Fuck/n Hippies My Arse

Had the land never been taken, I believe we would be living in a much different world. There was an extreme clash of cultures and ideals when the foreigners invaded the lands. Obviously. But it's easily forgotten that most native cultures welcomed the visitors with open arms. They didn't have the pre-conceived notions that the land was theirs. It was their firm belief that it was to be shared by everybody, and as long as it was respected they could co-exist in harmony.

However the visitors, under the guise of Divine Providence believed that god had given them the land, and all they had to do was get rid of its pesky inhabitants to claim it. If they could get their hands on the land, then they could make money and rape the lands of their resources, which the "heathen, un-christian" indians had no desire to do. Thus began the assimilation and erradication of many indigenous cultures, all in the name of Christ. See, basically god = capitalism.

The white men raped the land, taking everything they could get their hands on. The indians, on the other hand, didn't look to the sky for guidance. They actually studied their own environment for that. They had a profound respect for the very thing that gave them life, understanding that when nature was spoiled, then so was their way of life.

Perhaps had the indians not been faced with the invasion of foreigners, we may be living in a world a little less materialistic with more respect for the things around us. The current way (IMO) seems to be do whatever you want with the land, and pray to god. He'll take care of everything. I've yet to see proof of this way of thinking, and witness everyday the spoiling of the land. Our culture has now become one where we evolve with our own technological creations more than with the entity that supports all life. In essence, we may be producing, but it's akin to incest.

It would be nice to believe that had the indians not been wiped away by greedy & religious zealots, that we would be a culture more attuned to the important things, rather than the pursuit of wealth or private possesions. But it's history. And who's to say that their weren't many other people waiting to claim the land even if the English didn't.

(I am in no way arguing FOR paul. It seems asinine to me to profess to be a fighter for a cause, but have absolutely no idea what you're standing for and making bold, ignorant demands. Just wanted to add another 2 cents.)

 

You know the people and their ways .. do you understand the history etc etc .. take some time to think and give a imho answer, i would be intrested ..

we can't defend the atitudes of the time ... your right we do have to question what is right and wrong ... but imho glinging to a land and not intergrating has been a problem..

 

thanks... i am thinking about a repy , just wanted to say thanks

 

to answer philly.to suggest i have no idea what i am standing for.i will say this "i am researching the native american peoples history " .do i need to know everything to have a view?.i am not that nieve to know a wrong was committed on how they were treated "and having their land taken from them by force...........as for making bold ignorant demands.........?.you may see it that way (i dont)..........i am just pissed of that certain leaders of goverments think that they can dictate to and invade other countries and cause world upheavel.....for the sake of monatery gains.........

 

mixing to completly diffrent events and finding some relation within them... then maybe thinking they have anything to do with each other and maybe transposing one situation on another seems wrong to me...

imho its like claiming Mr Bush is a Natzi ? wrong attitude (and a sick one) imho


phillyrp314:

Maybe , but my ignorant logic is that they may have become closed to the outside world.. good visitors welcomed with open arms.. possibly because they shared the same mentality and could gain something from each other (both as bad as each other).

This is my sticking point though , they took guns and shot ? if they had been left alone inter tribal wars would have continued (ok with out guns) ..( i am just saying they took advantage of what was available) if the 'good' indians had overcome then maybe their naivety (jumping to conlusions , sorry) would have left them up the creek with out a paddle by now ?

The world i guess was diffrent now and asuming the 'beliefs' of the 'good' indians would made the world a better place is imho a dream. A nice dream but just a dream.

If the 'bad' indians had won out and taken control would it have made any diffrence..

We may just be blaming the woes of the world on another group of people right now imho.

 

surely there is a relation within them.also dont alotta people think george bush is a nazi?after all adolf hitler became power crazed(different ideas)granted"but still power crazed.

 

Good for you. However, access to knowledge does not insure understanding of the issue. History will only give you accounts of the past. That doesn't come close to comprehension of the current state of affairs. You don't have to know everything to have a view. Just make sure you know what to do with the info you DO have.

I didn't think that this was even in question. There's no doubt that wrongs were committed. I doubt that a single person on here would refute that. However, that's about the only thing you say that you are consisitent with. And hammering the same point over and over again will not justify anything you are trying to convey. You treat this as something that can be corrected and that world governments are just going to say "opps, we were wrong" and then return an entire country back over to cultures that they have already driven to the point of near (if not total) extinction.

Bold and ignorant as in you are unable to grasp the entire picture. You make claims about what should happen. Although I believe that idealism is vital to changing the world for the better, reality is always going to sneak up behind you and bite you in the ass. You so hell bent on shouting your cries of injustice and what ideally should happen to compensate for said injustices that you completely ignore the fact that this is the real world.

Ideally, these things never would have happened. The reality? They did happen and still are. But claiming to turn the nation over back to it's original habitants isn't the answer, even if it were possible. Governments and people of various countries are always going to cause conflicts, sometimes resulting in upheaval. But it's not only just for monetary gains. Sometimes it's religion. Sometimes it may be another factor. Maybe even a combination of several things. Look at history. It's happened for millenia across the entire planet. Even now, within the small parcels of land given to native americans here in the US, there is corruption and greed evident. Sure, they may have Tribal casinos, but it's the same story as the rest of America. There's a few at the very top getting rich, and a plethora at the bottom dirt poor.

So, one man's rantings (you) isn't going to change a damn thing. Especially when you have no grasp on the real issues concerning the issue. These native cultures are trying to focus on their survival and their FUTURE. They are still very much at risk of being assimilated into a homogenized American culture, their ways of life, languages, etc., vanishing into the melting pot.

Trying to justify these things by saying you're pissed off at current administrations accomplishes absolutely nothing and just professes ignorance. Current administrations have been screwing people over for years. Insulting people and calling them hypocrites because of where they live and the history that land contains is just plain dumb. Claiming to be a fighter is pointless when you still haven't a clue as to where the battle is.

For all intents and purposes, I'm not questioning your heart or the feelings inside of it. By all means it seems your intentions are good. But nobody is going to give you a second thought when you are trying tp play the martyr. They are going to see right through you when they realize that you are preaching something you don't fully understand.

 

When I state that it might be a better country, that's in a wide sense. There's always going to be corruption or greed in any culture that's going to lead to undesirable results. The indians weren't strangers to conflict within their own ranks. There were many seperate tribes from coast to coast, and they did have conflicts. However, one of the most common ideals throughout the tribes was that of communal property. Many of them shared the idea that we do not own the land, rather it owns us. IMHO the one thing that is destroying our society today is the want of personal possession. Many indians picked up weapons and fought against the settlers. However, this wasn't because they didn't want to share the land. It was because their lands were being destroyed right before their eyes. Their livelihoods, that were in existence before their forefathers, were being destroyed and decimated in a matter of (relatively speaking) minutes. When the white man came, he didn't just take only what he needed. He tried to take everything he possibly could get his hands on.

The one thing that kept these tribes in existence up til this point was conservation, pure and simple. They knew not to overhunt the lands, lest their food sources would be gone next season and they would starve.

Yes, their were a few tribes with violent tendencies, but they were few and far between. I believe that the fundamental differences in their culture of community and preservation could have possibly led us to less of a materialistic consuming society.

 

firstly philly .i read your last thread with great interest.very informative ty for that .sometimes i like a good rant(seems to lift things off me chest).can you pls explaine to me (as you say)i have/nt a clue to where the battle is>i am intrigued .also as for not fully understanding(believe me )i do understand that the native american indians were wronged.if i believe something injust is happening in the world yeah i will comment on the issue beforereading all off the details .i guess its called intuition.(a inner voice)if yer like.i see certain events unfold (that we are told)are justified"only to find out there not".............FREEDOM OF SPEECH.........

 

You're just grasping for straws. IMO, the last refuge of morons who have absolutely nothing substantial to say always try to defend themselvews with the "Free Speech" defense. Nowhere here has anyone said anything about your right to post your thoughts or intruded on your rights to speak. On the same token, I have the right to state that I think you're an attention whore and idiot, based on your previous posts and the things you've said.

I am through trying to explain things to you. All you are able to do is keep asking for explanations of what people say. Not my fault that you seem to conveniently skip over the parts of the posts where explanations are made. It's impossible to carry on any kind of conversation with someone who stupidly refuses to acknowledge the points made, while repeating the same thing over and over again. The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.

How this thread even came to this, I haven't a clue. Considering the wit and insight you so graciously provided us with in your first post, it's no wonder things have went this far south. Let's take a look at it, shall we?

Wow, enlightening stuff there, eh? I can see where that leads to a discussion on the plight of the indians. You're an idiot. Plain and simple. You can't disguise your ignorance by shoving the topic around. Playing the emotional martyr for something that you haven't a clue about will not work.

It's ok to stand up injustices, but you blatantly use them as ammo against people in an attempt to justify your original post. That's what makes it even the more sickening.

 

Yes many people do say this Paul , but that does not make it true..we don't call our prime minister such names (well i guess some do)..its just like calling a parking attendant a fascist pig.. fundementaly untrue but a good (if crass)giggle...

The majority of people may have been selfish bastards , (well saying that its a complicated history ) but now through shame .. pain or goodheartedness a vast amount of americans do endless amounts of good work.. if the nine inch nail were going to become obsolete .. a group of americans would start a society to save it.

Fundemental diffrences ? I know i don't know as much as yourself .. so i am just going on what i know... the one thing i have learnt while here is that sweet sympathy can be bestowed upon a people and the 'bad guys' in the situation can be more demonised . It is the 'nothing is like it is commonly believed' that would make me dispute some of your ideas and thoughts ...but i am not going to because sometimes its all sadly true ..

kowledge is power the more you know the more you can make a (even if prejudiced ) account seem true. The reason i say that not all indians were saints and were greedy/corrupt etc etc because that was probably true ... the french and the spanish and all before were they 'good' .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/discovery/exploration/americaname_01.shtml
http://www.multied.com/revolt/causes.html
http://www.kidinfo.com/American_History/Birth_of_a_Nation.html

reading pieces from these sources ..its may maybe that 'we' did not know any better and 'they did' not care to know any better just how to survive ?

were did all go wrong ? or was it all just a troubled rocky road to nation that people are bored with now ?.

 

The sad truth is that if the english hadn't taken the land someone else would have. The spansh did a good number on central america themselves. The european attitude, come to think of it, fucked up alot of the world. Eventualy someone would have taken north america...

Why had I heard something about us Americans murdering the English language? I dont know what kind of accent you have but your posts are so garbled I have no idea where to even start trying to make sense of them.

I can see how Bush is taking land in the middle east and what you're attempting to say (I think... cant be too sure though) and it sucks. Its called history, this shit is always going on. Its not right at all but posting incoherent attacks on hippies and satanists and people sleeping on native land isn't going to help anything.

Step one would be to form some kind of coherent idea of what cause you support rather than just throwing all your pet peeves and buzz words into a blender.

Step two would be to stop making dotted lines long enough to sign a signature on.............................................................

Step three is to ditch the accent in the typing. I'm fram bahston but ya dun see me tahking like this.

But good luck to you in whatever it is you're crusading!

 

my opening thread is what i have read on these forums. 1 are you pro or anti war 2 all this hatred between different religions. have we not learnt anything ?.as were the thread has gone(this is were it has leaded to ).you seem to fire questions at me philly ie=i have/nt a clue where the battle is.i have ask you for an answer to this(which you seem to have avoided).as for stating i am an idiot all the time(did a hit a nerve somewhere along the line?)........you certainly talk the talk and have stated some good points .i speak my mind (maybe getting straight to the point).as for saying i use injustices as ammo against people in an attempt to justify my original post and that what makes it even more sickening.yeah course i do .also why does that make it more sickening.? i have noticed some posts on this thread that are some what sickening.not one of you have deplored them.as for having an accent (which i am proud of)by the way.now i am getting slagged off for my accent and you say i am making pointless remarks.as this is my computer i will stick as many lines as i want on it.....................................................................................there ya go................now back to your a idiot/ asshole/and what was the other one fucktard.....comments .....thank you and goodnight

 

how bout....shut up

 

original =clockworkorangeagain . finally watched the film have yer.?

 

finally?
i have read the book a few times and it was yrs ago i saw the film
how bout piss off you lovin, huggin, peaceful hippy (such as how you have displayed in this thread) making yourself to look like a right tosser.
what a free spirit you are paul!

 

thanks for that clockwork.you have managed to write a paragraph(wow)that must of hurt.now get back to snorting whatever you snort and kill the last of those braincells you fuck/n excuse for a human being.unlike you i will always fight to be a free spirit...........................i think god summed it up in one of his threads=robots........................there coming to take me away haha.....funny thing is all this abuse and not many sensible comments from these so called hippies.....it makes you wonder.

 

So am I safe? I'm Italian, Irish, and French CA, and I live on landfill that was thrown in a big pit to build houses on. Dose that mean I can sleep at night? I had a pretty good sleep last night, just wanna be sure I'm safe. I mean, my ancestors had nothing to do witht he forming of the country and the land is more or less man made...

 

you have to becarefull of build up of gases if you live on a landfill site.very iffy (there are times that these gases can build up and explode.) not tryin to alarm you as the risks are miminal.i know a person who lived on one landfill site (his house gradually subsided over the years).just make sure your insurances are up to date .there is also a meter that you can buy that will give you a reading of gases in each room.

 

have just realized that this paranoia thread has gone on for 8 pages(thats alot of paranoia folks)thanks for everyone who has tried to help me and also everyone elsenow i am not parranoid no more............................hope everyone finds peace and love in their hearts........in light