God Is Dead

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by Mui, May 11, 2004.

  1. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    I just wanted to make the first agnostic/atheist post in the forums... but ye...

    God is not real, jesus is not the son of god... there is nothing higher than me, and nothing lower than me.... jesus was pretty coo when he talked about peace and love though... and when he smoked opium...

    if there were a god, i dont think he'd expect me to believe fairy tales from 2000+ years ago...

    but thas just me

  2. HappyHaHaGirl

    HappyHaHaGirl *HipForums Princess*

    Woo hoo! Fuck the Christians! Gas the Jews!

    I'm over it now.
  3. roly

    roly Senior Member

    wow guys! thats was really....uh...whats the word???? bollocks really!
  4. HappyHaHaGirl

    HappyHaHaGirl *HipForums Princess*

    Who's your daddy?????
  5. roly

    roly Senior Member

    i'm not gonna do it!
    actuallyi can't resist.....he your daddy...yeh thats right HE is. :) xxxxxxxpeace
  6. Juiceman3000

    Juiceman3000 Banned

    Out of Curiousity....

    There must be something more to agnostisism and Atheims than 'What it doesnt believe'?

    I have to think a belief system is in serious jeapordy if the only thing it can discuss is the problems or distain it has for 'other' belief systems?

    Just as a fun challenge - Someone create a topic which asks atheists to post 'Why I believe' in a positive 'pro-active' sense.
    The challenge being not to explain or even mention other religions but instead stand or fall on your own.

    There must be something?

    Good luck on that.. I will look forward to checking it out!
  7. honeyhannah

    honeyhannah herbuhslovuh

    I am non-religious and do not feel the need to have hatred and hate others that are not. I have no problem with people being wrong, and respect religious people who admit that they aren't positive, but strongly believe and only want to live their lives to the best that they can and feel that way is through their religion.

    I don't think its necessary to insult people who are religious and don't base my lack of religion, because I do have beliefs, on religious people. Nor do I call myself a non-believer because I am a believer in many things. I have however seen a lot of atheist/agnostics who are stuck on ridiculing religion as their own mission in life. Let go of the resentment. You will be a much happier person if you do.
  8. Ginge

    Ginge Ye Olde Member

    I'm agnostic, but I would NEVER go around bashing organized religions or the people who follow organized religions. O.R. just isn't my cup of tea, because I don't feel one religion is more or less "right" than another. Well, that's one reason, anyway.
  9. Juiceman3000

    Juiceman3000 Banned

    It just seems to me there must be 'something' to atheism besides 'what its not'?

    Pick any other belief system - Buddhists, Christians, Alien-seed theorists, etc etc and they could certainly hold entire lengthy discussions without ever even mentioning an outside belief system.

    ... Obviously they call this 'Church' or 'Mosque' etc and in many countries they just have the one belief system and never even consider others.

    Atheism doenst seem to be able to be content with 'standing or falling' on its own merits.

    Dont get me wrong - comparing and contrasting with another world view can be very healthy and let you learn about your own views.... often strengthen them.

    I just think it would be a fun test to have a running convo WITHOUT having to point out some aspect of another view and what you 'dont like' about it?
  10. The way I see it, believing that god does not exist is really no different from believing that god does exist. Both are articles of faith. The definition of 'atheism', to the more perceptive, is simply 'without belief regarding god'. This is actually the literal definition. Many people that label themselves as atheists dont actually believe that god not exist.

    Atheism may seem 'negative' to theists because it's nature is largely non-homocentric. Theism generally defines itself, by itself. When you take the vast cosmos into reasonable account, there is not a whole lot of 'positive' definition to give to oneself ;)
  11. God

    God Member

    NO I AM NOT! God is not dead!!!!!
  12. Alsharad

    Alsharad Member

    "The way I see it, believing that god does not exist is really no different from believing that god does exist. Both are articles of faith. The definition of 'atheism', to the more perceptive, is simply 'without belief regarding god'. This is actually the literal definition. Many people that label themselves as atheists dont actually believe that god not exist."

    However, if they are both tenets of faith, then you must have a reason for that faith. It is simply not rational to believe (or not believe) for no reason at all. So the question that Juiceman is asking is simply this: Without bringing any other religion into the argument, can you defend atheism on its own merits? Can you provide stornd deductive or inductive arguments for atheism? Can you justify your own belief (on non-belief) based on more than faith? Can you use logic and reason to defend your belief or are your beliefs simply arbitrary?
  13. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    what the hell? Show me these atheists who do believe god exists haha
  14. POPthree13

    POPthree13 Member

    I think the hardest thing with a conversation such as this is to define God. I know that their are lots of things (especially religious folks) can say to express what they beleive God to be, but in order to decide wether you beleive in soemthing or not you must first have some kind of definition for it.

    With that said I may be an atheist who beleives in God... for this simple reason: I do not beleive in God as defined by any religion that I have yet come into contact with. I do not beleive that God (if it exists) can be defined, understood, or otherwise boxed into a set of descriptions that would accurately give us a 'thing' which could be beleived in. I do beleive there is something 'Other' out there and that life on this planet is not accidental stack of molecules. What it is - I dare not imagine. So I beleive in something, many of you might call it God but without any idea whatsoever what it is, it can hardly be said that I beleive in anything...
  15. Alsharad,

    Believing that god does or does not exist are tenets of faith.

    However, it is different to have no belief regarding god at all. This is the literal definition of atheism that many atheists ascribe to.

    The reason for having no belief, is that faith is not reasonable.
  16. Alsharad

    Alsharad Member

    "Belief in no God" is not the same as "no belief in God", I agree.

    However, you are then stuck in an interesting position. Rocks do not believe, nor do cats or babies, are all these atheists?

    You seem to assert that you have no position, no opinion. You "lack belief." The problem is that once you have been exposed to an idea, you must take a position. If I posit that God exists, then you can either agree, disagree, or withhold judgement. In any case, you must justify your position with reasons (if you withhold judgement, you must explain why you withhold it). If you do not, you simply maintain a position for no reason whatsoever (which is completely arbitrary). Also note that you cannot choose to not react. You cannot return to the state of lacking conception of the idea (as a rock, or a cat, or a baby would be).

    The point is simply this.. that to simply say you "lack belief" does not excuse you from having to justify your reasons intellectually. In that case, you are in the same boat as those who assert that there is a God or those who assert there is not a God. The only other option would be to withhold judgement (most likely due to not having enough knowledge, i.e. "I don't have enough knowledge to say there is no God, nor do I have enough to say that there is, so I will withhold judgement until more evidence is known"). In any case, you must be able to give reasons for your position (in this case, the lack of belief) or your position can simply be discounted for having arbitrary beliefs based only on your own whim with no rationale or reason.
  17. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    rocks have no central nervous system. cats and babies do. the difference between an infant and an adult human, other then physiologicly, is only a matter of quantity of accumulated data. the difference between a cat and an adult human is a matter of speculation upon which little can be absolutely certain, save that a cat displays less evidence of being motivated to express themselves creatively.

    what this has to do with the existence or nonexistence of nontangable forces and beings i do not know. i only know that there is no natural requirement for them not to, and equaly none for them to bear the slightest resemblence to your, mine, or anyone else's speculations about them.
  18. God

    God Member

    I am here, I am here. You can worship me, God.
  19. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

    well i'm sure you don't have to be in your right mind to be mostly harmless.

    for my own part i greatly expect i shall continue to hug the unknowable and reflect its affection with out attempting to impose names on it.
  20. Perhaps you did not catch this from my last post:

    'The reason for having no belief, is that faith is not reasonable.'

    This pretty much sums it up.

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