Gay tendencies

I'm afraid you are right about most "church people". I decided some time back that I couldn't deal with those folks too much - so I teach young children about Jesus - I hoping by starting early some of the true message of Jesus will stick.

 

I would be willing to bet, Erzebet, that that (probably big-mouthed, judging) Bishop and his flock are a lot more worried about your sexual preference than the Lord is. No, I certainly don't have a special channel to His mind; but, I am very familiar with the Bible...and it's like Ddoright said, Jesus did not discuss or address sexual preference.
We should not participate in debauchery/orgies - but that has Nothing to do with one's sexual preference. And I most certainly do think that a person is "born" with their desires - in that I don't think people "choose" to be gay.
My heart goes out to you, and I pray that you will find peace - for it comes through your writing quite clearly that you love God.

 

And reading that you are working with young children, teaching them, uplifts my heart and lets me know there are children being taught the (right) true message in church.

 

i dont see how people are gay in the first place because one of the guys acts as a girl and the other acts as the guy so how can u be gay when one person acts as a girl

 

erzebet, just one more thought (maybe 2...
The way you were treated at that church, by #1 - the Bishop and #2 - people calling themselves Christians were WRONG.
How we judge others is how we are judged. Matthew 7:1-5 address this very thing.
I believe in my heart of hearts (and may certainly be wrong) that THEY (if they do not repent) will be held accountable for their actions toward you if they call themselves a believer in the Almighty. Much moreso than you May be expected to account for whom you love.
I believe that those of us that call the Lord God Jehovah master best Do what and Say what is right, and I don't even go to church! Especially someone who is a leader - being a "stumbling block" is no small offense.
So take heart, and know that it doesn't matter what someone, anyone else thinks, as long as you yourself know you are alright with Him.

 

I don't know why I didn't see this before. I guess it woiuld just be one of those sexual hang-ups that the Church will never get over. I mean, they could have said "condoms help stop AIDS", but instead they only allow heterosexual men who are married who have AIDS to use them.

I agree about your whole post though. It will never happen. The official stance would be to just not do it

 

To do or not to do? That is the question. I have a sojourn for closing the door behind me now. Just to be assured for the power of liars in the world I will go buy fresh new condoms.

 

Well, I think the Vatican and to a certain extent other symbolic offices that have basis in tradition and very little social pressure exerted on them are always going to evolve very grudgingly. Democracies evolve (and can thus grow away from the principles on which they were founded) because their power figures have to be sensitive to changing social attitudes or risk being kicked out.

 

I don't think you understand what it means to be gay. Homosexuals come in all different kinds of packages. You can have two masculine men, two femmes, or like you said, one kind of masculine and one kind of feminine. With girls too - you can have two butchy types, a butch and a femme, or two femmes. Or they can take turns.
The roles can be reversed in straight relationships too.
People can be attracted to different things. The way we view sexuality is changing.

 

Yall are wonderful , I dont feel so bad anymore.....I just wish there was people like yall in the church when I was going there.

 

Yes, God did make us but at the same time he gave us free will to choose what to do with the lives he has given us. I personally do not believe that God made anyone gay but that it is a choice that some make with their free will.

My question is why do you believe this? Believing so means that you have to believe God is not just and that his laws and principles are unfair.

Another good reason that you shouldn’t listen to all those church people.

There really is no such thing as hetero or homo people, we are all just people and we all have the free will to choose whether to follow God’s laws and principles or not. God’s laws and principles are not there to imprison us but to set us free. It’s those very laws and principles that help us to get the most out of life.

Do you really think that God, our loving heavenly Father, is actually withholding good things from us? Do you really think that this is the kind of person God is?

 

i always find it strange when heterosexual folks proclaim that being homosexual is a choice, an employment of "free will". i always wonder at what point in their lives did these heterosexual folks make the choice to be heterosexual. did they at some certain age look at the same and opposite gender and consciously decide that they would prefer sex with the opposite gender? i, as a heterosexual, do not recall ever having made a choice of which gender i'm attracted to. i also wonder why some heterosexual folks imagine that gay folks would chose to be gay considering how many anti-gay bigots there are in the world and therefore how much easier it would be to be hetero if a choice could actually be made to be one or the other. do these insensitive hetero folks not think that if a desparate and emotionally isolated gay teenager on the verge of suicide could be other than gay, miserable and outcast he/she wouldn't chose to be hetero and thus socially acceptable? what a hell it must be for gay teens trying to survive with some self esteem intact in Christian dominated small towns.

another wonder ... while nowhere in the Bible does it have Jesus saying anything about homosexuality but it does have him being quite clear on the sin of divorce and remarriage, yet the pews of churches are packed with divorced and remarried adulterers. how is it that being gay is such a horrid sin that gay folks are shunned from many Christian churches but divorced and remarried adulterers are welcomed in without need for the least repentence?

if i recall the NT correctly Jesus had a special disdain for hypocrites.

 

I respect Old Brother Walter but I think I disagree with him on what appears to be his belief that people chose who they are attracted to personally and sexually. I am straight - I have a definite inclination to settle down with a female and make family. I like the looks, feel and sensitivity of women.

I believe just as strongly that others naturally prefer people of the same sex. What person has not seen a 12 year old boy and knew, without asking, that he would be gay. The strongest argument I believe is that why would someone chose to be gay if the choice were theirs? Would they chose being ridiculed, shunned, lose the respect of their parents - would they chose to be the object of senseless violence, or job discrimination?

These things are imposed by society to enforce compliance and uniformity of their norm. It is not pain inflicted on them by God - but by society. Would someone with an honest choice chose to open their self up to all the humiliation and pain that many homosexuals do? I think not. My opinion is they were born with the future desire for people of the same sex. They need them for comfort and companionship just as surely as I need my wife. People do not, at age 10 say to themselves - "I think I want to screw with males, or females any more than straight people do. It is who they are.

Oh yes, they do have a choice - but for most a monastic, celebate lifestyle is not practical. If I should deny my desire for females I could do the same - but I think not.

It is not a real choice, just an illusion of a choice. Plus a terrible guilt trip to think they alienated their parents and loved ones and society because they chose to do so.

With respect - Dudley

 

ditto, Dudley! tho your rendition of the argument is much better expressed.

 

Amen dudley! Someone else mentioned this earlier, but Christ never said anything about homosexuality. If this is such an important, vital law, why is it not mentioned in the NT? Christ himself ranked God's law by importance, and he clearly states the 2 MOST important are to love god, and love your neighbor as yourself. Nothing in there about gays. And lets not forget that Christ dined with prostitutes, even though prostitution is much more of a "choice" than being gay.

I think everyone can agree that gays are a marginalized group in this world, and as Christians, we shouldn't even have to ask what our job is in relating to a marginalized group--Christ's entire life was about that.

 

why the F, would god intentionally create homo people to see if they would apply to the no-homo code..


besides, Ive seen some sexy girls with NUTS..

 

orison, that is just such a ridiculous, nonsensical thing to say in the midst of all this that I find I like it.
I have chuckled and now I would grin if my dagblasted smilies would work. But I can .

 

Why would it be "against" God's laws and principles to be homosexual? I am quite serious. Sodom and Gommorah (sp?) were destroyed because there were no JUST men - Not because there were homosexuals there. I'd be willing to bet there have been homosexuals in every group of every culture everywhere for about forever.
I believe MEN have judged homosexuality to be as despised and "unlawful" as it seems to be, even in this "enlightened" time - not God.
But then all that ^ is pretty much just my personal opinion - aside from the reference to Sodom and Gommorah (which I'm probably not spelling correctly). And that is absolutely accurate.

 

In Biblical times, with scriptures like Leviticus, homosexuality was considered bad because it was associated with men (superiors) making themselves or other men into inferiors (females). (Notice it says nothing about females lying with females). Sodom and Gomorah wasn't about "homosexuality" or even sex--it was about threatened gang rape of people who were strangers and new to town--as a bullying move to put them down. Many other references to homosexuality seem to be related to exploitative relationships like pederasty and temple prostitution. Later, as Christians turned to Greek thought to flesh out their theology, the taboo against homosexuality became interpreted by the prevailing Greco-Roman framework of "natural law", and the notion that it is "unnatural" to have sex that can't lead to reproduction. I think Olderwater Brother, like so many Christians, is arriving at his conclusions about homosexuality not on the basis of any scientific findings but on his literal reading of scripture and his inferences about what God wouldn't do because He is thus and so.

 

The Bible says that God created 'man' as a race, not every single individual person that belongs to that race. Blaming God for everything that goes wrong is a cop-out, for sure.

On the other hand, what isn't so well defined is what a woman is, what a man is, what a homosexual is, or what a heterosexual is. There are humans with penises that are more like what we think a woman should be, and humans with vaginas that are more like what we think men should be. The rigidity we ascribe to human identities and sexuality is a predominantly Western thing... other cultures don't necessarily think of things the same way.

Part of the reason that 'homosexuals' even exist is because we are socially conditioned to believe that hetero or homo is something we are instead of something we do. But I suppose that's been said already...