Gay babies? Live or die?

And your point?

I never considered my wife's death as an "arguing point" just a statement of fact.

She died 10 years ago. It is part of my history, including the whole process that added to my experience. I seldom cry about it anymore like I did for years. Or could this revelation be considered an "arguing point."

Sorry, I am not versed on "arguing points." I am not a professional debater, just a guy who voices his opinions honestly to others and hopes it makes sense.

 

Why would I want to know if my baby will be gay?

 

Nope. Despite disagreeing with you, you haven't displayed any prejudice towards intersex people. Though I will ask, knowing about me what you do, would you treat me differently from any other female?

No, you're wrong. I already stated in my previous post that I would consider being blind and deaf to be worse than the way I am now. Sure, I probably wouldn't be discriminated against as much, but I dont think I could take being blind and deaf. So I am aware, and try never to lose sight of the fact that there are people out there who are worse off than me. I wasn't born a lab animal, or animal used for fur production. Nor was I born a starving child in Africa. I could have it worse. But that doesn't change the fact that if I had a choice, Id rather have not been born than have the life that I have. It's amazing that making that one statement created such a furore. lol

As for your own issues, I don't know what they are, so I can't really comment on that.

I wouldnt wish my life on almost anyone, so I dunno that I'd trade for someone else's issues. However yes, if I could have most other issues without me giving them mine, I would definitely do that. Certainly being black, mexican, etc would be infinitely prefferable. (though I hesitate to even calling being born a certain race an ''issue''. But you mentioned it, so Im just comparing.) Even being gay would be. At least then Id never have to worry about people treating me as a gender Im not, which I do a lot every day.

I dont think I can ever be truly happy if I can't live a normal life as a woman. And that is one thing where unfortunately, the attitudes of general society play a huge part in that. So as much as I'd like to, it's not really something I can ignore. The only thing I can do, is to not interact with people at all. And it would be fair to say that I have always done that as soon as it was possible for me to do so. I am not happy, and I think expecting me to be truly happy is just expecting too much. I have been able to get to a point where life is just about bearable, but I needed to cut society completely out of my life to achieve that. One time I did try and mingle with society again, and it made me terribly unhappy again.

As for your last point, I couldn't agree with you more. While I am uncomfortable talking even online about an aspect of my life which has brought me deep unhappiness, I think it is something society in general must be made aware of. The only hope of ever changing society's attitude towards gender binary, is through education. Yet the intersex condition has been largely hidden away from society for many years. It is surprising, and disturbing, that even a large proportion of intersex people themselves did not realise the truth about how they were born, until they were deep into adulthood. (like me) And Im sure some people have even died without ever having access to that knowledge.

Things are slowly changing in regards to how the medical profession deals with intersex babies, so hopefully one day, society will be made more aware of this situation. Its a lot more common than Im sure most people realise. Though certain intersex conditions are rarer than others. My own condition only effects one in thirty six thousand people. But some intersex conditions can effect as many as 1 in 500 people. Making it much more common than people who are trans. Yet almost everyone knows about transsexuals, but far fewer know anything about intersex conditions. The very narrow gender binary that most adhere to is an illusion, but it will be a very long time before most in society know and accept that the gender binary is far wider than they seem to think.

I'd like to apologise to QP for going so far off-topic. Although this a great discussion, it's gone too far away from the original question. lol

 

let them live let them live let them live let them live let them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them livelet them live let them live let them live let them live

 

Considering that you and I have had open and honest conversations, you would likely get treated better then most females (or males for that matter)...

They are exactly the same issue from the perspective of the way society views them. They are not 'normal'... and all have pretty much went through stages where 'normal' people considered them as property or worse yet, less then property. Many were killed, many more are still being killed, depending on where you go in the world.

It may not be something you can ignore, but many many people do make the choice to ignore how society views them. As long as you continue to put value on the way normal society views you, and chase after that approval and acceptance from them, you will be unhappy.

Funny thing is, you can have even the most reasonable (usually) people say things like, "if you aren't intersex, you shouldn't talk about it because you have no clue".

Sorta goes against the whole, let's get it out in the open no?

We each go through the same things to varying degrees, and there is not a 'magical connection' between people who have the same conditions, so to presume that you can't talk about it unless you have it or worse yet, to tell other they can't?

As for the OP, yeah, we did hijack the thread, but as far as I'm concerned this was a hell of a lot better convo then what will come when this part ends...

You can make your own thread to talk about these issues if you wished, or perhaps even your own forum here.

 

Honestly? Die.

It's not a personal thing, considering it's unborn; plus, what use does one have to humanity when it doesn't reproduce?

 

btw, keep in mind I have NOTHING against homosexuals. Seriously. I was just giving my blunt opinion!

 

Your blunt and totally nonsensical opinon...

Leonardo da Vinci - zero kids... may have been gay... too bad he wasnt killed as a baby, after all he didn't contribute anything at all to the world...

 

Mo Mowlam, Cabinet minister and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (UK)
Mari Matsunaga, Japanese innovator of i-mode, voted in top 25 tech women of the web
Lauren Hutton, model/actress
Marlo Thomas, actress
Stephanie Zimbalist, actress
Patrick Swayze, actor
Betty White, actress
Kevin Spacey, actor
Margaret Mitchell, author
Julia Roberts, actress
Quentin Tarantino, writer/director
Randy Travis, singer
Dwight Yokam, singer
Lara Flynn Boyle, actress


None of them had any kids either... I suppose they contributed nothing to humanity either??

 

Or these ones...

Daryl Hannah, actress
Diane Sawyer, news reporter
Mickey Rourke, actor
Mary Cassatt, Impressionist painter
Annie Oakley
Arthur C. Clark (step-father, but none of his own)
Baroness Karen Blixen, author (Out of Africa)
Oprah Winfrey, talk show host
Amelia Earhart, adventurer
Ann Bancroft (the polar explorer, not the actress)
Simone de Beauvoir, writer
Gloria Steinem, feminist activist/writer
Helen Keller, author
Annie Sullivan, H. Keller's teacher
Jessye Norman, opera singer
Mother Teresa, nun
George Washington (step-father but none of his own)
Frida Kahlo, Mexican painter
Immanuel Kant, philosopher
Jesus Christ
Lawrence of Arabia
William Lyon MacKenzie King, Canadian Prime Minister
Joan of Arc
Florence Nightingale
Susan B. Anthony, nineteenth-century suffragist
Lorena Hickok, AP political reporter
Harriet Tubman, underground Railroad
Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell, first female physician in the US
Carrie Chapman Catt, US suffrage leader
M. Carey Thomas, President of Bryn Mawr College
Ella Fitzgerald, jazz vocalist
Emily Dickinson, poet
Jeanette Rankin, first female US Representative
Margaret Bourke-White, photographer
Julia Child, French cook
Ayn Rand, philosopher/author
Rear Adm. Grace Murray Hopper, computer pioneer
Billy Jean King, tennis player
Marian Anderson, opera singer
Scott Adams, creator, Dilbert
Brett Butler, comedienne
Stockard Channing, actress
George Clooney, actor
Mary Crosby, actress
Linda Evans, actress
Reginald VelJohnson, actor
Nanci Griffith, singer
Katherine Hepburn, actress
Bonnie Raitt, singer
Rita Rudner, comedienne
Dr. Seuss, author
Christopher Walken, actor
Bill Watterson, creator, Calvin and Hobbes
Yanni, composer/musician
Larry Kahn, listed in Guinness Book of World Records
Jay Leno, host, Tonight Show
David Letterman, host, Late Show
Christine McVie, singer/songwriter
Bill Maher, host, Politically Incorrect
George Michael, singer
Helen Mirren, actress
Stevie Nicks, singer
Georgia O'Keefe, artist
Dorothy Parker, writer
Sara Teasdale, poet

 

calm down, I mean to further the existence of a specific race or humanity in general. I'm not speaking knowledge.

 

Yes, I am well aware you aren't speaking with knowledge...

 

by the way, singers, artist and poets don't contribute shit in my opinion. lol

 

How old are you Mr Dot? How many kids have you got?

 

vaginal blood fart?

 

I'm 17, would love to have kids in the future, and if one of them turns out to be gay then I'd be perfectly fine with that.

 

well, I imagine you know more about contributing shit to the world then I do...

So I will agree... they didn't contribute shit, they contributed works of the mind...

 

I like music, but it doesn't further the existence of humanity, sooo, is it important in the grand scheme of things? No, but thats my personal opinion. I state my opinion and get flamed.

....really?

 

when your opinion is that childless people contribute nothing to humanity, damn right...

 

they contribute nothing to our very existence, I thought that was kind of obvious...lol seeing as how they most likely wont reproduce?