gaaaaah...politicians

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by FrozenMoonbeam, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. FrozenMoonbeam

    FrozenMoonbeam nerd

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    So the prime minister of New Zealand is a woman - Helen Clark
    However, we have elections in about three weeks, so all the parties are trying to get in on the act, and the leader of the winning party will become the new prime minister.

    To help the public decide who to vote for, the tv stations run leaders' debates where they put the leaders head to head on the important issues.
    Anyway, the other night a leaders' debate was aired.
    the main debaters were Helen Clark, prime minister and leader of the Labour party (which is a center-left party) vs Don Brash, leader of the opposition, National (a center-right party)

    Now in this debate Helen Clark pretty much kicked Don Brash's ass. He couldn't answer the arguments and points she bought up, he just sort of stutterd and ummed.

    however don brash finally found his tongue the next day...(and this is what pisses me off)...
    basically, he said that if his opponent had been a man he would have been able to debate the topics, but that he does not want to raise his voice to a woman, which is why he kept quiet.

    now, putting aside the fact that a good debater does not need to start shouting - you should be able to win a debate through intelligence - why should he be so damn discriminatory?

    I think that there needs to be consistency in the way he (and other males)
    treat their collegues, whether those collegues are male or female they deserve to be equal.
     
  2. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    We were talking about this at my flat last night.

    I dont think it was meant to be discriminatory, at least against women. Don Brash is just overly polite...and an idiot. Sour grapes come to mind.

    He said that he didnt think it was "entirely appropriate for a man to aggressively attack a woman." He is right. But, he is a moron for saying that, especially after the debate.

    This is an example of society putting women up on a pedestal. It is a remnant of a patriarchal society for sure, but double standards exist in society. That isnt always a bad thing, imo. I think it is far worse for a guy to hit a female than another guy. Obviously both are bad..but a guy who hits a girl is a real piece of shit.

    You have to admit, Helen Clark was going nuts 2 nights ago. She attacked the crowd when they booed her! Everytime Don Brash talked he was interrupted by her. His only choice would have been to scream.
     
  3. feministhippy

    feministhippy Member

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    I'm not a New Zealander and I haven't seen the debate, but that kind of sounds like an excuse to me. I don't know any men who wouldn't shout back at a woman out of politeness, unless he is someone who doesn't shout at anyone out of politeness.

    Is there a clip of this debate online? Maybe if I see it, I can get a better idea of what happened.
     
  4. jim_w

    jim_w Member

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    I'm sure it was just an excuse. Anyone who needs to 'argue aggressively' has already lost the debate, whether it's against a man or a woman.
     
  5. FrozenMoonbeam

    FrozenMoonbeam nerd

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    yeah, helen was a bit intense - she was acting more like a politician in the debating chamber than one on TV....but she still kicked his ass.

    Grrr, I just hope like hell that Brash doesn't win the election. If his reaction to strong women is to mumble, loose the debate and then try and regain ground the next by acting like an antiquated gentleman, then how is he going to deal with Condoleezza Rice when they enter negotiations about our nuclear free status?

    He needs to learn that you can still be respectful to others without wrapping them in cottonwool. It's almost patronising, the way his desire to be a gentleman overrules his desire to engage with Helen Clark in an equal manner. Women (especially those in parliament) don't need his protection, they him to see them equals.
     
  6. PrincessJewel

    PrincessJewel Member

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    no i dont think he was trying to be a 'gentleman'. me and my boyfriend argue/debate, and he always makes it a point that he nevers raises his voice...however i tend to do that just when i get excited about a particular subject we may be discussing...but anyhow he never does. you don't need to raise your voice while debating. its definitely not a necessity. he was just bullshitting around.
    i would hope the country could recognize what kinda of a bullshitter he is...probably more than likely most of the women do, but sadly probably a lot of men will be stubborn and say that he was not. but i really do not know.
    is new zealand more conservative or liberal? my mother and grandparents lived there a little while years back.
     
  7. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    meh, i think he was being a gentlemen..personal opinion i guess. It is, however, unacceptable to use that as an excuse for losing the debate.

    NZ is one of the most liberal countries in the West.
     
  8. PrincessJewel

    PrincessJewel Member

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    maybe so. it just sounds like a real lame excuse
     

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