwilling to call it the beginning of civilization or the human race, because I'm fairly sure it's neither.

I can go for that, and I don't think I said otherwise. However, before they were in the fertile crescent, they must have hunted and gathered for a while, and learned at least the basics of agriculture, so when they were in a fertile place, either by chance, or 'cause they knew it was fertile, they could grow a ton of stuff, not have to worry about food, and work on other things.

I don't know what you're saying. Either that the sumerians have the oldest known (known) religion, or that the oldest religion must have belonged to them 'cause they were the oldest. If it's the second one, that's a big assumption. I do think, however, that once they've got time to spend not hunting or working or sleeping or collecting roots and berries, they're gonna use they're advanced minds to ask the same questions everybody does. Why are we here? What's the meaning of life? Of course, someone said they saw something amazing, which actually turned out to be a falling star or a lunar eclipse, or any number of natural phenomena that are rare enough to be considered a god or whatnot by a primative human. They spread that around, and there's a religion. You gotta placate the gods so they don't rain fire on your big head or turn out the moon.

How do you know humanity was one? That's not only a huge assumption, it's illogical.

All religions state their position as fact. This one isn't special.

You have no evidence of this, and I would like to see whatever text you're getting that from.

Yeah. We can't see into the past, so we don't know what happened. What jump are you referring to?

It's not much of a coincidence to begin with.

No. Man gradually evolved so that they had, as a species, a certain intellect and were proficient at problem-solving. All they needed to do to accomplish everything else was band together, which the most primative of animals do.

Why is that anything but a primative interpretation of natural celestial occurances?

They would not ALL be in one place and then say Ok, now that we have alien genes, you guys go this way, you guys go that way, and we'll stay here. That was just a large center of humanity at the time, not the only village or city on the globe.

Because every piece of religious literature can be taken completely at face value. I'll bet only a small segment of sumerians actually subscribed to this.

Who knows what that means? Maybe it said "Nevermind!" Maybe it was just tad damaged after however long it was just sitting there.

Like wow, man, that totally blew my mind. There's another what if. What if the space men were highly evolved frogs that made a model of what monkeys would look like if they were highly evolved, make human costumes, and went back in time to evolve monkeys so that they'd have another species to play checkers with? Isn't that a possibility too?

 

By the way, is this that episode you were talking about?

 

So mythology is a valid argument against evolution?

One of the biggest proofs of how closely related to primates is the fact that a human and a gorilla, bonope, orangutan,or chimp can reproduce. Experiments like this were done durring the holocast and rumoroed the communist also did things of this nature. The average person is not suppose to know this.

Ever heard of Oliver the humanzee? He was either a mutant chimp or a hybrid human/chimp. He walks upright and is more intelligent than other chimps in captivity. Either way it proves our link primates, and if he is a mutant that just shows how some mutations led to a more evolved species. Officially the genetic tests 'proved' he has 100% chimp, but any other result would have resulted in social uproar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_the_chimp

 

call this adamance on my part if you want to, but i still fail/refuse to see this as an either or question.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I support testing like this. To have actual physical living proof.

Yea, I don't beleive it anymore than you beleive my theory though.
Your still using a large time period, im saying why within the first few genetic code changes, why isn't there some sort of living or fossil remains, seeing that there existed still thousands of yeras during this evolution from the common ancestor.

There were people elsewhere, they migrated from Africa and the fertile crescent. The first civilization however was in Sumeria. The first CITY was in Sumeria, this is proven and agreed upon.
As for the origin of man, its different in every source I read. Some say they migrated after they completely evolved, some say they evolved as they were migrating.
Neanderthal was in Europe and Asia, not Sapiens.

How is it illogical? You are going against your theories of climate being the major factor for evolution. You are saying climate is what gave man his free time, as well as the geology resulting from this climate. Neanderthal did not evolve, because he was in harsh cold climates, still hunting beasts.

You cannot claim geology, is what caused man to create irrigation ditches that were miles long, then say well if there were humans here I don't get how there weren't any in other places.

The first city was Babylon in modern day Iraq. No question about it.

Beginning of the human race, maybe. But your going against everything you said previously, like I just stated. Plus wouldn't a close confined area be the only way to prevent this dominant allele from eventually being outbred? If they kept migrating instead of inbreeding? In order for that to work, they would've had to stay in this temperate area. Untill the complete evolution were finished. You even said it in this next quote.

Migrated from where? Neanderthal was in the north. Homo Sapiens Sapiens came smack dab in Africa and mid-east, they developed around this temperate climate lifestyle. So they begin in a perfect place, then leave to go hunt, then come back? Ok but the bulk definitely stayed put. Thus proving my point, that Sumeria was the closest thing to humanity as a whole.
Youve got to agree with this man you just said it.

That doesn't make sense. What defintion of oldest are you using?

They were the oldest civilization, with a leap in advancement over all humanity that now at this time 5000-3500 bc. I understand there could be massive migrations at this point in time, since its been at least 10,000 years since homo sapiens developed clearly from all links between them and apes.
As in no protoman left, all old genes bred out or murdered.

They were the first civ, with a religion that could be written down. Therefore they win the race, according to anyones rules. Theres no way around it. They wrote it down first, therefore it is the oldest. What assumption could be made? Obviously their religion was oral for thousands of years, before cuneiform came around. This is why the migrants north east and south west. All have sky gods, and thunder, and rain, and water, and earth gods.
Yet they did not write it down. Its very clear the Sumerian religion is the oldest religion. Before written religion, and written law there was only tradition. Not organized religion setup for the masses.

Do comets hit earth then land, then creatures get out. Transform you and and teach you? Thats why its not natural celestial occurences.

The thing is the annunaki of the Sumerians,(not the gods of the Babylonians or Akkadians or Assyrians by the way.) These gods were not elements personified originally, this came after. Just like the Idea as man of the ruler of nature came after as well. According to the Sumerians there was no question, it was fact that everyone agreed upon. It was the only truth.

Dude are you Racist? That sounds like the Nazi Aryan theology to me.
What do you mean humanity was not one? Are you saying races are not related genetically? Of course humanity was one, with that whole thing about alleles you just presented a concentrated group of alike genes over a long period of time is the only way this comes out to work. Of course humanity was one.

Yea so people in 4000 bc knowing of genetic engineering isn't special.
When the greeks beleived Zeus threw up his siblings.......

my paste function is not working properly so Ill restart then finish the rest.