Gay Cure MERGED

I think its hilarious that you are blatantly denying that you read my opinion on this issue when I have been POSTING REPEATEDLY over and over on this topic and sharing more of my opinions than most will.
So much of my opinion is posted that Im repeatedly told to STOP SHARING IT.

This is in previous posts all along Henry and even AFTER I explained where you can find them you STILL keep pretending like "well.. where is it?"
LOL!

Click on my screename - select "show more posts from Erasmus" - read for hours and hours all the opinions I have shared.
Happy now?

Henry: "Hmph.. so your not gonna tell me then?"

LMAO!

Wheres YOUR Opinion Henry?
Eh?

 

this is getting boring.......

 

EXHIBIT A:

Here's an incident where you were actually asked for your opinion directly, and in which you refused to give it in case it was a trap.

 

I have gay friends, Rassie, and one even told me I have a cute bum. I was flattered, but of course, still hetero.
I love gay people, and accept them as they are. Nobody is going to convince me to be gay, just as no one is going to convince them to be straight. It is egocentric to assume that I know better than they do, as to what they are. I have to give some credit to an earlier post, which proposed that the obsession with homosexuality that you clearly have, may indicate a latent tendency towards it. Shakespeare once wrote, 'Methinks he doth protest too much.'
If you are not harbouring some internal homosexual conflicts, and are content with your sexuality, then why not allow others the same respect.

 

No, I like the thought of fucking guys way too much.

 

Thats terrible how I was discussing it and giving all my opinions on it while you refuse to state what YOU mean.

How about this:
YES.

Now what is your point about this?
Lets see your opinion?

Then I get to ask you a 'Yes or No' question reply dont I?

 

So I missed the point entirely with my last post. God I'm an overly defensive idiot sometimes. Apologies.

I still think the entire hypothesis is disturbing and only intended as a method of stirring results.

 

But the hypothesis is based on popular beliefs held by many (the majority Id say) of homosexual spokepeople and orgs:
Homosexuality is a physical condition.
Genetic.
Physiological.
It is something in the body that makes a person want to have sexual relations with others (of the same sex, obviously) who are also born with this condition.

This is NOT an evangelical Christian position, its not a 'Fox news' position and its not a 'Right Wing' position.
In fact, people in those groups were quick to reject the idea of a 'Gay Gene' and many (including myself) were highly critisised for 'denying' it.
Some of us have even been found guilty of murdering Matthew Shepard for NOT accepting homosexuality as a inherint biological condition!

So, you need to know that gene therapy and these sort of pre-natal treatments are one of the most progressive and upcoming fields in medicine.
Its here now and its being seen as what might be the future of medicine.
Maybe its over-hyped but the idea that this 'gay gene' will be found and understood in the near future is a very real possibility.

Look, we are not talking about 'nanotechnology' theories folks - this is something already on its way and ready to happen any minute now.

Even Im willing to take it seriously enough to consider the possibility that maybe there is a 'gay gene'.
If that is the case then I think someone who already does beleive they are 'born gay' needs to start taking this all the more seriously!

What I am seeing here is a lot of people who insist that homosexuality is not a behavior but a biological force that must be bowed down to.
(is there something wrong with choosing to be gay is another good question?)
but
They are pretty much counting on the fact it wont be discovered so even if its not true or is - they can just keep glossing over this question.

 

But there is a difference between saying that gays are born gay, and that it's a gene that can be detected. I think the main point is that we don't choose to be gay. Is there anything with saying gays choose to be gay? It is when it is implied that it is a wrong choice, that it can be undone etc. Aside from the fact that it's not true. Do you have any idea how many gays (try to) commit suicide because they are gay and the people around them don't accept it? If it were a choice, the matter would be resolved more easily.

I believe (and many others with me) that homo/bisexuality is something you are born with and maybe influenced by early childhood. It could be a gene, it could be a whole array of genetic interactions, it could be because of certain influences on us during our time in the womb (nutrients, hormones etc).

So the question is: how likely is it that they will find one or several genes explicitly responsible for homosexuality. Even if it is genetic, it might be too complicated to detect, or it could just show a tendency to homosexuality which could come out or not (like people with the BRCA gene for breast and ovarian cancer: they have a much higher chance of getting that cancer, but that's still nowhere near a 100% chance of getting it.)

 

So what you are saying is that you believe its a physical condition which compels a man (born with it) to have sexual attraction to other men.
Ok.
So what you say next is that - since it will probably never be found and/or succesfully understood then this is not worth preparing for or having an answer for.

Well great.

I still insist that if this is found to be a cause of hormones or nutrients in the womb or these sorts of factor then its totally ethical for a parent to have this 'corrected' so the baby is born a heterosexual.
Remember - there is no situation where this 'changes who they are' because the baby is born, grows and doesnt know anything other than being heterosexual anyways.
That IS what his/her sexuality is now.
For them to be gay would not be 'who they are' because they only ever knew they were straight anyways.

Here is a twist on the whole subject:

What if you find the gay gene / hormones / nutrients.
You identify this is a homosexual baby boy.
Ok?
If it becomes possible (and its getting closer) to then change the sex of the baby?
Why not be reasonable here?
The gay male baby has the gay gene left as is - but the sex is then changed to a female.
Why not?
Now the gay baby grows up with all its attraction to men intact but has a vagina which is designed especially for a penis!
PLUS.. dont forget a much larger pool of men to choose from (since most men are straight).

Perfect solution right?

 

Erasmus70, You're nasty.

 

Maybe it would be helpful to talk about what we can probably agree about.

First, there seem to have been gay people pretty much everywhere and at every time.

Next, the acceptance of gay people has varied from time to time and place to place. However, for the most part, gay people have often been treated pretty badly. No matter how badly gay people are treated (and I'm including killing, violence, other discrimination, etc.), there always seem to be people who remain gay and more gay people are born.

For all of the unpleasantness that so many gay people are subjected to, we could reasonably expect that there would be some gay people who want to stop being gay. It's likely that a number of suicides can be traced back to people's unhappiness about being gay. There are an uncountable number of marriages that involve at least one person who either sees marriage as a way of stopping being gay or at least hiding it. We could probably agree that marrying someone of the opposite sex doesn't make a person stop being gay, or at least that it doesn't always or even usually work that way.

We might also agree that different gay people are gay in different ways. Some gay people are more monogamous than others, just like some heterosexuals. Some gay people are attracted to one specific type of person rather than others, again just like some heterosexuals. In short, there is nothing that all gay people have in common except that they are either primarily or exclusively attracted (romantically or sexually or both) to their own sex.

As a result, it's possible that different people are gay for different reasons. Some of it may come from a gay gene, while some of it may come as the result of upbringing or early experiences. Any surgery or procedure or medicine that might make some people stop being gay might not necessarily work for every gay person. There's still a lot we don't know about human sexuality, gay or otherwise.

I haven't even mentioned bisexuality. Why are some people bisexual?

Any so-called "cure" would be highly experimental. Would a person who has always been gay become a healthy or happy heterosexual?

Given what we know now and what we may not learn for quite some time, it seems like the way to help as many people live the happiest lives possible is to adopt a very live-and-let-live attitude toward sexuality. Don't treat homosexuality as a terrible sickness, but recognize that gay people can lead happy and healthy lives. It's not being gay that makes gay people miserable, but the unpleasant attitudes of other people.

 

You have complained that people have attributed words/ideas to you that you did not express. So do me the favour of not putting words in my mouth.
I never said that it is not worth preparing or having an answer for.
I was merely pointing out that the matter is complex, and shouldn't be made to look more simple than it is.

Yes, I would consider it wrong, just like I would find it wrong to change a baby's hair color, eye color etc. Illnesses are another matter, but I do not consider homosexuality a disease that should be "cured". After all, homosexuality doesn't cause suffering to the person that has it, the attitude of others towards it does.

As for your "perfect solution" of changing gay male babies into females... Ever heard of transsexuals? This sounds like the perfect way to create them... Ever consider that that female baby might end up growing up feeling trapped in a wrong gender?
This is "playing God", tampering with genes and such, and we aren't anywhere near fully understanding how genes work, and how altering some genes might have unexpected results.

 

I didn't say why I was asking the question because a) I thought it was pretty obvious anyway, and b) I was concern that it would influence your answer. Seems the latter was a legitimate concern.

I was asking whether you see a difference between advising someone to experiment with homosexuality and advising them to quit heterosexuality because you were asserting that GayOrgs did the latter to the same degree as Exodus encourages gays to give up their homosexual behaviour. I argued that this is not the case, and when asked you didn't produce any real evidence to refute it.

So I wanted to make sure we were on the same wavelength, and that you actually believed there was a difference. I know plenty of people who believe that as soon as you try something gay, you can't ever call yourself straight again, even if you really dislike it; I wanted to establish whether that was your view.

Basically the whole point of asking was to establish that you understood the difference between doing something once and never doing anything else ever again, because it seemed this presented a non sequitur within your argument.

I'm past believing there's any way you're going to be persuaded that you aren't right about everything, so yeah, ask of me any yes/no question that it would possible for me to answer. I have no fear of expressing my opinion in a consequence-free debate thread, and I think it's a shame if anyone here does feel that they cannot voice an opinion simply because they feel it might be unpopular.

 

Quoted for emphasis.

He's not going to give any straight answer. He doesn't want to reveal himself as a BNP member, because then no one would take him seriously and he wouldn't be able to sucker people into his ex-gay philosophy.

 

Lol.

 

Ive already given straight answers but Im also to be entitled to consider issues, reconsider an issue, have unanswered questions or be in search of the truth.
You are too.
Unfortunately you have no intention of persuing those rights.
Too bad.

If I was a BNP Member or not - I still doubt I could 'sucker anyone' into anything. Instead I seem to be one of the only people here trying to get down to what IS true.
I dont care if BNP members happen to think Homosexuality is a behavior and not a Gene.
If its a Gene its a gene.
If its a behavior then it is.
Whatever the truth is then thats what I will stand on.

And thats a problem for a lot of people on all sides of this issue.
You can clearly see where so many in these forums start with a determination to 'argue' for anything (no matter what it is) anything 'they think' sounds like it my be 'helping gays be good'
or
AutoReacting against anything (no matter what) they think 'sounds like' its 'not helping be progay'.

Sure, some of those descriptions dont 'make sense' and thats my point.
Its not about 'whats true' but just push, shove, fight, personal attack, flood the boards... heck.. REpoRt to Mods and have it censored .. whatever pushs your predetermined 'camp' is what you go for.

Its too bad really.

 

has anyone in the thread ever spoken IN PERSON to someone who'se wanted to 'recover' from being gay? or even better someone who's been to exodus?

 

I didn't get a yes/no question

 

And I didn't get a reaction to my post... I'm guessing I wasn't interesting enough, no insults and stuff

By the way, homosexuality isn't EITHER a gene EITHER a behavior. Lots of opnions/ideas in between/aside from that...