"God and homosexuals"

Pigs, rabbits, camels, ferrets, snails, mice, and birds of prey are also not on the menu. And if you know any wizards, and don't kill them, God will see that as an abomination also. And you can't touch anything a woman who is menstruating has touched or you will be unclean the rest of the day. I cannot find the verse about the daughter that I quoted above, so if anyone else does, please let me know.


I would have to say it is too blatant and clear to unwittingly miss. My personal opinion is that the lack of a reply is purposeful avoidance, and willful blindness. It is too troubling to contemplate for them. If they did, they might find that gay people are just as able to be righteous, ethical, loving, and blessed by Spirit.
I wonder if someone could find the author of this quote that keeps popping into my head. It is from the NT, and I am unsure of the exact location.
It goes something like this, "Judge not others, lest ye be judged."
Can any knowledgeable Christian members help me out with the identity of the speaker, and the Chapter and verse where I could find it? It is a truly profound concept, and one area that I aspire towards improving within myself.

 

Brocktoon, my point was that you can't judge something if you've not read it yourself... And she's scared to read it in case it might change her beliefs.

 

She should spend a few days studying her Bible, the reasons why its an extremely reliable historical document, why there is good reason to believe its divinely inspired and why the classic creeds of the Christian Church are acceptable (and inevitable) conclusions.

Theres nothing wrong with reading a ficticious novel which runs fast and loose with the 'facts' it 'bases' itself on.

I have a little bit of a problem where (parts) of the story 'pretend' to be based on real locations and events when they are not.

Now.. it IS a Fictional Novel and the Author is not claiming anything a character says is actually 'Real'.
I guess it just worries me that simple-minded or confused people actually think there is real historical information in these 'made-up' conversations and statements.

i.e. A Character (named 'Teabing' I think) is portrayed as having expertise in Historical Christianity, saying (made up by Dan Brown):

“…The Bible did not arrive by fax from heaven…The Bible is the product of man, my dear. Not of God. The Bible did not fall magically from the clouds. Man created it as a historical record of tumultuous times, and it has evolved through countless translations, additions, and revisions. History has never had a definitive version of the book.”

Some people (Like Amanda?) will mistakenly believe they are reading and actual 'Historical' view, or this is based on actual 'Research'.

-In reality, the comment by the character is something no serious researcher would ever make.
-In real life - there are so many problems with that comment that its not even good enough for a workable discussion.
-If Teabing was a 'Real' person trying to get into a comparitive religion course - he would be failed because of his obvious ignorance.

See the difference?

So ya.. its fun to imagine these were real people making statements based on some interesting alternate reality.. great.. but people should know its not real life too.

Here are some NON-Fiction resources on the Holy Grail Stories and Davinci Codemania:
Unreal Societies
http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/esoteric_history/richardson1.html
Amateur Theology
http://answers.org/issues/davincicode.html
Group Discussion on factual errors
http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/art/davincicode.html

Now here is my question to you Amanda,,, Are YOU afraid to read THAT yourself (or are you too scared it will change your beliefs? [based on what Dan Brown tells you to believe?]

 

God made the bully a bully and the gay man gay. They are created for different purposes, and apparently they are both important or they would not exist.

 

I disagree. the bully is hurting others, while I see nothing bad about the gay man.
Of course, you may have a point in that the bully might be necesary in my world as a relaxant, existing so that I have a way to burn off some steam every now and then.

 

Matthew 7:1. Read Matthew 7:1-5. Basically warns against hypocracy...

 

thank you for that, I like the rest of the parable. It is a lifelong job to remove the beam, plank, log, whatever from ones own eye, in my opinion. Therefore, I will never have the right to criticize the mote in my brothers eye.

Of course, I will anyways, until the day I become perfect.

 

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (king james version)

Isaiah 45:9 "Destrustion is certain for those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot ever argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute the one who shapes it, saying, 'Stop, you are doing it wrong!' Does the pot exclaim, 'How clumsy you be!'

Isaiah 45:11 (partial) "Do you question what I do? Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?"

Well, the point is this, God made the bully for a purpose. Maybe God uses 'bad' people to mold a good one. The bully is made by God's hands just as much as the fag. If you complain about someone in your presence, you are complaining about something God has done. I see nothing wrong with bitching directly to God about the things God does. Don't condemn the bully, condemn God for making the bully (for actually, god intended for the bully to bully people, so God is actually the bully). I am not saying to dispute God's works on you, but just like a boiler has a pressure relief valve, so do you and I. We can yell at God for causing us pain.

 

Thy will be done.



I won't yell at God.

If God is to blame for serial killers, so be it. I will aim my bitching at the killer, and God can assume that I am just using the miscreant as my modem.

God may hurt me, but I cannot say that I have anything to complain about. I cant ever live long enough to pay back the value that this life has meant to me.

 

You seem to have me confused with someone else, I never once said that my belief (or indeed non-belief) in the bible was inspired by the da vinci code or what dan brown tells me... I thought that it was an interesting story, great twist at the end, and if anything helps to open a person's mind and make them think...

I've believed the bible to be a good historical reference for a long time now, it lists out the christian mythology, and why they believe what they believe... but like alll mythology, you should not take it at face value.

So, Brocktoon, I thank you for the links, I've been looking for something new to read, and im sure that these will provide some fantastic insight... (I'll get onto them once I've finished 'age of reason' and 'rights of man' by thomas paine).

 

You believe the Bible is a false document and is unreliable as a historical document.
Why dont you just say so, instead of being 'Cute' by calling it 'Mythology'

BTW.. Im not sure what you think 'Mythology' means but the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament do not qualify as 'Mythology' by ANY standards of literature.

Do you know what 'Mythology' is?

 

Your reply to Brocktoons post is a beautiful example of what I consider to be very well developed, adult, communication skills. I admire your whole message, tone, choice of wording, and diplomacy. It is tactful, supportive, and as cordial a reply as I could imagine. I know that it is beyond my skill level, and so I will read it over many times to make sure that I absorb the entire work.
It is a pleasure to read such excellent writing.
I would bet my last dollar that you are not even close to being afraid to have your views altered by new info.
It is just the opposite, I bet. You are searching for a strong knowledge base upon which to formulate your opinions, and so instead of being afraid, my guess is that you are actively pursuing such information.

Let me know if I am way off base. I have been wrong before......
cheers, BG13

 

Mythology is stuff like the idea that the whole world was under water and all the worlds animals were on a big boat for a while, or that a couple of people in a paradise garden at off the wrong tree, condemning us to sin, or any other creation myths from around the globe.
It is not an arcane term, mythology, you know, Brocktoon. You are not one very rare person that understands it. Most of us do.

 

First of all. I have to stop laughing myself off my chair from reading your oddly chosen sycophanitic spitlicklery towards the Poser Amanda.

Its like you said the opposite of what is really happening.. but did it with such froo-froo kid gloves .. lol.. CLassic BG!

Amanda is a Poser.
She is counting on the fact that you do not read the Bible, understand its historical nature, context or scholarship etc etc.

Genesis doesnt work as a 'Myth' (among other reasons) becuase it uses specific place names, dates and refers to specific individuals.
Even still.. if you are a dumbass and want to take ONLY certain sections - that will be the very closest you can get to fitting the proper (or even loose) definition of a 'Myth'.

For the most part, you have Jewish documents which are (among other things) Law Books,
Geneology records
Documents of Tribal Warfare and land exchange etc.

The New Testament has four Gospels.
These are (rather dry) Accounts.
Again, these document very specific places, names, times, dates and individuals.
The Epistles are just that - Letters.

Pauls Letter to the Corinthians is simply that - Some Correspondance.

Most all of these CLEARLY state what they are and read accordingly.

Now,,, you may very well say they are 'untrue' or 'flawed' and you can certainly insist they are NOT divinely inspired.
Fine.

But dont try and use the word 'Mythology' and pretend this would be taken seriously by anyone who knows better.

 

I am not pretending. I don't KNOW better. the only contemporary to even mention a single key member of Jesus circle that has ever been found is Josephus, a known liar, whose descendents benefitted greatly from his 'writing'. In all the Jewish books that I have read, no records of any disciples exist, nor of Jesus, nor any other people except the historically significant figures like Pilate and Herod.

That could mean that the Gospels, and the other references to Jesus' peers were ALL written by Josephus. Every think of that?
Then it becomes less than myth, it becomes a good novel.
I believe that He lived, but I don't KNOW that.
It is far from a fact.
When it is an obvious conclusion that much of the OT is cribbed from other sources, and that even the NT has some very coincidental parallels to earlier religious epics, the literal credulity of the events becomes very tenuous indeed.
Jesus may have been a central character in a piece of propaganda written by a cunning Roman author. This piece of literature was a great resource for the masses to refer to when in need of a reason to kill Jews.

Your posts are strong on bluster, and short on the very things you are always accusing others that they lack. Source material. You have virtually none.

 

Thank you for your kind words, it means a lot to me... And I think you're spot on with your view of me...

 

jumping in agin...

hit the nail right on the head...
Myths:
1. Tell the stories of gods, goddesses, and heores of a given culture
2. Explain the origin of the world and human beings
3. Help to define himan relationship with diety or deities. The Juedeo-christian tradition establishes God as a supreme power and authoritarian father figure, wheras the norse tradition, the power of the Gods was more restricetd
4. REnforece cultural values, drawing attention to what the culture sees as primary good and evil. Biblical stories for example arn us against vanity or disobedience to parents

ya, this is from a book called "Liturature for Children" by Russell


oh, ya and Brockton, the NT has countless Gospels, some which i have read bits of, that were not included in the text...

 

Mythology

a: A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes.
b: A body of myths associated with an event, individual, or institution: “A new mythology, essential to the... American funeral rite, has grown up” (Jessica Mitford).

If the bible does not fit into this category, then I don't know what does. The bible is NOT written by god, it's written by man. Some might say that it's contents were inspired by god, but that is down to a persons own personal opinion.

The problem with you is that you are not prepared to let go of your belief that the bible is the word of god... Any biblical scollar will tell you that the first 5 books of the old testament, suposadly written by Moses - were in fact NOT written by moses... but rather FOUR diffrent sources, all drawn togther in a mish mash of words.. you want proof... alas I'm not a biblical scollar, so I can't give you tons of it, but I can give you a very good example:

OK, so god has made humankind, both a guy and a girl... great, well done god.... but wait, there's more...

Hang on... did he just made woman - AGAIN?? But he's already made them both... he said so himself before.. Why is the bible contradicting itself? Because it's not written by god.. it's not even written by a single man... but FOUR diffrent people.

Please, I urge you, read 'age of reason' (it's very good), then come back to me with the same opinion... I DARE YOU!!

 

I once heard an interesting perspective on the duplicate creation that you point out, Amanda. The first one you post is the creation of an asexual earthling. He created more than one, but they were both male and female.

Then later, he created the separate genders.
That would explain the two separate entries.
I also have heard a lot of evidence that a woman wrote most of the pentateuch.
My personal hunch is that the apostle John was actually a woman named Joanna. The KJAV has a couple of cryptic hints that this could be possible.
One thing even toon cannot refute is that there was something special about John.

 

When did I say that I never read it? I do not rely on the opinions of others to sway me. You seem to have formulated an opinion in your own mind that I know nothing about the book. That is why I stated that the book is in my home, and I have also watched a special on it. All the television show did was make me laugh at how absurd it was.

If you knew God, you would see that the rest was false. I'm sorry, but the Bible was influenced by the Lord. It is so very sad to see people in such a defense of the world's lies. If I read Age of Reason, I would see the same kind of nonsense written in the Da Vinci Code. I would see nothing but man trying to interpret what he does not know. Men everywhere dispute the truths of the Bible. They fear what they do not know and what they do not understand. The unknown world holds fear for everyone.

I have read Aleister Crowley, I have read books on Wicca. I have Jewish friends with whom I speak with about their faith. I have listened to the views expressed. A close minded person would not do the same.

I am very sorry that you are so eager to judge those you do not know. Every day I awake, I have an opportunity to improve myself. I have a chance to learn and grow. I have been on a wonderful journey and the Lord has been with me every step of the way. I also find in mildly amusing when the statement, "Read this book", is used in conjunction with the words, "Self improvement." Are these books not merely a formulated opinion in one man's mind? Reading other's ideas gives you some insight into what goes on inside their heads. However, self improvement comes from one's own self.


Faith is never a dangerous thing. Clinging to man's philosophy is. I am sorry that man's false hopes and faith in a world that he contributes to destructing, will only lead to his demise. That is all that will be found in both of those books.

Good point, Brocktoon.