GOD ? or Evolution?

Illogic only exists in ideas.
I don't know the first self-replicating molecule, and science, unlike religion, doesn't claim to have all the answers.
If reality is subjective, then reality is nothing, and then what are you, if not nothing?
The internet is a part of reality. It is bits of information. It just doesn't have matter.

In conclusion:
1. Grow up.
2. Learn a thing or two about science.
3. Then come talk to me about it.
Your points are crap, the childish way in which you presented them doesn't make them any more convincing, and you still fail to grasp not only evolution, but apparently science in general, too.

 

And BY THE FRICKIN' WAY...

SCIENCE and LOGIC are what have come up with medicine, computers, THE INTERNET, machines, law, modern architecture, and pretty much everything that governs, surrounds, and aids you.

 

Therefore it exists Im glad you can admit it now.

Good answer. OF course it doesn't. I tried to show you my religious views and they were crankdust. So its str8. Religion sucks more than science.

Science has always been around. Egyptian alchemy involved physical chemistry and science. The've only evolved! Your favorite thing in the world! I love logic dude. I just wanted you to admit that illogical is rad too.

And stop treating me childish and speaking down to me.
Saying Im acting childish. You started the namecalling. My examples were strong deep metaphors. You only were floatin with the crap on top.

 

Would you not believe in the wind if you didn't watch a tree branch sway?

I have a hard time believing that God and the bible belong in the same sentance. I asked these very same questions, and as cliche as it sounds I didn't start believing in G-D until a heavy acid trip.

 

If I couldn't feel the wind either you mean?

Then no I would not believe in the wind.

Im just saying your only seeing the illusion of a tree swaying. There is not a tree really there. It is only a coded section of the matrix, that your brain interprets as a tree. The wind being another section that your brain sees pushing a tree branch.

The fact that your brain is whats telling you what you see. You cannot be 100% certain it is not lying to you.

Or steering you one way.

 

i don't believe god and 'the bible' belong in the same sentence. god speaks to anyone who will shut up long enough to listen. christians think this is a myrical because they never do.

speaking not in words of course, because there's nothing tangable about it.
i don't know if i had to have believed first to have noticed it,
but i have seen the branches sway.

sometimes i feel like i absolutely have to explain my perceptions
sometimes i just feel tired of trying to
and sometimes i realize there's no reason to expect everyone to understand them, no matter how much how many claim to understand a few small things, when there is such an infinity of things none of us have even yet noticed.

 

And BY THE FRICKIN' WAY...

SCIENCE and LOGIC are what have come up with medicine, computers, THE INTERNET, machines, law, modern architecture, and pretty much everything that governs, surrounds, and aids you.Yesterday 11:48 AM



Science and Logic did not come up with medicine, computers, the internet, machines, law, modern architecture and the rest. PEOPLE with FAITH in science and logic did these things with out the people and their FAITH and courage to act on what they believe, then science and logic are just empty, inanimate philosophies. In all things it requires a faith in a certain outcome for people to act and react to get results. The down side of some of your examples are, however...medicine kills 150,000 people a year (results AMA) from mmalpractice drug inter-reaction etc. Computers and the internet have made the inexcaple hand of "Big Brother" just that much closer. Law...well draw your own conclusions there. Modern engineering allowed two shuttles to fail, sunk the Titanic, allowed the twin towers to fall after they were damaged, allowed a walk wat in KC to collapse and kill dozens...etc. Machines have reduced true craftsmanship to something to be gawked at places like Silver Dollar City or in museums.

 

Yeah, ok. People did it. But without the premises and knowledge contained in science and logic, these advances would not have been possible. Faith is different. How much has religion contributed to that?

Now that's just pessimism. Of course advances come with bad uses. Fire can burn houses down, electricity...uh...electrocutes people AND can cause fires, airplanes crash sometimes, as do cars, buses, trains, submarines, etc, boats sink, the supermarket tracks all your purchases. Is it worth it? Nothing is foolproof, and I would argue that yes, the advances of modernity are more than worth the accidents that occur. Even with the big brother on my computer thing. Without law, or a basic system of punishment for crime, the people that would be murderers and thieves if it weren't for the threat of jail would be murderers and thieves. Those that do anyways would be largely on the loose, 'cause without law, there aren't crimelabs either.

Are you making a point or arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

SCIENCE! has FAILED! our world! duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuhh
SCIENCE! has FAILED! our mother eaaarrrrttthhh
-system of a down

 

how about neither....

maybe just simply LIFE

 

Yeah, ok. People did it. But without the premises and knowledge contained in science and logic, these advances would not have been possible. Faith is different. How much has religion contributed to that?
Chicken or egg???? Did the people come first or did the science and logic?? Or is the result influenced by the observer as in quantum physics??? Did science and logic require the creation of a sentinent race to further the cause of science and logic or did the evolution of a sentinent species require the creation of science and logic to further its aims??? Why were the four and a half billion years of earthly evolution the needed neither science or logic to evolve and prosper?? I fear you greatly over extend the importance of man and his frail mechinizations in relationship to the rest of the cold, uncaring universe.

 

Now that's just pessimism. Of course advances come with bad uses.

No thats not pessimism...those are just cold logical facts...logical and scientific facts. After all, science is just interested in facts and nothing more and each of the items that I listed are nothing more than statistics and facts. If it were pessimism I would have said something like, "all science and logic lead to is disasters." But i didn't because i do not believe that. Science has its place with people who are predisposed to that mentality. Religion (the other half of what we have been arguing) has its place with those folks predisposed to that mentality. My original statement was that each represents "reality" to those people who believe...what ever that belief might be...AND each belief system is valid within the framework of those folks conceptual dogma. What I do wish is that the religous folks and the science folks would get off each others backs about it. the ultimate arbiture of reality is what is between each individual' ears. The primitive villager that is somehow hexed by the local witch doctor and diludes himself into dying is just as dead regardless of the explanation...psychologically induced trauma, the stain of sin or the effects of evil spirits...doesn't matter to the dead guy because his "reality" was hex from witch doctor means death and therefore he died.

 

If god is energy and light power manifested. Then couldn't you say Evolution came from God? And that it is solely dependant on God?

This is why the god of Akhenaten the 18th Dynasty Pharoah was as close to a monotheistic god as science could ever recognize. He knew this in 1200 bc.

Energy transfered is how beings are sustained, light came from the Sun, which heated the Earth at its particular distance and orbit and made it a worthy place for Life to spawn.

Light and Energy are everything. If plants could not exist, the whole of higher Kingdoms could not survive. Plants are only dependant on Light, and water.

Water is a version of Energy particles. Or a density perhaps.

So if your God is the Aten, (the powers of enery and light). Then God is the mastermind behind evolution, and the force perpetuating it.

I beleive that the monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Corrupted this worship of a scientific god of cosmic radiance. Then turned into a patriarchal slave driver. Since the historical and archaeological evidence proves that Akhenaten was around before historical Judaism. Aside from the mythological origins.

The Sun is what allows us to live, and have civilization and everything. Yet the Sun is only powerful because of light. That light is the first cause in the energy chain.

 

"god" is a meaningless term and therefore any debate about god is illogical.
If it is illogical to speak of god then why would any rational person interested in the
tennets of the Existentialist movement within philosophy discuss it?

 

I think to believe in something is a good thing, butorganized religion is the reason all of these pointless fucking wars are going on, people killing other people in the name of some false "god". It's asinine to even inflict pain onto someone else because of some "higher power" When will people see that nothing and no one is above us in power? Until we get rid of organized religion, there will be no end to war.

 

I'm not scared of dying
and I, don't really care
if it' s peace you find in dying,
well then, let the time be near

If it's peace you find in dying,
well then dying time is near
just bundle up my coffin,
'cause it's
cold way down there,
I hear that it's
cold way down there, yeah
crazy cold, way down there

And when I die, and when I'm gone
there'll be, one child born
in this world
to carry on, to carry on

[Piano Solo]

Now troubles are many
there as
deep as a well
I can swear there ain't no Heaven
but I pray there ain't no hell
Swear there ain't no Heaven
and I'll pray there ain't no hell
but I'll never know by livin'
only my dyin' will tell, yes only my
dyin' will tell, oh yeah,
Only my dyin' will tell

And when I die, and when I'm gone
there'll be, one child born, in this world
to carry on, to carry on
yeah yeah

 

I just gave you a rational logic origin for this monotheistic slave master in the sky the capital g God.

If Light and Energy are substituted with god. Then does it become meaningless?
Or illogical? Therefore the logical mind would have to ponder it.

 

Because we have no proof that there is a God. All of the Biblical Prophets were just insane.

 

We have no proof of anything beyond what our five imperfect senses deliver as chemo-electrical signals to a fragil, gelatenous mass of squiggly cells, grease and fat that so many of you rational types like to worship as the somehow grand arbiture of all truth and "reality." I posit the response that none knows what reality might be, or god, or time, or gravity, or curved space-time, or whatever convention you wish to prescribe to is. It is infathonable to assume that something so imperfect as the human mind, or any edifice created by the human mind can be assumed to be the ulimate arbiture of any "truth." And as long as folks continue to get "locked" into ANY view as being the sole and only right view then those folks will fail to grow and evolve beyond the indefencable arbitrary spot that they have sought to irrational defend. In short...all things are possible if you are open to change and new ideas. I would like to add that NO ONE ON THIS THREAD HAS PERSONALLY PROVEN ANY POINT BY SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT OR DOCUMENTED RELIGOUS EXPERIENCE THAT THEY HAVE SOUGHT TO DEFEND ALL OF THE POSITIONS WERE ARBITRARY ASSUMPTIONS AND HERESAY>

 

Here's my laymen's translation:

We can't prove God or anything else associated with God...
Don't assume that your religion is the solution to your problems...
You'll be unable to grow as a human being if you follow a religion...

And...
NO ONE ON THIS THREAD HAS PERSONALLY PROVEN ANY POINT BY SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENT OR DOCUMENTED RELIGOUS EXPERIENCE THAT THEY HAVE SOUGHT TO DEFEND ALL OF THE POSITIONS WERE ARBITRARY ASSUMPTIONS AND HERESAY...

Didn't have to translate that last part, but it bears repeating...